Pirates combat logging in open

[Jex =TE=]

Hey let's not be stupid here and start blaming pirates and call them all what they are, whoever they are

Combat logging scum - that's all we need to classify them as - they cease to become a pirate, bounty hunter, trader the moment they combat log and should now solely be referred to in this way

 

[Riktar]

Maj is partly incorrect.

The Code does have honour, just not the honour of the beehive. See it more as the the honour of the wolfpack.

Briefly, it can be summed up in this list, from our own dear forum.

We do not:

Kill people for no reason
Kill people after dropping cargo
Cripple people after dropping cargo
Kill people coming out of stations (unless said people are war targets)
Generally act like lack wits to other players
Combat log

So you cherry pick the definition of the word and consider your statement valid.

So your honour is partial and not total.

There is no honor in that,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[Cosmos]

I've been playing mostly in a group, but have been reading alot about pirates complaining about other cmdrs combat logging in open.

So I took my tooled up Python into open to see what all the hubbub was about. Flew out of Leesti, and sure enough I got interdicted by cmdr x in his Clipper: "Drop your cargo, or you die!" He cried. I'm not carrying any cargo fool...

I go at him, stocked up on shield cells and chaff.

Guess what he did the minute his shields depleted? Yeah. He combat logged. Sheesh.

Fly safe commanders.

Yeah its highly disappointing behaviour.. If anyone can destroy my ship, good for them, I don't combat log myself but the whole issue needs addressing. I know Frontier are taking it seriously so I suppose its matter of wait and see.

 

[Anopheles]

So you cherry pick the definition of the word and consider your statement valid.

So your honour is partial and not total.

There is no honor in that,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Not to get into the semantics of morality, but this is true of everyone. We have decided on a course of behaviour and have stuck to it.

 

[Jukelo]

Isn't combat logging a non honorable action?

Seems your argument contradicts itself,,,,,,,,,

Pirates have no honor within the game. Combat logging isn't a in-universe action, it's a meta-game exploit and as such has nothing to do with whatever occupation you've chosen or your (lack of a) code of honor in-game.
Pirates don't combat log, players do. Some of them are pirates, some of them are traders, etc..

 

[Seonid]

There is an old but classic example on false logic long the lines of "Tarzan swings in trees, monkeys swing in trees therefore Tarzan is a monkey", as the title of this thread proves the game equivalent is that where we have "X is a combat logger" and you can replace X with pirate/bounty hunter/trader/miner/6 foot tall blue hedgehog as required. If a group of players want to RP their way around the galaxy in a lifestyle derived from 1950s Disney tropes then fair play to them, it's only a game after all. Combat logging itself is the problem and it's not an easy one to solve, conflating that with the previously mentioned X doesn't really mean anything.

 

[Riktar]

Not to get into the semantics of morality, but this is true of everyone. We have decided on a course of behaviour and have stuck to it.

Making blanket statements to address a specific point? That's pure avoidance.

But hey, play your way. That's your right.

Just don't expect anyone to buy into the whole "Code Honour".

"Code Rules" would be more appropriate.

 

[Birdovous]

Easy, find a safe spot in deep space, throttle down, log out. As long as you're in the middle of nowhere you should be reasonably safe.

Not only you would be reasonably safe... You would be totally safe as long as you drop out of SC with no other players around in that SC instance to pick up your drop wake signature. As there are no "probes" to scan for targets in normal space while you are in SC and the SC drop wakes are not persistent you are as safe as possible already...

 

[Riktar]

Pirates have no honor within the game. Combat logging isn't a in-universe action, it's a meta-game exploit and as such has nothing to do with whatever occupation you've chosen or your (lack of a) code of honor in-game.
Pirates don't combat log, players do. Some of them are pirates, some of them are traders, etc..

Agreed.

I just wanted to make a specific point to a specific statement by a specific player,,,,,,,

 

[Gracey Field]

The trouble with your ship sitting aimlessly in space whilst someone carries on attacking you is the fact that ED is fraught with issues. Just take a look at the forum and count how many post there is of ED booting players off left, right and centre. Can't count the times I was almost at the point of taking down a 83,000Cr bounty only to have ED suddenly fail, luckily my drop outs were only AI.

