picking system for new pmf

[playerwon]

greetings all o7!
so, im trying to get my squad up to the requisoste 10 members at this time, but we have also been putting some work in to a system so that when the time comes to apply there is space where we want our faction to be...
i know that they ask for three choices when i apply...
does anyone know about fdev's selection process? (fdev, feel free to weigh in here too please!)
im thinking that if there is space for a faction there, and its the first of our three choices (the other two have space for factions as well) then that is the system our pmf will start in...
any additional insight would be greatly appreciated though!
thanks in advance!

 

[Jmanis]

 

[playerwon]

View attachment 333324

yeah that information has some ambiguity...
for instance, what is a "highly active" system? how many commanders/day or week to hit that benchmark?
also, ive seen new pmf placed in systems where another pmf exists... the pre existing one being non native....
and ive seen several start out in areas where they are surrounded by hostile forces because they are aligned nearly opposite of the system that they where placed in...
granted, in these cases there where more than one failed attemp from the managing squad to pick 3 suitable locations for their faction, and it came down to fdev listing a few options for them instead...
also, one of the bullets contradicts another (more than a combined total of seven player and/or npc factions to a system seems to contradict systems with a player faction; be it expanded or initial)
dunno lol... im putting a lot of work in to a system im certain i can qualify my squad to inhabit via a pmf and im just getting anxiety about the possibility of it all being for naught.

 

[SteveWW57]

If I was looking, I would go for the edge of the bubble with as few PMFs nearby as possible, which is probably difficult as factions have been expending out for years, giving new factions little room to grow.

Steve

 

[cmdr milesred]

the 7 factions to a system has always been a thing
but fdev has made it happen many times having up to 8 , some have more
and numerous things that led up to more than 7 before fdev started making it a must be unless ...a few years ago.
they are quite strict nowadays


are you BGS experienced?
what qualifies 'lot of work' for you ?

only asking because I have a pmf and home system and more and simple curiosity.
as a BGS player I can honestly tell you sometimes a person cannot be sure if random traffic or a squatter is present.

 

[playerwon]

If I was looking, I would go for the edge of the bubble with as few PMFs nearby as possible, which is probably difficult as factions have been expending out for years, giving new factions little room to grow.

Steve

yeah this is what im doing... outside powerplay bubble, but close to useful services...
ive actually found a really good system for my purposes and im hopeful that we can get our pmf in there... all three choices will qualify (well, my #1 will once i drive 1 faction out lol, but im holding that seat until time to apply).
there are only a couple player factions running things in the area, and they seem to just be expanding for the sake of expanding.... and players do not seem to be intervening with my system manipulations, so to me that means this is an incedental system that the locals dont care about controlling.
well... i suppose that like the rest of the bgs, i can speculate based on the knowledge i can find on the subject... and fdev will still surprise me somehow when i do get to apply.
we are 1 member, 2 wars and a retreat away from this system being ours tho... its been fun working there so far!

 

[playerwon]

the 7 factions to a system has always been a thing
but fdev has made it happen many times having up to 8 , some have more
and numerous things that led up to more than 7 before fdev started making it a must be unless ...a few years ago.
they are quite strict nowadays


are you BGS experienced?
what qualifies 'lot of work' for you ?

only asking because I have a pmf and home system and more and simple curiosity.
as a BGS player I can honestly tell you sometimes a person cannot be sure if random traffic or a squatter is present.

i have played bgs... i was in a squad that was learning it, so i learned it alongside them...
then i quickly found out that these folks simply didnt understand what they where reading. they kept coming up with plans that where either unattainable or would off the neighbors and bring kumo down on the system (they where already being halted by a couple squads lol)...
so ive taken what ive learned through observation and record keeping, and started my own faction to try this management portion for myself.
so yeah... im a bgs player, but i havent had "free reign" to test out my theories as yet.
i can certainly achieve results in a system, as long as i have clear results to achieve... and my numbers are usually pretty accurate as well... so i feel ive got a pretty decent grasp on the rough mechanics of the bgs and the maths involved.
im well aware of the 7 per rule (and t he exceptions that prove it lol), but i was more highlighting that one post seems to indicate a new pmf cannot be placed where a pmf exists already (either native or not), while the other seems to indicate a pmf can be installed as long as there are 6 or less there already... assuming the no native pmf as well.
this is important to me because the system im prepping has 2 pmf in it, neither are native... one is useful, the other is not.
will i have to drive them both out to qualify that system for my new pmf or is retreating one enough since it opens that space up for us?
i really dont want to have that spot open for long... theres a lot of expanding going on there rn... and to have to open two means i have to prep another faction to expand in for 1 slot...

