Right, a flag in Open is not the most elegant solution.
That's why my preference is a separate mode, similar to (and encompassing) mobius group.
And, if I had my way, we would have multiple CMDRs, but no more switching.
Open PvE
- Thread starter SiriusSeven
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Right, a flag in Open is not the most elegant solution.
That's why my preference is a separate mode, similar to (and encompassing) mobius group.
And, if I had my way, we would have multiple CMDRs, but no more switching.
Lol saying a flag system wouldn't work is silly as we currently have the flag system it's just the flags are called modes. As explained before there's only one mode to ED and you set the solo or group flag if you don't want to encounter players.
All they'd need to do is add another flag to the match making to only match other players for pve. The tricky part would be weapons damage and ramming. There's no way to detect malicious ramming so that would always be able to be used as an exploit in the "mode". Because the game is one mode with flags adding "no shooting players code" to the proposed "pve flag" would be a ballache as that code isn't used anywhere else in the game. The current modes/flags work because it's a simple on/off to the match making system.
The reason why mobius works is because everyone agrees on the rules, it would be harder to police a pve mode with a large player base without extensive work on a new game mechanic.
All they'd need to do is add another flag to the match making to only match other players for pve. The tricky part would be weapons damage and ramming. There's no way to detect malicious ramming so that would always be able to be used as an exploit in the "mode". Because the game is one mode with flags adding "no shooting players code" to the proposed "pve flag" would be a ballache as that code isn't used anywhere else in the game. The current modes/flags work because it's a simple on/off to the match making system.
The reason why mobius works is because everyone agrees on the rules, it would be harder to police a pve mode with a large player base without extensive work on a new game mechanic.
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I think the fundamental diferrence here is that Simi's flag implies that PvP and PvE players can see each other, interact with each other, and maybe even taunt each other by toggling the flag on and off (bad idea).
Your flag is a matchmaking 'group by' key, and would prevent PvP and PvE from interacting (which is what we have)
Same word 'flag', but very different gameplay
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Personally I don't care either way, as long as,
1. I don't have to see players with the pve flag only, and
2. It's not possible to change to PvE midgame, so as to not have people switch when they get attacked or interdicted.
If those are met I don't care how it's done. It could be in open, it could be it's own seperate mode, doesn't effect me.
1. I don't have to see players with the pve flag only, and
2. It's not possible to change to PvE midgame, so as to not have people switch when they get attacked or interdicted.
If those are met I don't care how it's done. It could be in open, it could be it's own seperate mode, doesn't effect me.
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I don't believe they would even have pve and pvp flagged together in the same matchmaking instance that would be totally gamebreaking. I don't think anyone is actually asking for that and if they are then they haven't really thought it through.
The only way to implement it properly would be to flag it as it's own "mode" like solo/group and only match players together with the same flag, pretty much an official mobius. I'm sure this is what the majority of players are asking for.
As described before, they could probably do this with one update and minimal work tomorrow BUT regards to my previous post it would be an honour system and quickly decend to anarchy without major work on the "no damage for pvp weapons fire" and then you'll always have the problem of ramming.
That's pretty much why I'm sure they haven't done it already and left it up to players to manage via the current group system.
The only way to implement it properly would be to flag it as it's own "mode" like solo/group and only match players together with the same flag, pretty much an official mobius. I'm sure this is what the majority of players are asking for.
As described before, they could probably do this with one update and minimal work tomorrow BUT regards to my previous post it would be an honour system and quickly decend to anarchy without major work on the "no damage for pvp weapons fire" and then you'll always have the problem of ramming.
That's pretty much why I'm sure they haven't done it already and left it up to players to manage via the current group system.
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Yes. Exactly.
And I agree that ramming is the biggest challenge. When you put people together, there will always be a way to grief... Often even in PvE. For example, in Ultima Online, I used to tame dragons and release them in the Newbie zone, dropped trapped boxes in town, and opened portals in the doorways to banks (high traffic paths) that lead to dangerous places. I spent some time in UO jail. In Tribes I used to deploy vehicles inside my base, and blow them up because the vehicle splash damage wasn't considered friendly fire... I got booted from Tribes servers. (Yes, I was 15 once)
The game needs other mechanics and politics to deal with it. I think they could detect algorithmically when a single player is involved in a number of Player on Player collision deaths, and after 2 or 3 issue a 72 hour ban from that mode.
