Payouts should be linked to risk

Why? Missions aren't required to profit from mining or exploring.

But they do help.

Each play activity has things you can do to maximize your income. If you want to max profit from bounties you need to build a relationship with the people who want other people hunted.

What would Dr. King Schulz have been without Henry Allen Laudermilk willing to sign off on his antics?
 
But they do help.

Each play activity has things you can do to maximize your income. If you want to max profit from bounties you need to build a relationship with the people who want other people hunted.

What would Dr. King Schulz have been without Henry Allen Laudermilk willing to sign off on his antics?

It's not just a case of helping, if you're willing to exploit cross faction mission stacking, the bounty vouchers are just icing on the cake. The majority of the income comes from the missions. Likely the bounty voucher payouts will be balanced around this meta since that's how FD have always done things, but I'm unsure why combat is unique in relying on missions.
 
I think it makes more sense to balance it in regards to entry levels and investment.

eg. data delivery < mining < exploration < haz res / pve piracy < CZ < Thargoids

Place any activity in between, in regards to what requirements the activity has when it comes to outfitting and mechanics.

Thargoids being the highest as it requires guardian unlocks, engineer unlocks, synthesis, well equipped ship and the advanced type of pve combat.
Data delivery the lowest as it requires a ship.

EDIT: you can even branch it in sub categories, eg. as mining was recently done: laser < sub surface < core.
Same can be done for: high res < haz res, or eg. pve piracy: anarchy < low security < medium security < high security system
 
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It's not just a case of helping, if you're willing to exploit cross faction mission stacking, the bounty vouchers are just icing on the cake. The majority of the income comes from the missions. Likely the bounty voucher payouts will be balanced around this meta since that's how FD have always done things, but I'm unsure why combat is unique in relying on missions.

Not unique at all. Exploration benefits from passenger missions, trade from trade missions.

Mining even has missions, its just you can't stack them and mining generally pays better when you work for yourself.
 
Not unique at all. Exploration benefits from passenger missions, trade from trade missions.

Mining even has missions, its just you can't stack them and mining generally pays better when you work for yourself.

Didn't say the other activities don't have missions. Read my post again.
 
Didn't say the other activities don't have missions. Read my post again.

I read your post, and alluding to a deeper meaning doesn't add one. Passenger and trade are also reliant on missions for the bulk of their income.

So there is nothing unique about combat in relying on missions for payment.
 
As much as I embrace the latest changes to combat, they still don’t stretch anywhere close to where they should be. It was my option that you should get more money for undertaking the biggest risks in the game, not the other way around.

I’ve spent many years core mining, and as much as I appreciate the billions I have made, I haven’t once limped back home with life challenging injuries, unlike in combat where I occasionally limp back to a station with a cracked canopy after taking on one wing too many.

I write this after going back to the role of bounty hunter, and yet still shocked by how little it pays, even after the changes.

Is this fair? Do you think payouts should be better linked to risk?
No, I don't think it's possible to link payouts to risk. Blowing up an Elite Python gets a certain payout whether you do it in a Cobra III or a Corvette. It's impossible for FD to know in advance whether you're a risk-taking or safety-conscious Commander.
 
I read your post, and alluding to a deeper meaning doesn't add one. Passenger and trade are also reliant on missions for the bulk of their income.

So there is nothing unique about combat in relying on missions for payment.

Sorry there is. Picking up missions is just that. Stacking combat missions is an exploit meta. Without that exploit, mining with a broken scanner is still a lot better than combat.
 
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I think there's a Factor X here that the statement "higher risk activities should pay more" misses, and that's the inherent popularity and attractiveness of the different activities.

Not necessarily how fun they are while doing them -- since that's all relative and personal anyway -- but their inherent draw to people who aren't currently engaged in them; how much they tend to "sell" themselves to players looking for something to do, if all else was equal, when looked at across the game as a whole.

And there are BIG disparities in how inherently engaging and attractive different activities are in Elite.

Combat and bounty hunting needs (needed?) its payouts buffed, no doubt.

But it's also probably the most fun activity in Elite, or at least it's probably the most attractive and intuitive activity to fall into doing. High-adrenaline, visually-arresting thrills. I'm talking, in general, across the whole game and userbase here (with some guesswork, I don't have the figures, FD does I'm sure).