 

[cmdr milesred]

ic, that is the line that's the issue

and it does mean if a pmf is in it for any reason, you can't have it as a choice
if they are not native/home system then you can try to remove them, retreat them.
then after they are gone from that system it is an option.

so yes that means both have to be not there

it is a new rule because many like me had years of effort taken in an instant by putting new pmf's into systems we expanded into.
all it does is cause a lot of grief and a never ending damaging assault as pay back to those that caused the 'takeovers'
and many new pmf's are under firm control by the neighbors or by those they caused grief to.
some, like me complained very loudly.
thankfully they finally made it into a rule.

expansions take time and effort and planning
upkeep takes the same
hopefully it is not one of my systems you are interested in.

 

[Jmanis]

yeah that information has some ambiguity...
for instance, what is a "highly active" system? how many commanders/day or week to hit that benchmark?

That ambiguity, in my opinion, is deliberate, so that FD can make that definition on a whim in order to prevent players slotting into systems which may potentially become important, if they aren't already. The history is important here, where the early days of PMFs had no rules at all, and FD ended up with some major-foot-in-mouth with the

also, ive seen new pmf placed in systems where another pmf exists... the pre existing one being non native....

Can you give a specific example, and when did that happen? Also, was it actually a PMF, or just a very supported, unregistered NPC faction. This happens a lot with groups who don't have a specific PMF they support, rather, they support a large amount of factions, but they aren't allowed to "support" all of them.

and ive seen several start out in areas where they are surrounded by hostile forces because they are aligned nearly opposite of the system that they where placed in...

Examples?

granted, in these cases there where more than one failed attemp from the managing squad to pick 3 suitable locations for their faction, and it came down to fdev listing a few options for them instead...

Examples?

also, one of the bullets contradicts another (more than a combined total of seven player and/or npc factions to a system seems to contradict systems with a player faction; be it expanded or initial)

Examples?

dunno lol... im putting a lot of work in to a system im certain i can qualify my squad to inhabit via a pmf and im just getting anxiety about the possibility of it all being for naught.

Yes. It's a lot of effort these days because the bubble is quite full.

I'm not trying to be frustrating; examples of the things you are saying are really important here if you want to get a better handle of what's going on. Since the dawn of PMFs being a thing, we've gone from "No rules" to the current list of rules, and everything in between, so if you look at the galaxy you will definitely find exceptions to the rules. But without seeing those examples, I can't give any explanation or insight into what happened (or what might have happened), and so I can't offer more insight.

Nonetheless, the rules which you've seen are your best pacestick. If there's ambiguity, err on the most restrictive interpretation, as that's most likely where you'll come unstuck if you don't.

Remember: all you get out of a PMF application is your luck if paint on an otherwise indistinct faction in the game. The BGS isn't a "fair" activity or even meant for that purpose; it's just there for background flair. Ultimately, I think FD recognise now that people "weaponise" PMF insertions to an extent... and FD have recognised that. There's no rule to say "No weaponisation of PMFs" because that's completely ambiguous... so they set out these rules, but they'll interpret them however they need to prevent exactly that

 

[goemon]

greetings all o7!
so, im trying to get my squad up to the requisoste 10 members at this time, but we have also been putting some work in to a system so that when the time comes to apply there is space where we want our faction to be...
i know that they ask for three choices when i apply...
does anyone know about fdev's selection process? (fdev, feel free to weigh in here too please!)
im thinking that if there is space for a faction there, and its the first of our three choices (the other two have space for factions as well) then that is the system our pmf will start in...
any additional insight would be greatly appreciated though!
thanks in advance!

having talked to some pmfs i think
a) it is not always the first choice
and
b) fdev won't share their selection process, because that would allow to game it.

i know from some pmfs having put up 3 options with the second and third being really bad or even unlikely for fdev just to be put there. and they were put where they didn't want to go.
so make sure you pick 3 options you can imagine playing.

even if you have not asked for it, here is another list of what to watch for:
1. monitor traffic and bounty reports of systems you think about. think whether you can triple the activity with your group.
2. make sure your factions goverment is favorable to the powerplay power in that system, if there is one.
3. check out expansion options, if you set up a pmf with the idea to expand. you don't want to have active pmfs all around you.

generally very often it is better to have a small system with e.g. only outposts and a bunch of interesting expansion options. don't disregard all systems without an orbital L-Pad for exampel.

there is a bunch of inactive pmfs around. so think about the alternative to pick up one of those to back or to align your squadron with an active one.