However, just like mobius, people joining an official PvE mode will tend to be likeminded -- except for the griefers. (And I hate that word, but people managing PvP in PvE qualify I think).
And I agree that ramming is the biggest challenge. When you put people together, there will always be a way to grief... Often even in PvE. For example, in Ultima Online, I used to tame dragons and release them in the Newbie zone, dropped trapped boxes in town, and opened portals in the doorways to banks (high traffic paths) that lead to dangerous places. I spent some time in UO jail. In Tribes I used to deploy vehicles inside my base, and blow them up because the vehicle splash damage wasn't considered friendly fire... I got booted from Tribes servers. (Yes, I was 15 once)
The game needs other mechanics and politics to deal with it. I think they could detect algorithmically when a single player is involved in a number of Player on Player collision deaths, and after 2 or 3 issue a 72 hour ban from that mode.
However, just like mobius, people joining an official PvE mode will tend to be likeminded -- except for the griefers. (And I hate that word, but people managing PvP in PvE qualify I think).
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No, open = anyone who wants to play adversarial PvP, not 'anyone' which would include commanders who want to play co-op.
Ah I misunderstood. 0 damage for player damage would be easy enough to do. People will still interdict and then ram player. So that will have to be patched as well.
And you just invented a new form of griefing - kamikaze griefing. Basically players in cheap, small ships intentionally suiciding by ramming bigger ships. Since there really is no way to detect player intent, from a purely data-centric perspective, it is the bigger ship who did the killing.
Presto, a way to impose 72 hour bans on PvE players who were just minding their own business.
I would love an Open PVE mode. But I play in Mobius instead. The best we have.
Agree that Open PVE should mix with current Open. It would break immersion. A PVP tries to attack a PVE player an does no damage.. just breaks the game.
I'm sure it could be done via MatchMaker though pretty simple - like people suggested - its just another matching mode - like all modes today.
Just not interested in PVP one bit - far more interested in co-op play.
Agree that Open PVE should mix with current Open. It would break immersion. A PVP tries to attack a PVE player an does no damage.. just breaks the game.
I'm sure it could be done via MatchMaker though pretty simple - like people suggested - its just another matching mode - like all modes today.
Just not interested in PVP one bit - far more interested in co-op play.
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You can play co-op in Open. You can also play solo in Open. Nobody is forcing you to PvP and it's easy enough to avoid. So Open mode is far from "adversarial PvP" only.
Yes. I know. (I edited my post to list all the clever ways I griefed games when I was 15).
I think you will never get rid of griefing. Griefing is the cost of multiplayer. It's the cost of being social. And that's too bad.
But, I think that in Open PvE you would have PvE players and Griefers, rather than PvE players, PvP players, Griefers... And that's an improvement for my chosen playstyle.
Try saying that when you get attacked by some CMDR. That is not optional.
"But you don't have to play in highly populated areas" you say. But why should places be avoided? If PVE is popular enough then its something FD should look into.
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Your statemant is nonsense, piracy is adversarial forced PvP.
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More nonsense, a PvP flag removes griefing and enables being social.
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You'd think so, but it really isn't. Griefers hate PvP as much as PvE players do. They don't want heavily armed and skilled players around because those tend to pop their ships. They want to be left alone with their favorite prey, the inexperienced PvE players. And that's exactly what you would give them, sans the option groups like Mobius have, namely to ban them from the group. It would be a magnet for griefers. Going on a safari to carebear land? No "game keepers" to worry about? Perfect.
What you want is for groups like Mobius to get more administrative options. Self-administration is the only way to keep a game clean of players who don't fit it.
I like the idea in general, though am not overly keen on not physically being able to fire on other CMDRs outside of conflict zones. I understand that it'd be very hard to police otherwise, but something I like about Mobius is the code of honour between pilots. You know that all CMDRs have the option of attack, but the code of the PF (in Mobius) forbids them from doing so, along of course with their own sense of honour. You do get the odd rogue pilot (it's extremely rare AFAIK), but that only makes it more exciting, as though you can be pretty sure a CMDR won't attack, you can never say so with absolute certainty.