Mining, trading... not quite so sexy. Satisfying once you actually get into them. But their inherent attractiveness lies more in the promise of big cash rewards, whereas combat has a bigger slice of excitement and adrenaline in its psychological rewards pie-chart.

I think it's perfectly reasonable for activities that don't sell themselves quite so readily (to people not currently doing them) to use higher rewards as a draw to get people involved in them.

Risk should also be a component in the decision-making over reward. But not the only one.

It needs to be a balance of these two things and more, IMO.
 
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I have always thought there should be a underweight bonuses to payouts and rank/rep/inf progression. Take out an Elite FDL in a Cobra III, and get an underweight bonus. Do it in a Sidewinder, get a bigger bonus.
But combat is fairly low risk unless you totally muck it up. Or try it in a suboptimal ship/outfit/loadout. I am more in danger of destroying my 3A shielded mining Python by bumping into rocks than I am to even lose shields in a HighRes with a combat outfit FDL/KraitII or pretty much any medium or large combat vessel.
 
THis why i dont get the risk reward thing. You chose the risk you take . Wanna take on 10 npc in the same zone ? just laser taunt them.

Wanna mine FA off orbiting ? lets go.

Even AX combat if you look at it , (appart for the last ones) is a matter of equipement and preparation.

If we follow your resoning ,basick mining / trading should pay nearly nothing.

there is no risk-reward between differents jobs. Deal with it.
 
As much as I embrace the latest changes to combat, they still don’t stretch anywhere close to where they should be. It was my option that you should get more money for undertaking the biggest risks in the game, not the other way around.

I’ve spent many years core mining, and as much as I appreciate the billions I have made, I haven’t once limped back home with life challenging injuries, unlike in combat where I occasionally limp back to a station with a cracked canopy after taking on one wing too many.

I write this after going back to the role of bounty hunter, and yet still shocked by how little it pays, even after the changes.

Is this fair? Do you think payouts should be better linked to risk?
Risk is very hard to quantify, what is risky for one pilot is safe for another due to different levels of ability and practice even if they are using identical ships. The ranks don’t necessarily help as the competent pilot might well be a multi year veteran just after a reset or starting an alt while the dangerous one is only a few weeks in.
 
Well you don't have to, but if you're killing 50 ships for their bounties, and you can get 30 million extra credits by taking a "massacre" mission (or whatever)...
But killing ships for their bounties can be done where you like with your choice of targets and your choice of the number of ships and how long you take.
Taking on a mission removes a lot of that freedom and while they do pay you for giving up your freedoms is it worth the hassle.
 
Every time I see these arguments, I have to ask myself...

"Who exactly gets to measure what "risk" gets a "reward"?"
Well the Health and Safety Executive for grading the risk and the Pilots Federation and factions set the rewards.
 
Are you eating luke warm raw chicken or a professionally prepared puffer fish? If i farm npcs with a laser boat Corvette for 5 hours or farm rocks with a mining laser which should pay more? Should combat pay more if i deliberately use a T7 instead of a Corvette? How about an unshielded T7? Should that make the bounties higher?
Part of the problem with this dumb debate is that most rebuys you didn't volunteer for will be the result of a glitch.
Falling skimmers, dirty cops, scrambled power priority, inexplicably hostile engineer bases, toast racks coated in industrial strength adhesive, etc. The game has very little risk once a player achieves a modicum of proficiencies.
 
Sorry there is. Picking up missions is just that. Stacking combat missions is an exploit meta. Without that exploit, mining with a broken scanner is still a lot better than combat.

Ahh I see the problem. You think combat mission stacking is an exploit. Thing is its been deliberately left in the game after same faction stacking was removed.

Its not an exploit, its just efficient.

Same as the cargo missions I've been running, where I take several missions and do 1 trip. Or the data missions where you get 20 then deliver them.
 
Given the increases for commodities and delivery missions, I would tent to agree that combat is still lacking just a little, but what has been done so far in the rebalance is definitely good.

The term "risk" is a bit subjective depending on skill and the ship, etc. I'm not sure we can expect the risk / reward to be balanced perfectly.
 
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