Pentagons & Guardian Ruins - This Could Be The Key?

[CMDR Dreamstate]

Folks, I think this is important for those trying to find the ruins - I've posted this in Canonn already, but people miss a lot of info.

So here it is;

Hello all, back here gassing again.

I went over the lore to try to get some ideas, and this stuck out like a sore thumb:

Culture 12

"This is truly fascinating data commander, as an engineer myself I have to admit I'm highly curious about the Guardians technology. It seems that the guardians had a particular fascination with geometric shapes, which they used to illustrate connections between themselves and the world around them. This predilection manifested itself in their technology as well - specifically their monolith network. With this data and the help of the galactic community we've partially mapped the monolith network, which formed the backbone of their communications technology, and discovered that they too are arranged in geometric patterns. Whilst this does not give us full access to the network, I believe it is the first step to unlocking the entire system and maybe more."

There are 5 systems.

There are 5 different types of data; Alpha, Beta, Delta, Epsilon, Gamma.

There are 5 points in Pentagons - Pentagons are used in geometric patterns.

I think there could be 5 ruins on each planet - each connected within 1 pentagon out of the 6.

The numbers of co-ordinates are consistently within 30-30, 30-60, 20-140 (120), 30-180, etc (probably more - the bigger, wider numbers we see such as 140 and 180 are probably the longest lines of the pentagon). This would suggest some sort of symmetry at work - geometry.

Regular Dodecahedron

The below shape is made out of 5 pointed pentagons - could this represent the shape of a planet to the Guardians? For more on Dodecahedron: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regular_dodecahedron

Spoiler

This leads on to Spherical Polyhedron (source) or Spherical Tiling (source):

Spoiler

PICTURE BELOW of accurate in game planet, with co-ords and arrow on 5th ruin:

 

[CMDR Dreamstate]

Updated with some more interesting bits of info relating to Regular Dodecahedron...

 

[CMDR Dreamstate]

added another pic:

 

[Fracktal]

Did you check your hypothesis by looking for additional ruins at your predicted location before posting it?

No offense, but it is really important in research to do some experimentation before having people (could be a lot of people, seeing the number who were looking for ruins) maybe investing time in something totally wrong.

 

[Sterling MH]

Nice thinking. Triangles would form an isocahedron, and in Plato's time, that was forbidden knowledge to any other than the intelligensia (note to those scorning intelligent people as living in an "Ivory tower": you can still visit Plato's cave he lived in), since it was the fifth regular polyhedron which, because the other four signified the Four Elements of the universe, must have signified the fifth element: Life.

Odd fact: Asps are pentagonal in silhouette. Are they investigated by thargoids more than any other ship?

And there's no regular polyhedron based on the octagon alone, the thargoid shape of choice. So maybe thargoids and guardians are unrelated, or maybe mutual enemies.

 

[Lightspeed]

It would be helpful if, in the example given, the OP could identify the four other co-ordinates that should be searched to prove or disprove the theory.

I am skeptical, though, because the plan images of the first and second discovered ruins are in the shape of a squashed hexagon, aren't they?

 

[CMDR Dreamstate]

Did you check your hypothesis by looking for additional ruins at your predicted location before posting it?

No offense, but it is really important in research to do some experimentation before having people (could be a lot of people, seeing the number who were looking for ruins) maybe investing time in something totally wrong.

I've been going to different locations, yes (from my previous flat map, NOT the new one, below) - if anyone wants to help, more the merrier

The lore does strongly support this theory - but like all other theories tried so far, nothing but air (including many of mine lol).

However, I've gone to an exact location with this picture (took about 20 screenshots to get it exact). I'll be heading to the areas of the map later and use the map as a reference for somewhere around where the other dots are. Got family engagements this afternoon, so won't be available to try these myself until I'm back.

I'm wondering if "Axial Tilt" plays a role in where the ruins are located - so I'll check some of the locations, below, later on, and if those don't match, I'll make to maps with 2 tilts - one with 23.9 like in the info map of the planet, and one with -23.9 (because who knows, it may be minus to counter-act the axis).