 

[playerwon]

ic, that is the line that's the issue

and it does mean if a pmf is in it for any reason, you can't have it as a choice
if they are not native/home system then you can try to remove them, retreat them.
then after they are gone from that system it is an option.

so yes that means both have to be not there

it is a new rule because many like me had years of effort taken in an instant by putting new pmf's into systems we expanded into.
all it does is cause a lot of grief and a never ending damaging assault as pay back to those that caused the 'takeovers'
and many new pmf's are under firm control by the neighbors or by those they caused grief to.
some, like me complained very loudly.
thankfully they finally made it into a rule.

expansions take time and effort and planning
upkeep takes the same
hopefully it is not one of my systems you are interested in.

alright well that increases my workload lol
ill start working on the player faction immediately, since removal of them would also allow room for me.
poor other faction lol.
i think, if its one of your systems, you will know soon enough.... there should be 15 wars to get them out, plenty of time to notice lol.
having said that... i have tried (in vain) to contact the player group running the squad in system, but they are not identified on inara or anywhere i can find so im grasping blindly a bit.... so im stuck with talking to commanders i see in the system, and carriers in the neighborhood... very few replies to any reaching out, and those that have have never heard of the pmf in question.
well i suppose i was going to have to poke that bear eventually, lets find out if its alive or taxidermy.

 

[playerwon]

having talked to some pmfs i think
a) it is not always the first choice
and
b) fdev won't share their selection process, because that would allow to game it.

i know from some pmfs having put up 3 options with the second and third being really bad or even unlikely for fdev just to be put there. and they were put where they didn't want to go.
so make sure you pick 3 options you can imagine playing.

even if you have not asked for it, here is another list of what to watch for:
1. monitor traffic and bounty reports of systems you think about. think whether you can triple the activity with your group.
2. make sure your factions goverment is favorable to the powerplay power in that system, if there is one.
3. check out expansion options, if you set up a pmf with the idea to expand. you don't want to have active pmfs all around you.

generally very often it is better to have a small system with e.g. only outposts and a bunch of interesting expansion options. don't disregard all systems without an orbital L-Pad for exampel.

there is a bunch of inactive pmfs around. so think about the alternative to pick up one of those to back or to align your squadron with an active one.

yes i have been working on this system for several weeks now, and closely monitoring external activity where i can.
it seems i may have stubled upon an inactive faction at this point.
also, im not after expanding all that much. there are a few things i wanna do, and from any of the three systems i have picked i can do that in one or two expansions.
my first choice will be the one ive been doing all this work in getting it prepped for a pmf, the second and third are ready to take one already and have continued to be since i began watching them.
any of the three will suffice, but i really want the first... its got a couple extra small perks.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

also, one of the bullets contradicts another (more than a combined total of seven player and/or npc factions to a system seems to contradict systems with a player faction; be it expanded or initial)

It's not a contradiction though some of it is superfluous as the rules have been built up over time. (Similarly the rule about "has to be within 500 LY of Sol" means that they don't need a specific exclusion for Colonia any more)

Either >0 player faction or >7 any type of faction makes it ineligible.

Despite what it says there, systems with 7 NPC factions are eligible: they relaxed that rule years back to provide space for addition at all, but never updated the page.

 

[playerwon]

It's not a contradiction though some of it is superfluous as the rules have been built up over time. (Similarly the rule about "has to be within 500 LY of Sol" means that they don't need a specific exclusion for Colonia any more)

Either >0 player faction or >7 any type of faction makes it ineligible.

