Open PvE

[SiriusSeven]

Hi FD, quick question:

On another thread it was noted that the Kickstarter campaign described multiplayer as follows:

We have the concept of “groups”. They can be private groups just of your friends or open groups (that form part of the game) based on the play styles people prefer, and the rules in each can be different. Players will begin in the group “All” but can change groups at will, though it will be possible to be banned from groups due to antisocial behaviour, and you will only meet others in that group.

This would appear to leave the door open for a sanctioned "Open PvE" mode (Open but with CMDR on CMDR fire disabled). Is this something that you would consider? And if not, how many beers do I have to buy you engineers to change your mind? There are 5000+ likeminded players on Mobius, so I'm guessing you'd be set for a while.


My chief concern is that Mobius has done great work, but if he goes on vacation, retires, or various other real-life issues occur, then the Mobius group is no more (i.e., couldn't continue to grow or to protect itself by issuing bans). It's a scary single point of failure for us PvE folks.... rebuilding the group would be a massive undertaking. Also, I don't think Mobius is known to non-forum goers, so many are perhaps missing out on PvE player interactions.

-- edit --

Mobius now has 6300+ members.

 

[Distance]

I would like for there to be an official pve flag but as it is there is only one mode for ED. The "modes" aren't actually modes they're pvp flags. Solo = no pvp, group is selective and open is any.

 

[SiriusSeven]

I would like for there to be an official pve flag but as it is there is only one mode for ED. The "modes" aren't actually modes they're pvp flags. Solo = no pvp, group is selective and open is any.

A flag would suit me just fine. But I disagree that the modes == flags. The modes are rather solitary at the moment, and PvE doesn't have to be. Also, the rules in groups are by convention and player agreement only. (i.e., you could technically grief in Mobius)

-- edit --

I mean a matchmaking flag, not a PvP-off while in Open flag. PvE and PvP players should not interfere or interact with one another.

 

[Antmax]

If there was an open PvE mode. I wonder how many would use it?

I know I would, I might even forego mode switching and lock myself in. I'd probably still like it to have PvP in conflict zones like Mobius does. It's pretty much what I wanted all along, except I was ok with the intended PvP primarily in anarchy space like the game was originally peddled as.

 

[SlickReed]

Good idea, like other games I think this would rid the game of the PVP only crowd complaints about not everyone wanting to play their way.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I would like for there to be an official pve flag but as it is there is only one mode for ED. The "modes" aren't actually modes they're pvp flags. Solo = no pvp, group is selective and open is any.

The modes are also: solo = solo; group = selective membership; open = anyone who wants to play.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

The "modes" aren't actually modes they're pvp flags. Solo = no pvp, group is selective and open is any.

The modes are also: solo = solo; group = selective membership; open = anyone who wants to play.

Modes IMO are part of the matchmaking algorithm and most likely are just flags. At a guess it will be an X bit number, for example:

• 0 - open
• 1 - solo
• n - group ID number (Eg: Mobius could be 3, Liqua could be 4, etc)

When you fly near another commander your matchmaking group flag is compared and if they agree then it continues with the match making rules (like instance limits / ignore / etc)

PvP at this moment in time is not considered and sadly nor is PvE preference.

 

[Panther]

Good idea, like other games I think this would rid the game of the PVP only crowd complaints about not everyone wanting to play their way.

This would not get rid of the PVP only crowd, we who prefer PVE and CO-OP with maybe the odd bit of PVP in conflict zones still get insulted and looked down on by some PVP'ers because we do not wish to play their way.

Good idea though OP and one I definately support. If this was implemented with player v player fire disabled (except for conflict zones) I would play 100% open PVE mode.

 

[SiriusSeven]

Modes IMO are part of the matchmaking algorithm and most likely are just flags. At a guess it will be an X bit number, for example:

• 0 - open
• 1 - solo
• n - group ID number (Eg: Mobius could be 3, Liqua could be 4, etc)

When you fly near another commander your matchmaking group flag is compared and if they agree then it continues with the match making rules (like instance limits / ignore / etc)

PvP at this moment in time is not considered and sadly nor is PvE preference.