If none of the locations check out, I'll explore more complicated geometry (the lore supports geometry, so it is the best avenue to pursue).

 

[Fracktal]

I've been going to different locations, yes

However, I've gone to an exact location with this picture (took about 20 screenshots to get it exact). I'll be heading to the areas of the map later and use the map as a reference for somewhere around where the other dots are. Got family engagements this afternoon, so won't be available to try these myself until I'm back.

http://i.imgur.com/DVIdlUP.jpg

Fair enough and IRL obligation were straight one of the point of my post:
Don't have something out and people waste time on it, without being able to back-it up with "Live experimentation" otherwise you end-up losing credibility and being totally ignored (cf. Cannon thread) by "Crying Wolf" too often without any result.

I involved myself a lot in the research of the Ruins in the Synuefe ZL-J D10-119 system and made lots of calculation/hypothesis but posted none, as nothing I "predicted" was verified as true.
My posting contribution was limited to "live experimentation" feedback (strange sky layouts with correlated abnormal load time) with very limited scope i.e something which could be checked fast by people around knowing what they were doing (Load time investigation).

And it proved to be the right approach as I was not even close to locating the Ruins:
I was focusing on the wrong planets (14B, 7D following my hypothesis and 11B following another person theory at the beginning) while the site was on a planet I didn't even consider as candidate for Brute force searching, the Planet 9B.

 

[the100thmonkey]

Did you check your hypothesis by looking for additional ruins at your predicted location before posting it?

No offense, but it is really important in research to do some experimentation before having people (could be a lot of people, seeing the number who were looking for ruins) maybe investing time in something totally wrong.

On the other hand, it will be much quicker to disprove the hypothesis if a lot of people are trying to find the other points - until a second site is found, the only way to locate one will be brute force. Once (if) a second site is found, finding the rest is a matter of trigonometry.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

While they are pretty pictures, the flaw is that you only have one known vertex on each planet.
That means the orientation of the polygons could be rotated by any degree, thus moving the predicted points.

My spherical maths isn't good enough to predict the patterns that would be made by that rotation but it'll be an awful lot of lines all over the sphere.

 

[Scaarab]

According to your theory there is many tens of ruins per planet which would make finding ruins a far more easy process then it already is. And people would have found ruins much more frequently than they doing right now. Go and test your idea. Show some faith in your own hypothesis and waste your own time. Come back with results to make our time worthwhile.

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

Gave up on the entire mystery as soon as i saw all the ruins were identical. A sure sign of how generic and unexciting this is going to turn out to be...

 

[the100thmonkey]

While they are pretty pictures, the flaw is that you only have one known vertex on each planet.
That means the orientation of the polygons could be rotated by any degree, thus moving the predicted points.

My spherical maths isn't good enough to predict the patterns that would be made by that rotation but it'll be an awful lot of lines all over the sphere.

One could assume that the Guardians would orient their vertices on the rotational centre of each planet, as has been done on the presented images. That would simplify things a great deal.

According to your theory there is many tens of ruins per planet which would make finding ruins a far more easy process then it already is. And people would have found ruins much more frequently than they doing right now. Go and test your idea. Show some faith in your own hypothesis and waste your own time. Come back with results to make our time worthwhile.

There are twenty.

Frankly, you sound jealous.

 

[CMDR Dreamstate]

Just read people's posts, so thanks for showing an interest

The other edge to the blade about testing out hypotheses is this; if a person is single-handedly testing out a theory, and is proved to be right, does that person then have to share to the community his or her findings?

I can see why sharing a million theories on something isn't a great approach (especially if they aren't field-testing themselves because no one wants their time wasted), but neither is not helping or offering to help because that in itself is counter-productive.

After all, if someone discovers there are indeed more ruins on a planet because of "theory X", why would he or she have to share anything considering no one else helped?

If something is discovered, and you have done nothing to help in that discovery, why should you have the right to also have that discovered knowledge? What work and effort did you put into it to enjoy that access?

