Partial FA, or different FA levels?

[dxm55]

Another one which I think might have been floated some time, somewhere before...

Have FDevs ever considered putting FA on a slider bar? Maybe 2 or 3 diff levels of FAs, instead of the full on, full off toggle we have now?

Full on = What we have now. Full off = Also what we have now, full newtonian, with no pitch, roll, yaw correction
A partial FA mode could mean newtonian motion, but with roll, yaw, pitch correction.

Or it could be on a new panel where the pilot can actually select which ones he wants turned off or on?

Some people are experts and do well in FA. It's also easier done on a HOTAS.
Mouse and keyboard players like myself just spin out all over the place, since that good ol' mouse always seems to float all over the place.

I'm pretty sure it's not difficult for FDev to include this feature.

 

[domingo]

Before I started learning FA-off, I'd agree with you - to have Flight Assist only for rotation but not movement.

However now I think it is in fact easier to keep reticule on the target with FA/off than FA/on. You just have to match your rotation to the apparent angular velocity of the target ... mathematically speaking ;-)
With correctly set relative mouse it is easy.

And I am mouse & keyboard here ...
But what I would really welcome is the separate Mouse Controls for FA/off.

 

[Guest193293]

FA OFF is not so much about what do you have to flight but more about when it 'click', to quote Moxen Wolf:

"Your brain need to detach itself from the idea that you are going the direction you are pointed, most of time you are in fact not going the direction you are pointed in FA OFF, once you get that to a natural state in your mind everything will connect. You'll notice that your piloting skill with FA OFF will increase, you'll be able to land a lot faster, you'll be able to battle a lot more efficiently and you'll just have a lot better time when you're in FA OFF, it will come more natural to you, you won't be thinking about it as much as you would."

Also, being able to look around while flying really help to assimilate the fact that what's in front of you is most of the time not your vector, not the direction you are going. It will also help your mind to become adapted to the lateral/vertical thrusters adjustment, it will become way more natural and normal.

 

[dxm55]

FA OFF is not so much about what do you have to flight but more about when it 'click', to quote Moxen Wolf:

Also, being able to look around while flying really help to assimilate the fact that what's in front of you is most of the time not your vector, not the direction you are going. It will also help your mind to become adapted to the lateral/vertical thrusters adjustment, it will become way more natural and normal.

I don't worry about vector vs facing.
I can handle that part well. Even on FA-on, I use all 6 degree of motion to fly. And I toggle FA on/off to maneuver in combat.

My mouse is set for pitch/yaw.
I have a Nostromo pad, where the WSAD is est for throttle up/down, and roll.
Then the thumb-pad on that Nostromo is set for strafing up/down/left/right.

The reason I want roll/pitch/yaw stabilization is primarily because unlike a self centering joystick, mouse users have to keep that mouse cursor adjusted all the time on the screen. It puts the additional task of having us, the player, keep an eye on that mouse cursor's position relative to bore, to control the ship's inertia. Very distracting. Hence I can only use FA-off in bursts.

 

[domingo]

The reason I want roll/pitch/yaw stabilization is primarily because unlike a self centering joystick, mouse users have to keep that mouse cursor adjusted all the time on the screen. It puts the additional task of having us, the player, keep an eye on that mouse cursor's position relative to bore, to control the ship's inertia. Very distracting. Hence I can only use FA-off in bursts.

Did you tried enabling "Relative Mouse" and tweaked "Relative Mouse Rate" ? These settings somewhat simulate self-centering.

However when you set the RMR quite high, the FA/on or SC handing becomes PITA.
It is so bad that most FA/off players that use K&M have keyboard bindings for SC flight ...

That's why I long for separate FA/off mouse settings ...

 

[Robert Maynard]

Mike Evans commented on the all or nothing approach to FA-OFF quite some time ago:

Design by choice, a very old one in fact. There's plenty of stuff in the forums about it if your search fu is strong. Basically I wanted FAOff to be artificially difficult.

 

[Sea_Kerman]

We could get something like this using a script that pulls the telemetry fir those 6DOF motion sim platforms, then feeds it through PID back into the joystick.

 

[Robert Maynard]

We could get something like this using a script that pulls the telemetry fir those 6DOF motion sim platforms, then feeds it through PID back into the joystick.

Which would be memory scraping and automation - likely resulting in a ban under the EULA, if detectable.

 

[Sea_Kerman]

I would argue that it isn’t automation. It would do nothing without player input, and it’s stabilization would likely be even worse than regular flight-assist.

 

[Ian Skippy]

A partial FA mode could mean newtonian motion, but with roll, yaw, pitch correction.

That kinda sounds a bit like how Evochron does it, and it is much easier to grok I'd say. It always would mean there isnt much point to FA off, from a performance POV partial FA off would be the best of both worlds.

 

[Lestat]

Maybe what you should do is look at tutorials of AF. When they are flying around a rotating station it dose help in keeping your controls.

 

[CMDR Slee Piboi]

Mouse and keyboard players like myself just spin out all over the place, since that good ol' mouse always seems to float all over the place.

