Overpowered NPCs?

Cageman

Cageman
Spork said:
Did you have no pips in systems or something?

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=138536
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2 on sys, 4 on engine, 0 on weapons. Reason is, full power to engine to boost, boost, boost, wait for FSD cooldown (10 seconds) and then FSD the hell out, boosting while FSD i charging (yes, I get heatdamage but not that severe that it is beyond repair). This has worked very well the the 1.5 years or so I've played this game, especially on NPCs.

I have been in some rough spots, loosing shields, loosing health on the hull, but this was usually due to being masslocked, but boosting allowed me to finaly escape those rough situations... with a lot of damage, but I had a fighting chance...

This one was totally unique. I was not masslocked, and as soon as the NPC started shooting, it was over in 4-6 seconds in total.

In any case... I will make sure to have Shadowplay enabled in the future, so I can get video evidence if it happens again. ;)

Here is what I have outfitted in my Type 7

Power plant: A4 (1.6M)
Thrusters: A5 (5.1M)
Power distributor: A3 (158k) <--- Looking for a better one, if it exist. This one, though, allows me to boost a lot.
Shield generator: A4 (1.6M) <--- There might be better ones to find though?
 

Zeta Legion

Z
No, NPCs do not get a damage bonus.

The T-7 is made of tinfoil held together with a ball of twine. It's one of the most fragile ships in the game.
 

TheGrimCorsair

T
Zeta Legion said:
No, NPCs do not get a damage bonus.

The T-7 is made of tinfoil held together with a ball of twine. It's one of the most fragile ships in the game.
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A tissue box with boosters. When I'm out raiding in the iCourier they're the only large ship I don't go straight for the power core on as, usually, I can tear them apart with brute force.

OP, if you're going for shields, make sure you equip shield boosters to go with, and then make sure you're flying around with 4 Pips in SYS and 2 in ENG anytime you're not landing somewhere. The moment you hear the interdiction alarm zero your throttle to submit, then wait out the short cooldown. Don't boost or throttle up! The AI will (if it's a pirate) give you a few moments before opening fire, long enough for you to choose a different system from the nav menu and for your FSD to cool off. Point yourself at your new destination, boost and throttle up as your FSD spools up, then take a breather on the other side. The Type-7's mass lock factor is pretty low for a ship of its size, so don't get in the habit of relying on jumping back to supercruise to save you.

With 4 small hardpoints and a Class 3 PD you outgun the Eagle, Sidewinder, Hauler, and Type-6 (maybe also the Adder with is class 2 PD) while coming up short against, quite literally, every other ship in the game, and imho, would be wasting power and jump range if you bothered fitting weapons.
 

paulca

P
Reminds me of Elite Frontier, doing the Animal Skins smuggling trade run and your'd get the "WHOOP WHOOP WHOOP" and drop to normal times time to see a white target. White meant something big and nasty like an Imperial Courier... so you waited to see if it was a red or yellow beam or pulse laser and suddenly see the bright white wand of death from a 1.5MW plasma accelerator (or whatever it was called) sweep across the heavens for you... ESC ... reload save game.

No save games in ED though.
 

Cageman

Cageman
TheGrimCorsair said:
A tissue box with boosters. When I'm out raiding in the iCourier they're the only large ship I don't go straight for the power core on as, usually, I can tear them apart with brute force.
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I absolutely agree. It is a weak ship in many ways, but at the same time, I would expect the game to be balanced in Solo Play. Hopefully this was a one in a million, because with an NPC like that, there is nothing you can do. Nothing. Zip... silch... and that is something I expect in Open Play, not Solo.

OP, if you're going for shields, make sure you equip shield boosters to go with, and then make sure you're flying around with 4 Pips in SYS and 2 in ENG anytime you're not landing somewhere.
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Yeah... I didn't know that the shields would be better if you set SYS to 4 instead of 2. The reason is simple; the graphical feedback doesn't show it. If you boost with the engine, you see a visual feedback on that energy is lowered. Same thing with weapons, especially energy weapons. When shields are hit, you do not see that feedback.

With 4 small hardpoints and a Class 3 PD you outgun the Eagle, Sidewinder, Hauler, and Type-6 (maybe also the Adder with is class 2 PD) while coming up short against, quite literally, every other ship in the game, and imho, would be wasting power and jump range if you bothered fitting weapons.
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Did that some time ago and it worked well. Collected a whole slew of bounties in the process. But... fighting in a Type 7 feels like using a car as a blanket... :D
 

parry

parry
Mai Azuka said:
Unshielded ships... God that bothers me. This game is called Elite Dangerous.
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I fly unshielded traders in open.

Face it, if I get interdicted by another player, no amount of shield is going to save me, let alone keep me alive long enough to high-wake out.
 

Cageman

Cageman
I also want to add this...

I have lost ships and cargo to NPCs before... Maybe I should have made that clear in the beginning... But that was, usually, after minutes of struggle. Either I tried to fight back (this was when I was in a Type 6 btw) and failed, or simply having the NPC indirect me 2-3 times in the same system that finaly led to loosing ship + cargo (I know that it is better to jump to another system in such cases), but then again, I need fuel to jump and in those occasions I would have ended up stranded in that other system, if I'm unlucky.