Not attempting to argue peoples points here, but I have seen many "test on your own" comments from so many, many people in these forums now that it seems to be like an epidemic. What happened to working together?

Anyway, back on topic, I've checked the threads and no one has discovered anything new, so I'll get back to work.

I'm online now, so I'll be going over the map I've made and see what I can do.

 

[Bryan K]

Gave up on the entire mystery as soon as i saw all the ruins were identical. A sure sign of how generic and unexciting this is going to turn out to be...

This. People are reading in to all this way too much.

To me, the copies prove that there is no "mystery". It's just another interesting idea badly executed. The problem is that a lot of people here NEED there to be a meaning to all the shapes of the ruins. The need does not make it true, though. It's sad, but at this point there is no concrete evidence to say otherwise. It's a broken puzzle which had all of 5 minutes of thought put into it.

Anyone who does work with 3d modeling programs knows how easy it would be to add a little variation to the sites. The fact that this simple act was not done suggests an incomprehensible level of apathy on FDev's part.

My theory is that this was just something to keep us all busy so we'd stop paying attention to all the other broken and bugged elements of the game while they scramble to find fixes to implement in 2.3.

 

[Mengy]

Interesting theory. I don't think it's accurate though, as the load time grid method of searching planets would be finding many more ruins if your theory was correct. I look forward to seeing if you find anything though.

Good luck!

 

[CMDR Dreamstate]

Just occurred to me.

Axial Tilt won't matter on the ground; your ship's compass always points north.

There are 360 degrees in a circle; and in a pentagon, these are divided by 72 degree segments.

Therefore, I have set a heading of 72 degrees, and will travel for an hour at a heading of 72 degrees (positive); starting from the centre of the ruins, facing the compass at 0, then turning my bearing to the right at 72'.

If I'm right, then all it means is, if the next lot of ruins are there - I just adjust my heading to the left by 72' - get to the next, change heading by 72 degrees again, etc., until I come back to the original ruins.

It cannot possibly be this simple...

If it is, I want a VR helmet for prize oh, and world peace otherwise I'm going to lose my mind...

 

[edukainc]

Yeeaaahhhh, Although I applaud the OP and others for their effort in finding a more scientific approach to problem solving this little mystery. I have a funny feeling that FD isn't making puzzles and clues with the same depth as "The Da Vinci Code" or "National Treasure"

After what I've seen and read, probably more along the lines of "The Goonies" or "City Slickers II: The Legend of Curly's Gold"

 

[CMDR Dreamstate]

Synuefe ZL-J d10-119 9 b

Okay, I've almost traveled half way across the map at 72' degrees... and nothing so far (flying between 1-2km at 72 all the time - saw and heard nothing).

So I've stopped for tonight at -2.7601, -113.4053... may go on for just 15 more minutes, but then I'm calling this route quits. Edit: Did a bit more, reached 0.3588, -103.4284... still no luck... however, considering Longitude is 178.9094 positive, then perhaps the co-ordinates I'm looking at for tomorrow's test should be 106.9094, as I'll be testing -72 from true north (288 degrees).

So tomorrow, I shall:

1) Try the other way at 288 degrees.

1) Try again, but this time subtract 29.9 degrees from truth north to account for axial tilt (so 0 - 72 -23.9 = 264.1 compass degrees), then try again by traveling for an hour. (I could try just -72, but considering nothing has shown at +72, then it makes logical sense that nothing exists on -72, because lines - but you never know, so yeah, back to 1) for that).

2) Try again, but this time add 23.9 degrees to truth north to account for axial tilt (so 0 + 72 + 23.9 = 95.9 compass degrees), then try again by traveling for an hour.

3) If the try above do not work, I shall try and guess which way the ruin is facing (though the centre spoke in the middle actually points to true north (or 0 degrees) ... ...

If anyone wants to help out on another planet and try the same thing, go for it.

 

[CMDR Aengus]

Good Luck!

Shame about the acidity of some responses in here. Maybe if players worked together instead of getting all uppity...