Paying off a bounty in a large ship - a story of a C&P system that punishes the player IN REAL LIFE

[Noctover]

Paying off a bounty in a large ship - a story of a C&P system that punishes the player IN REAL LIFE

What the actual....

Literally just come back from a 6 month break in the game and i've spent the best part of 3 hours trying to figure out what Frontier were smoking when they created THIS C&P system clear my bounty.

So, i did a mission, a perfectly legal "our equipment is damage please scan this post on a lifeless rock in the middle of nowhere quest". Lets gloss over the fact i received a bounty for doing a job for someone in the first place.

I got a bounty for doing the scan, figured id clear it but hey, no large landing pads in the system so went back to hand the mission in, figured id do it later like usual, BOY WAS I WRONG!

So at this point; i have a bounty, which is apparently attached to my ship not me, i cannot land in the system because well, no large pads, and every system with an IF i have been too has; you guessed it! NO LARGE PADS!

2 Questions:

Lovely people of the forum: What the hell do i do?

Frontier: Did you design C&P purposely so that the player would lose the will to live, to the point they would dare NEVER incur a bounty again? Because if so 10/10 good work.

I look forward to the prospect of now paying over 1 million per module for a 100cr bounty, recieved for doing a comissioned task for the people who owned the property i apparently trespassed on. Game design at its finest.

 

[Stealthie]

What system are you in?

Use INARA to find the nearest IF with a large pad. https://inara.cz/galaxy-nearest/

And, whatever you do, don't remove any modules from your ship.

*EDIT*

But yes.

In general, it seems like a heap of people complained that there were no consequences for ganking, griefing or murder-hoboing and FDev resolved to fix this.
After much thought, much effort and (apparently) much onionhead, they revealed a system which creates all sorts of inconveniences, ranging from trivial to game-breaking, for all sorts of misdemeanors but actually does chuff-all to resolve the issue it was intended to address.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

What the actual....

Literally just come back from a 6 month break in the game and i've spent the best part of 3 hours trying to figure out what Frontier were smoking when they created THIS C&P system clear my bounty.

So, i did a mission, a perfectly legal "our equipment is damage please scan this post on a lifeless rock in the middle of nowhere quest". Lets gloss over the fact i received a bounty for doing a job for someone in the first place.

I got a bounty for doing the scan, figured id clear it but hey, no large landing pads in the system so went back to hand the mission in, figured id do it later like usual, BOY WAS I WRONG!

So at this point; i have a bounty, which is apparently attached to my ship not me, i cannot land in the system because well, no large pads, and every system with an IF i have been too has; you guessed it! NO LARGE PADS!

2 Questions:

Lovely people of the forum: What the hell do i do?

Frontier: Did you design C&P purposely so that the player would lose the will to live, to the point they would dare NEVER incur a bounty again? Because if so 10/10 good work.

I look forward to the prospect of now paying over 1 million per module for a 100cr bounty, recieved for doing a comissioned task for the people who owned the property i apparently trespassed on. Game design at its finest.

Option 1: Land on a planetary Installation where they all have large pads and an Interstellar Faction. Problem Solved.
Option 2: Purchase a sidewinder in any other system with a large pad and visit the IF of your choosing. Problem Solved.

 

[Noctover]

Option 1: Land on a planetary Installation where they all have large pads and an Interstellar Faction. Problem Solved.
Option 2: Purchase a sidewinder in any other system with a large pad and visit the IF of your choosing. Problem Solved.

Does not work, i took an ASP to the same system i had the bounty in and i had no fines to pay, i took the ASP to an IF and had no fines to pay. I need to be in THE SHIP i "committed a crime in"

What system are you in?

Use INARA to find the nearest IF with a large pad. https://inara.cz/galaxy-nearest/

And, whatever you do, don't remove any modules from your ship.

*EDIT*

But yes.

In general, it seems like a heap of people complained that there were no consequences for ganking, griefing or murder-hoboing and FDev resolved to fix this.
After much thought, much effort and (apparently) much onionhead, they revealed a system which creates all sorts of inconveniences, ranging from trivial to game-breaking, for all sorts of misdemeanors but actually does chuff-all to resolve the issue it was intended to address.

Already removed and added modules since then unfortunately.

 

[Stealthie]

Option 2: Purchase a sidewinder in any other system with a large pad and visit the IF of your choosing. Problem Solved.

Does that work now?

Last time I checked, you have to be IN the ship you were flying when you got a bounty before you can pay it.
If you show up at an IF in a different ship, it doesn't show you any outstanding fines/bounties which you can pay.

 

[Noctover]

Can i just destroy my Annie and use buy back? That will be cheaper than the cost of cleaning these modules.

Does that work now?

Last time I checked, you have to be IN the ship you were flying when you got a bounty before you can pay it.
If you show up at an IF in a different ship, it doesn't show you any outstanding fines/bounties which you can pay.

It does not.