Everyone's got their own way of playing the game; I personally like to role-play and take it fairly seriously, thus getting repeatedly blatted by CMDRs in Open (particularly griefers) would kind of break my immersion in the game-world and thus lessen my experience. It wouldn't matter if I was coming out on top in most of the encounters either, death (or rather ship destruction/ejecting) is a big deal in my Elite universe, but means nothing/very little to those not role-playing who just enjoy racking up kills in their Vultures, F-d-Ls and 'Condas (which they may well have financed though Solo grinding anyway) without any real/believable consequences for their actions (in terms of game-play penalties for murder/ship destruction). FYI - I'm not against competitive MP in general in games, just some I prefer to play more as a sport (Q3-style) or in a mil-sim manner, whereas others, particularly those with a persistent player-character and universe, more as a serious RP.
That's why I like Mobius; it allows for plenty of interaction with other CMDRs (I often see loads of them when I play) and PvP combat in CZs. Sure it's not as 'dangerous' as Open Play, but it seems more like others are playing the game the same way I am, i.e. in a world where destroying another CMDR's ship isn't just a small fine and frequent destruction of one's own vessel means very little. Basically it just delivers (for me) a more consistent and believable universe. Of course some would find this as dull as dishwater; luckily we have choices
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Everyone's got their own way of playing the game; I personally like to role-play and take it fairly seriously, thus getting repeatedly blatted by CMDRs in Open (particularly griefers) would kind of break my immersion in the game-world and thus lessen my experience. It wouldn't matter if I was coming out on top in most of the encounters either, death (or rather ship destruction/ejecting) is a big deal in my Elite universe, but means nothing/very little to those not role-playing who just enjoy racking up kills in their Vultures, F-d-Ls and 'Condas (which they may well have financed though Solo grinding anyway) without any real/believable consequences for their actions (in terms of game-play penalties for murder/ship destruction). FYI - I'm not against competitive MP in general in games, just some I prefer to play more as a sport (Q3-style) or in a mil-sim manner, whereas others, particularly those with a persistent player-character and universe, more as a serious RP.
That's why I like Mobius; it allows for plenty of interaction with other CMDRs (I often see loads of them when I play) and PvP combat in CZs. Sure it's not as 'dangerous' as Open Play, but it seems more like others are playing the game the same way I am, i.e. in a world where destroying another CMDR's ship isn't just a small fine and frequent destruction of one's own vessel means very little. Basically it just delivers (for me) a more consistent and believable universe. Of course some would find this as dull as dishwater; luckily we have choices
.Because they're dangerous? Not like you HAVE to go there. It's an option. Since Premium Beta I've been playing exclusively in Open and have been killed by players exactly zero times, and I do hang out in hotspots. Not doing silly stuff like taking a T7 to Lave, but again, PvP is easy to avoid in Open.
PvP in Open is a choice. Whether you make that choice by seeking a target or by being a really easy and attractive one, is up to the player.
You misunderstand I think. I am the OP. I want a PvP flag or PvE mode.
But, I am not naive. If you put people together, even in PvE co-op, some people will arrange circumstances to kill other players (Leeroy Jenkins!!!!!) . To think otherwise is to make the same mistake FD did when they said PvP would be rare and meaningful.
I just think that having one sanctioned place for PvE players, together with simple things like 0 friendly fire, would be a vast improvement to what we have now (the Mobius kludge [no offence to Mobius]). And yes, you can grief there too.
So to sum it up :
- Flag to set pve only
- Mechanics to remove pvp weapons damage under players flagged pve (outside of conflict zones)
- Possible look at the ramming mechanics (I personally think this would have to be dealt with via the reporting system the way combat logging currently is)
I'm pretty sure all players regardless of their stance on pvp could get behind this.
The only problem I can see with adding another mode/flag would be the impact on war like (Lugh style) community goals. I personally believe that's a different discussion to be had in a different thread as that tends to sway more to the open vs solo debate.
- Flag to set pve only
- Mechanics to remove pvp weapons damage under players flagged pve (outside of conflict zones)
- Possible look at the ramming mechanics (I personally think this would have to be dealt with via the reporting system the way combat logging currently is)
I'm pretty sure all players regardless of their stance on pvp could get behind this.
The only problem I can see with adding another mode/flag would be the impact on war like (Lugh style) community goals. I personally believe that's a different discussion to be had in a different thread as that tends to sway more to the open vs solo debate.
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