AFAIK many if not most top PvP pilots fly full FAOff in combat using KBAM. Having just made the transition from a gamepad / HOTAS on PS4 to a throttle and mouse on PC, it's much more precise with a mouse. Easier in pretty much every way except for the stupid forced-FA-on supercruise.

Relative mouse on, then it's just practice practice practice. Do every station docking in FAOff. Navigate within the station outer structure (Coriolis stations are full of cavities) using a Sidewinder or a Viper 3. Fly to asteroid belts and practice by orbiting miners and individual rocks in FAOff. Do some mining FAOff (bring lots of limpets tho). Go to High RES and take a swing at FAOff combat while 'winged' by security ships. Use fixed guns only until it all becomes second nature. There's no magic sauce and nobody is born with FAOff midichlorians in their DNA, it's all learned.

I was a proponent for partial FA but now a few hundred hours later I think it's actually a lot easier to aim fixed guns in full FAOff. For the record regarding the suggestion, I've nothing against added optionality. So I support such a change. It's just that personally I wouldn't use anything but full FAOff even if I had the option, nor do I see the point since FAOff has 'clicked' for me and I think any variant besides the full 6DOF FAOff would be mostly pointless. But anyway, the feature seems set in stone as it is, so...



um...



git gud?

 

[domingo]

Mike Evans commented on the all or nothing approach to FA-OFF quite some time ago:

Design by choice, a very old one in fact. There's plenty of stuff in the forums about it if your search fu is strong. Basically I wanted FAOff to be artificially difficult.

I really think it is second best time to remove "artifical" from that design. FA/off is hard enough without making it even harder by bad design choices.

Some crutches for FA/off would be handy. More people would be using that - and it is more reality based than "airplane in space" design.
Any realspace task that requires more than hauling cargo from point A to point B can benefit from FA/off.

 

[KylePanarid]

The problem I have is that I much prefer non-relative mouse control for FA ON flight, but trying to keep the nose pointing in one direction with FA-OFF is a real chore. With non-relative mouse control it's impossible to not get some wobble.
I would very much desire an FA-OFF mode that still provides attitude assist. Having to wobble your mouse back and forth endlessly with the current FAOFF is not a challenge of skill, it is a chore of tedium and nausea.
Also, this method of flight control is the standard on actual spacecraft sooooo. y'know.
+1

 

[Sylow]

AFAIK many if not most top PvP pilots fly full FAOff in combat using KBAM. Having just made the transition from a gamepad / HOTAS on PS4 to a throttle and mouse on PC, it's much more precise with a mouse. Easier in pretty much every way except for the stupid forced-FA-on supercruise.

No. Pemanent FAOff is impressive, but a trap by itself. Keep in mind that while you have full thruster control in FAOff, your ship sometimes has miraculously stronger thrusters with FAOn.

Just try it. Go FAOff. Use lateral thrusters in one direction to get to a certain speed, then use them in the opposite direction to slow down. Note how long you need to decelerate. Now use lateral thrusters again to get to the same speed, then switch to FAOn. Note that you decelerate much faster.

The best pilots know when to use which mode and switch accordingly. (Unfortunately i am not one of them. I merely know the difference, but i am not good in applying it. )

 

[Lestat]

Try here and watch and try to practice it.

Elite Dangerous : Flight Assist Off - Station

 

[Morbad]

Full off = Also what we have now, full newtonian, with no pitch, roll, yaw correction

This is not quite what we have now. Blue zone still has an influence on rotationals; pips still determine the maximum velocity you can accelerate to, even if you can maintain an existing vector irrespective of them; and if you are at or below your current pip speed limit, you still get some rotational damping. There was also the addition in pre-release beta 3.0 that added boost speed bleed.

There is no full FA Off setting, or even anything really close to it, and FA On provides a few arbitrary enhancements that have nothing to do with speed caps or rotational damping.

 

[domingo]

This is not quite what we have now. Blue zone still has an influence on rotationals; pips still determine the maximum velocity you can accelerate to, even if you can maintain an existing vector irrespective of them; and if you are at or below your current pip speed limit, you still get some rotational damping. There was also the addition in pre-release beta 3.0 that added boost speed bleed.

That is not because of Flight Assist.
That is because of E flight model - it's really an aeroplane in space.
It behaves like flight in atmosphere. Though it is really some phlogiston or what

 

[Morbad]

That is not because of Flight Assist.
That is because of E flight model - it's really an aeroplane in space.
It behaves like flight in atmosphere. Though it is really some phlogiston or what

The game does have newtonian physics underneath, but there are caps and limiters on everything.

Flight assist off doesn't disable it all, but it used to disable more in the past, well except for rotational dampening...that was actually reduced, but still isn't absent.

 

[dxm55]

Yeah, I noticed that in FA-Off, you still have a speed limit. I boost myself to the max, then hit FA-Off to coast. I still see my speed settling down.
Which is .

Looks more like a selective FA-off than a true one. Especially since FDev "intentionally made it hard" by not giving us any in-between modes.