Yes. I completely agree. And as an engineer I can see why this sounded like an elegant solution at the time (and maybe still does)... just knobs to turn on a common mechanism.

Unfortunately, it didn't result in the most elegant PvE. Mobius group is a kludge. (No offence to Mobius, he is great! and I appreciate what he did)

 

[Distance]

A flag would suit me just fine. But I disagree that the modes == flags. The modes are rather solitary at the moment, and PvE doesn't have to be.

You can disagree but it's the way the game works unfortunately.

Sandro's description (Grouping mechanics under the Griefing section):

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=7261&page=3&p=147803#post147803

This is why all competitions are in open, it's FD's vision for the game and you choose to opt of of pvp by choosing solo or group. This wouldn't be a problem if they had meaningful punishments for murder but that is for a different discussion

The reason why mobius works is because it's on an honour basis. There's obviously no easy way for FD to implement a pve mode with other players with the current game mechanics or they would have done already and removed the majority of arguments between players from day one.

There's only one mode to ED and the problems that have arisen are because FD labelled the flags as modes and gave players the illusion that they were playing in different gametype. If they hadn't they'd have a ton of angry posts demanding a true solo mode and probably even more noise from the offline crowd. It's possible that this is just an oversight on their part with the naming but my point and the way the game mechanics work still stands.

Whilst I'm primarily an open player I'm not fussed about the mode switching except in the even of community goals as in Lugh (blockades etc).

I'd personally be happy for them to implement a true pve flag/mode so I agree with your OP. I'm just explaining the system and how it works, not opposing you.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

The reason why mobius works is because it's on an honour basis. There's obviously no easy way for FD to implement a pve mode with other players with the current game mechanics or they would have done already and removed the majority of arguments between players from day one.

Quite - the only way to implement a true PvE mode would be to disable friendly fire.

It's also like the arguments surrounding Ironman - that's yet another "flag" selected at character creation but sadly FD have shelved that mode.

 

[SiriusSeven]

There's obviously no easy way for FD to implement a pve mode with other players with the current game mechanics or they would have done already and removed the majority of arguments between players from day one.

Here's where we disagree again Sorry.

They could very easily set weapons damage to 0 on PvP, and with slightly more work improve piracy on NPC ships (declare piracy command, with a risk/reward die roll for NPCs running, fighting, or dropping cargo).

-- edit --

Heck, I suspect that all modes of play (Solo, Group and Open) would benefit from some of the necessary mechanics for Open PvE.... like improved piracy on NPC ships.

 

[DarkWalker]

One implementation that was discussed in the past (I believe by Frontier, even) was to have a mode where committing certain crimes against another player would result in an automated ban from that mode. So, instead of setting the damage against other players to 0, a player that killed another player would be kicked out of the mode, perhaps permanently.

There was also talk about players being able to disable that protection voluntarily; kinda like a PvP flag, if you will.

 

[SiriusSeven]

One implementation that was discussed in the past (I believe by Frontier, even) was to have a mode where committing certain crimes against another player would result in an automated ban from that mode. So, instead of setting the damage against other players to 0, a player that killed another player would be kicked out of the mode, perhaps permanently.

There was also talk about players being able to disable that protection voluntarily; kinda like a PvP flag, if you will.

That also sounds cool... Though permanent is a little harsh

the flag sounds like (and could even be) "report crimes", which we already have...

 

[Distance]

Here's where we disagree again Sorry.

They could very easily set weapons damage to 0 on PvP, and with slightly more work improve piracy on NPC ships (declare piracy command, with a risk/reward die roll for NPCs running, fighting, or dropping cargo).

They can't even get friendly fire to work consistently, can you imagine the fall out from players setting their weapons damage to 0 and being shot up when they thought they were safe?