 

[Stealthie]

Can i just destroy my Annie and use buy back? That will be cheaper than the cost of cleaning these modules.

heh, it's like I'm having this discussion in stereo, in two threads at the same time. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/442178-Stung-by-module-cleaning-costs

No personal experience of getting blown up to remove bounties but here's what the wiki says:-

"If your ship is destroyed with a detected bounty you will respawn in a Detention Centre, where you will need to pay off all valid fines and bounties in that jurisdiction."

On top of that, I can tell you that you're also just going to have to eat the cost of "cleaning" any modules you removed from the ship.
If you removed a big shield or big fuel-scoop, that might be painful.

It does not.

Didn't think so.

I guess that's why criminals have to appear in court wearing the same clothes they were wearing when they committed a crime, right?

You know it makes perfect sense.

*EDIT*

You need any help, perhaps with fuel, getting to a suitable IF or anything?

 

[Noctover]

Thankyou, for the offer of help Stealthie; i did a nice 20 jump journey to pay my debts. A nice 38 million; cheers Frontier; a 100cr bounty owned for just over 24hrs; that punishment really suits the "crime".

Loving the "big ship tax" aswell, straight out of Londons congestion charge booklet.

"Too big to park bro go pay 25% more"

(Sarcasm and bitterness is my outlet to avoid getting band from the forum and game).l

 

[fus roh potato]

We had problems with players cheating out high bounties by using sidewinders, and replaced it with wanted modules: A system even more problematic because it replaced crime skimping consequences with non-crime getting consequences. We had issues with players getting minor consequences for "shooting first," instead of consequences for being a murderer. Now we have ATR which forces us to press J within a minute. How rude. We had (and still have) issues with player tracking and player bounty hunting, activities that don't exist or work. We have issues with instancing where players don't show up or vanish. We have issues with players (and criminals) combat logging.

Frontier did absolutely nothing to address those main concerns. Instead they spent months developing this C&P nonsense that does nothing other than off newbs and leave murderers bored to death. Might as well just keep picking off newbs and stream sniping because nobody comes to defend them. There's nobody to come because nobody knows where we are. Nobody wants our bounties because we often don't even have them. When we do, good luck getting them because of how easy it is to just hi-wakey away.

Stoooopid. Man I really miss Jumpgate. That game had an amazing bounty/crime system.

 

[Noctover]

Its mental....You don't need to be a game designer to realise its TOTALLY BROKEN! Want to dissuade gankers? Hows about just applying the new C&P system to PVP only? Look at that a better idea and it took me 4 seconds to come up with. You don't need to be a genius to figure out its current implementation is more broken than Donald Trumps spell checker.

Its been a great night, 38mil down for doing a planetary scan mission, the games been freezing all night (which its never done before) and my joystick keeps throwing a tantrum. All thats needed now to finish it off nicely is Cmdr Eagleboy to pop in and tell me how its all my fault and C&P is a work of art.

 

[Stealthie]

Its mental....You don't need to be a game designer to realise its TOTALLY BROKEN! Want to dissuade gankers? Hows about just applying the new C&P system to PVP only? Look at that a better idea and it took me 4 seconds to come up with. You don't need to be a genius to figure out its current implementation is more broken than Donald Trumps spell checker.

Indeed.

It's like telling your boss you need a new printer and so he redecorates the office by painting it matt black, removes all the lights and windows and then spends months figuring out a reliable way for people to get to their desks in pitch-blackness and, with that solved, declares the project a success.

At the time, I recall reading a lot of people saying how C&P should apply equally to all activities, PvE or PvP.
Cobblers.
There was never a problem with the penalties related to criminal PvE activities.

All that was needed was a way to create consequences for criminal PvP activities.

Don't really understand why "the new C&P" didn't just involve the Creation of "Pilot's federation Enforcers", who show up in a system and start shooting at PF members (players) who've been doing criminal things in one place for more than a few minutes.

 

[fus roh potato]

Want to dissuade gankers? Hows about just applying the new C&P system to PVP only?

You don't really want to dissuade it. You want to channel it into activity. What scenario is best? You get killed in open but there's nothing you can do about it. You get killed but there IS something you can do, or you avoid all interaction entirely, which is already a supported option with solo and PG? I think one of the biggest issues with the community here is that most have not yet tasted justice and payback in a game like this. I've gotten this from games like Jumpgate and Lineage2, because they offered tools to go hunt down your aggressors, but such tools don't really exist in Elite because the game is biased in favor of letting players escape and hide. You have to hope you have them on your friend's list, or hope you know one of their friends who are willing to rat them out, or have access to a discord server that uses a bot to illegally distribute player location info (cheating) taken from API logs stored when another player using the API scans them. Even then, there's still a silly lo-hi-wakey game you have to play that works in their favor.

Players could potentially be their own form of ATR if players knew where to go. Combat activity broadcast, notorious player spotted list in the "up menu" instead of station news, a Pilot's Federation bounty that's protected with logic to prevent friends from collecting like Jumpgate had (a 1997 game), a bounty that is paid for by the wanted pilot, and "mass lock" logic that isn't designed for carebears or to give the most safety to the ships with the most defense in the game. I'm not saying copy other games, I'm just saying, use logic that promotes a better game.