Despite what it says there, systems with 7 NPC factions are eligible: they relaxed that rule years back to provide space for addition at all, but never updated the page.

so it looks like ill have to eject the player faction from the system im working on...
good news is, im starting to think they arent actually a player faction... just an "adoptee".
wish me luck lol

 

[Northpin]

so it looks like ill have to eject the player faction from the system im working on...
good news is, im starting to think they arent actually a player faction... just an "adoptee".
wish me luck lol

You're starting to think they arent actually a player faction? a pmf is clearly identified as such, you dont need to think about it, just to check it (use inara or eddb or whatever and check it)
also

3. check out expansion options, if you set up a pmf with the idea to expand. you don't want to have active pmfs all around you.

 

[Disemboweled Ego]

If I was looking, I would go for the edge of the bubble with as few PMFs nearby as possible, which is probably difficult as factions have been expending out for years, giving new factions little room to grow.

But make sure you're not so far out on the edge of the bubble you are limiting the potential systems you can expand into to just a few.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

a pmf is clearly identified as such

Well, sort of. The name and the date of appearance are generally a pretty good clue, but not foolproof ... and there's no marker in the journal to tell definitively so the EDDB and Inara ones are all educated guesswork. Reliable >99% of the time, but no guarantees especially if someone has tried to lay low (I can't remember which one, but I know there's a PMF which kept getting its PMF flag incorrectly removed from EDDB because its name had been deliberately picked to be a plausible NPC faction)

so it looks like ill have to eject the player faction from the system im working on...

Easy way to test if it's a player faction: fill in the form as far as the system-picking stage, and see if you can pick the system already. If you can, it's not a player faction.

 

[cmdr milesred]

any carriers in the system or nearby that maybe say they are aligned to one of the factions in question ?

I have a pmf
my squadron is aligned with an npc faction both are often in the same systems, but there are a lot of systems.
there is a 3rd faction I control as well, also often in the same system as the other 2
meaning even some of my invaders are unaware of me a year after having nothing but grief from me since they barged in.
I am in open, no-one ever asks questions or says hi.
other allies have told me 'they don't think anyone is there'

yet they get stomped on a lot.....
the clues are crystal clear, especially in my case, I have 3 carriers in the area, my names are often on the top 5 local bounties

soo many are totally situational awareness deficient.
system control inf does not usually bounce around by 10% + at a time from casual traffic
and if you aren't anarchy, concern should be a thing.

I don't advertise for many reasons.
I already had a 2 year long war due to the first invader. - that's 2 years of wasted time and effort to try and take someone elses stuff.
and in that it took several months before any conversation was attempted.

Hopefully the system you have interest in actually has no more cmdrs behind it.

 

[playerwon]

any carriers in the system or nearby that maybe say they are aligned to one of the factions in question ?

I have a pmf
my squadron is aligned with an npc faction both are often in the same systems, but there are a lot of systems.
there is a 3rd faction I control as well, also often in the same system as the other 2
meaning even some of my invaders are unaware of me a year after having nothing but grief from me since they barged in.
I am in open, no-one ever asks questions or says hi.
other allies have told me 'they don't think anyone is there'

yet they get stomped on a lot.....
the clues are crystal clear, especially in my case, I have 3 carriers in the area, my names are often on the top 5 local bounties

soo many are totally situational awareness deficient.
system control inf does not usually bounce around by 10% + at a time from casual traffic
and if you aren't anarchy, concern should be a thing.

I don't advertise for many reasons.
I already had a 2 year long war due to the first invader. - that's 2 years of wasted time and effort to try and take someone elses stuff.
and in that it took several months before any conversation was attempted.

Hopefully the system you have interest in actually has no more cmdrs behind it.

yeah theres a carrier in the system, i have tried repeatedly to contact owner to no avail.
ive also gone as far as contacting every carrier owner in space run by the same faction.
very few responses there, and all had no idea about the faction i was asking.
i think i should try out the tip in the post just before yours...
all them factions, you got a spare commander i could use for a week or so?

 

[playerwon]

Well, sort of. The name and the date of appearance are generally a pretty good clue, but not foolproof ... and there's no marker in the journal to tell definitively so the EDDB and Inara ones are all educated guesswork. Reliable >99% of the time, but no guarantees especially if someone has tried to lay low (I can't remember which one, but I know there's a PMF which kept getting its PMF flag incorrectly removed from EDDB because its name had been deliberately picked to be a plausible NPC faction)


Easy way to test if it's a player faction: fill in the form as far as the system-picking stage, and see if you can pick the system already. If you can, it's not a player faction.

theres 7 factions in system rn so it wont be available.
ill just drive out the "player" faction and try that tip tho!