I personally can't believe that FD haven't tried to implement a proper pve mode since it's been asked for since kickstarter. There's only two options, they tried and failed or they really couldn't careless about people playing the other "modes".

As an optimist I plump for the "tried and failed" option. I believe that if they had said they tried and failed then people would be kicking off on every update for them not implementing it or getting it working. Instead we have the current "mode flags", the majority of the player base is none the wiser to how the game mechanics work and players are too busy arguing about open vs solo when in reality there's no such thing.

 

[Darth Ender]

they probably dont have a "weapons do no damage to other players" option because it would be ridiculous gameplay and stupid looking. IE. introduces magic in the game to hand-wave away damage based on whether or not the victim is a human player. No.

The current system for players who dont want pvp is perfectly functional. If you follow the rules, you're fine and you dont have to introduce magic. Break the rules and the group kicks you out. Problem solved.

 

[SiriusSeven]

they probably dont have a "weapons do no damage to other players" option because it would be ridiculous gameplay and stupid looking. IE. introduces magic in the game to hand-wave away damage based on whether or not the victim is a human player. No.

The current system for players who dont want pvp is perfectly functional. If you follow the rules, you're fine and you dont have to introduce magic. Break the rules and the group kicks you out. Problem solved.

In Star Trek, the Borg shields adapt and are impervious to the Federation's weapons. It's not that silly. We are all part of the Pilot's Federation. Just add to the lore that Pilot Federation weapons cannot damage Pilot Federation shields. Think of it like an evolution of existing IFF (identification friend or foe) military technologies.

As for the status quo being fine, I think the poop will hit the fan when Mobius (the player) is away and can't admin the group. It's a lot to ask of, and a huge responsibility for a player. Also, it will never be as large as it could be, thus impoverishing PvE players from player interactions (e.g., co-operative wings). Mobius is only 1% of the present player population, but I suspect many more are interested.

 

[smiths121]

Hi All,

here are PvP players that just will not let that happen. Look at the thread about the graphics card. Its a competition to win something and look its gone PvP.
You can currently do Open PvE, just ignore rare runs and community goals ... oooh and the start area.

Simon

 

[obliterator]

This would only divide the player base even more. Pve would get every solo players plus a tiny part of the current open population. This would lead to a slippery slope effect, as the "pvp-neutral" population would simply migrate to whatever mode is the more populated. There would be less and less people in the pvp mode, and it would eventually become a ghost town. Then the "pro pvp population" would be forced to go pve in order to be able to play with others. I don't know if some of you guys played Ultima online back in the days, but the exact same thing happened and it kind of completely ruined the game for many people.

Some of you guys say that you don't want to be forced into pvp. But a pve mode would force most players into pve in a way. I'm not really a huge pvp player, but I like the risk. If they make a pve mode, that risk is simply gone.

 

[SiriusSeven]

This would only divide the player base even more. Pve would get every solo players plus maybe about half of the current open population. This would lead to a slippery slope effect, as the more populated mode would attract everyone who aren't into pvp but aren't against it either. There would be less and less people in the pvp mode, and it would eventually become a ghost town. Then the "pvp population" would be forced to go pve in order to be able to play with others. I don't know if some of you guys played Ultima online back in the days, but the exact same thing happened and it kind of completely ruined the game for many people.

Some of you guys say that you don't want to be forced into pvp. But a pve mode would force most players into pve in a way. I'm not really a pvp player, but I like the risk. If they make a pve mode, that risk is simply gone.

The risk is already gone with mode switching.

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Hi All,

here are PvP players that just will not let that happen. Look at the thread about the graphics card. Its a competition to win something and look its gone PvP.
You can currently do Open PvE, just ignore rare runs and community goals ... oooh and the start area.

Simon

And story elements (roaming station, capital ships etc)
And new memorial stations
And capital systems
And the founders world
...
And everywhere there are people -- defeating the idea of a social PvE mode... which is what I was requesting