Or just make a system where if you bump into a ship or take a salvage mission that you have to spend an extra 30 minutes opening websites, docking, paying fines, spending millions to clean modules or what even how this did making any dur sense for anything because it's soooo fun...

 

[Morbad]

Hows about just applying the new C&P system to PVP only?

I'm against any system that treats CMDRs and NPCs differently, without absolute technical necessity, or a bulletproof plot/lore rationalization.

 

[Good Death]

I'm against any system that treats CMDRs and NPCs differently, without absolute technical necessity, or a bulletproof plot/lore rationalization.

Um okay good for you.

To OP crime doesn't pay.

 

[MDHansen]

I'm sadly gonna be that guy that says; you came back after 6 months and didn't think of reading patch notes and making sure you understood the fact the game has changed in certain areas(?)

the new C&P is a little flawed, but I for one has no issues playing the game having both bounties and notoriety to my head (ships)

 

[sollisb]

I'm sadly gonna be that guy that says; you came back after 6 months and didn't think of reading patch notes and making sure you understood the fact the game has changed in certain areas(?)

the new C&P is a little flawed, but I for one has no issues playing the game having both bounties and notoriety to my head (ships)

That's akin to saying 'climbing Kilimanjaro is a little difficult'

I think Stealthie said it best above. It's an over-engineered, overly-complex, under-achieving mess. And it's about as realistic as the local henhouse having a fox as their mate.

It was 'meant' to make the murder-hobos think twice about un-wanton killing. What's the result? The murder-hobos wearing their bounty amounts like flags of honour.

Basically they took a system and made it worse. Can anyone, anyone? Point out something good in the new C&P system? And let's not forget they also f'd up the KWS do achieve this joke design.

 

[Freelancer Knux]

I think its good the amount of salt the changes brought in.

 

[Stigbob]

Basically they took a system and made it worse. Can anyone, anyone? Point out something good in the new C&P system? And let's not forget they also f'd up the KWS do achieve this joke design.

ATF force noob killers/CG gankers out of the instance so they can't hang around on extended splatting spree's.

It also makes system authority attacking harder, but not impossible.

There's two good things.

 

[Iskariot]

What the actual....

Literally just come back from a 6 month break in the game and i've spent the best part of 3 hours trying to figure out what Frontier were smoking when they created THIS C&P system clear my bounty.

So, i did a mission, a perfectly legal "our equipment is damage please scan this post on a lifeless rock in the middle of nowhere quest". Lets gloss over the fact i received a bounty for doing a job for someone in the first place.

I got a bounty for doing the scan, figured id clear it but hey, no large landing pads in the system so went back to hand the mission in, figured id do it later like usual, BOY WAS I WRONG!

So at this point; i have a bounty, which is apparently attached to my ship not me, i cannot land in the system because well, no large pads, and every system with an IF i have been too has; you guessed it! NO LARGE PADS!

2 Questions:

Lovely people of the forum: What the hell do i do?

Frontier: Did you design C&P purposely so that the player would lose the will to live, to the point they would dare NEVER incur a bounty again? Because if so 10/10 good work.

I look forward to the prospect of now paying over 1 million per module for a 100cr bounty, recieved for doing a comissioned task for the people who owned the property i apparently trespassed on. Game design at its finest.

I agree. Stuff like you describe stifles game play, because it creates frustrating, unforeseeable consequences that might halt your ability, but also your resolve to play the game. I have played a lot less (at least 75% less) since the new C&P got introduced.

What would help somewhat: Enable us to deal with bounties, when we are piloting a different ship.

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

Simple fix.

Old system vs NPC crime.

New system for PvP crimes.

Not hard to program that in whatsoever.

As an added plus for all parties involved, if a player has noteriety gained from killing players, they are locked into open play until thier noteriety decreases, or they are murdered and the bounties claimed.

We have a particular group "PvPers" (I use the term VERY loosely, they are scrubs who rely on superior numbers) on the Ps4, who will hide in solo/PG until they have a decent enough numbers to go and cause mischief unopposed, then pop back to solo when thier mates log off.

The kind of PvPers who seal club, send abusive messages and engage in any potential activity just to try to get a rise out of people, not just "salt miners", but actually really nasty pieces of work, who now have such ludicrous bounties that should they die, they would never be playing Elite again due to absolute bankruptcy. It's about time we had a system that punishes the folk who make actual PvPers look bad.

Hell, why not go one step further. If they accumilate a bounties to a set number, say over 10 million, then they can't enter systems without being flagged by notifications in every other players tab, and suffer constant interdictions from the ATR, make them proper hard to beat too. But mode locking such players into open, would be a damn good start.

Also is it too much to ask for the KWS to activate the station security turrets if they get flagged as wanted in the stations? It would effectively circumvent them sitting in the station and waiting it off with no repurcussions.

Time for a system that actually punishes the lowlifes, but has reasonable and managable repurcussion for the accidental/NPC based "crimes".