The thing with the fuel... I tend to optimize the fueltank to cover the distances I need to travel in a route. Again, it is a gamble; I get lighter, but, if I need to do the extra jump I am doomed...well, until Fuel Rats came about at least. This is a tactical thing that can backfire... but it all boiles down to the choices I make...

But in all those occassions it was not matter of seconds, it was a matter of minutes, and it was very clear to me that the choices I made when I lost ships and cargo were mine and I screwed up.

It is a fair challenge. It is balanced.

If Solo play can spawn NPCs that are designed to challenge a wing of players, or take out a ship in seconds, Solo play is not balanced. The NPCs therefore become OP.

In Open play, I can insist on playing alone, but with that comes a high risk. In Solo play, I can only play alone, and therefore, things needs to be balanced for that.

I see two solutions for this:

1) Make sure Solo play doesn't have OP NPCs
2) Add a feature that allows a Commander to hire wingmen (both in Solo as well as Open).

Having worked (and still working) in the games industry for almost 10 years now, including titles such as World In Conflict, World In Conflict: Soviet Assault, Far Cry 3, Assassin's Creed and the upcomming The Division, I do know how important balancing is; and... how hard it is as well.

Bottom line is: When something in a game makes a player unhappy, irritated and extremely frustrated, something is wrong. Period.

If the game can make loosing a lot, but still put a smile on the player face, it is done right.

Yesterday was the first time I experienced this with Elite Dangerous: unhappy, irritated and extremely frustrated

Previous losses I experienced was this: with a smile on my face, even though a bit irritated at my own foolish choices I did during those 3-6 minutes of epic failure in battle or escape.

I hope that this post will allow people to understand my position better.
 
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SirAdelaide

SirAdelaide
It is a life lesson. We need those in games.

You had the credits for insurance, and you will reach whatever arbitrary credit goal you are going for on about the same day you would have previously. You now have a reason to want to upgrade to a Clipper or Python, and so a few more interesting choices await. No real harm, and the game is more interesting now as you'll be on the edge of the seat wondering about the next NPC. Sounds like a win to me.
 
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Cageman

Cageman
SirAdelaide said:
It is a life lesson. We need those in games.

You had the credits for insurance, and you will reach whatever arbitrary credit goal you are going for on about the same day you would have previously. You now have a reason to want to upgrade to a Clipper or Python, and so a few more interesting choices await. No real harm, and the game is more interesting now as you'll be on the edge of the seat wondering about the next NPC. Sounds like a win to me.
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Not really. In Solo play I expect balance. Read my last statement if you, for some reason, did not.
 

GluttonyFang

GluttonyFang
Cagman said:
I have no idea of what you just said... layman terms, please. :)
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.-.

It's not the NPC being over powered, it's the players not being skilled enough and know how to properly defend themselves .-.

NPCs are nowhere near powerful enough to be a real threat, even to trading ships.

I look forward to the developers working in the AI department to make NPCs much more competent than they currently are.
 

bkrownd

B
GluttonyFang said:
.-.

It's not the NPC being over powered, it's the players not being skilled enough and know how to properly defend themselves .-.

NPCs are nowhere near powerful enough to be a real threat, even to trading ships.

I look forward to the developers working in the AI department to make NPCs much more competent than they currently are.
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If you make the game too brutal people who aren't here for pew pew will just stop playing. You can look down on the other players all you want, but we all payed the same $ hoping for a fun experience. Maybe most don't measure up to your standards, but it isn't you they're trying to please. I get blown up occasionally. It isn't "exciting" or "fun". It's simply disappointing, most of all because it involves rehashing several hours (or days or weeks) of effort. If the credits-per-hour gets too difficult, and the disappointments too frequent, many will find something more rewarding to do with their time. (choices certainly aren't lacking)
 
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GluttonyFang

GluttonyFang
bkrownd said:
If you make the game too brutal people who aren't here for pew pew will just stop playing. You can look down on the other players all you want, but we all payed the same $ hoping for a fun experience. Maybe most don't measure up to your standards, but it isn't you they're trying to please. I get blown up occasionally. It isn't "exciting" or "fun". It's simply disappointing, most of all because it involves rehashing several hours (or days or weeks) of effort. If the credits-per-hour gets too difficult many will find something more rewarding to do with their time. (choices certainly aren't lacking)
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Ah, it's the inevitable strawman of the thread.

First of all, this game's combat system against NPC is beyond easy. No NPC actually utilize chaff 100% of the time nor silent run to make any player need to use anything other than gimballed weapons.

Second of all, Robigo is like an infinite bank for players to withdraw money from infinitely. It's much easier than what people makes it to be, and the amount of money it makes can make a person get into a Conda within 24 hours.

Come question me again once you've dropped your attitude and gained relevant experience/credential, otherwise don't bother trying to derail the thread.
 

Fendalton

Fendalton
I wouldn't say overpowered, but I was close once:

(Skip to 29 seconds, was watching a Keyori Video which I mute at 29 seconds)

[video=youtube;chB2-bYCOm0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chB2-bYCOm0&t=29s[/video]
 
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