 

[djbordie]

how is this not implemented yet?
it is a very hot topic in any mmo sandbox, persistent game. Usually implemented in the alpha/beta stages.
dayz and arma have the ghost idea, simply put you alt f4 and your "character" lingers for 5 more minutes.

Also just grey out the save and exit option unless you are:
A: not in combat
B: if in combat or anything similar, wait 10-15 seconds at the menu screen

if alt f4, then ship ghosts for a few minutes


then this brings in the whiner crowd saying they lost their geared up ship due to a computer crash and the result of this lingering ship

so who knows...combat logging has to be punished.

what is the point of any game that allows cheating, specially these vast mmo types

 

[Commander Silex]

I think it would be a fairly safe assumption that, in most cases, the Pirates complaining about combat logging are probably not the same pirates you see combat logging. Without doubt there will be a few hypocrites, but it is a bit spurious to imply all pirates fall into both camps simultaneously.

 

[Hitsuke]

Just bind self-destruct to Alt-F4 in a ninja patch and don't allow for rebinding those keys.

It would be great watching the qq threads roll in.

 

[LARY STARKEEPER]

Ships should stay in game for many minutes even after your log-out.

 

[Anopheles]

Just bind self-destruct to Alt-F4 in a ninja patch and don't allow for rebinding those keys.

It would be great watching the qq threads roll in.

I'm fairly sure asking to players to cheat is against some kind of rule, as well as common decency.

 

[CMDR i Tetsuo]

how is this not implemented yet?
it is a very hot topic in any mmo sandbox, persistent game. Usually implemented in the alpha/beta stages.
dayz and arma have the ghost idea, simply put you alt f4 and your "character" lingers for 5 more minutes.

Also just grey out the save and exit option unless you are:
A: not in combat
B: if in combat or anything similar, wait 10-15 seconds at the menu screen

if alt f4, then ship ghosts for a few minutes


then this brings in the whiner crowd saying they lost their geared up ship due to a computer crash and the result of this lingering ship

so who knows...combat logging has to be punished.

what is the point of any game that allows cheating, specially these vast mmo types

You can't compare the solutions from games based around central servers to those based on a peer-to-peer network as they don't work in the same way hence the reason FD haven't done as you suggest. Using the method from DayZ etc,There's probably a way for an unscrupulous player to make it seem like their opponent has combat-logged just to then have a stationary AI controlled target take over to make assault easier. There's probably some things FD can do to avoid it happening all the time but the biggest solution would be if everyone just stopped bloody doing it...

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Ships should stay in game for many minutes even after your log-out.

Whose game? As the instance we're playing in could exist on my PC or maybe yours, this is the nature of peer-to-peer. What if for valid reasons you drop out of the session being hosted on my PC, should you be replaced by an AI in my version of the game? Would you like to log back in later to discover you were destroyed without ever seeing me attack you?

 

[kilvenny]

I would profile CMDR behaviour. Look at the log of login and log out behaviour and network drops. Record when cmdr enters and leaves combat. Normal profile would be login in, enter combat, end combat logout. A combat logger would likely shows login, enter combat, network drop, network up. Even if there are network drops it will be more common after entering combat for a combat logger.

 

[Alvatore]

Flew out of Leesti, and sure enough I got interdicted by cmdr x in his Clipper: "Drop your cargo, or you die!" He cried. I'm not carrying any cargo fool...

I will never understand why people fly around demanding cargo without first fitting a cargo scanner to verify there's anything to take. Even NPC pirates have cargo scanners.

Why they use a P2P mix system rather than a full client/server system is beyond me.

So you'd like to start paying a subscription then, to support the exponentially higher operation costs of maintaining those servers?

 

[Midnight_Wyvern]

There really needs to be some way to prevent that from working so people stick around for fights. On several occasions I've had players Alt+F4 the moment they lose an Interdiction to me.

 

[Blastbeats]

I don't think everyone quite understands the dilemma here.




Most MMO's use the model on the top. All computers talk to one server. Most of the time it is actually a cluster of multiple computers, but your computer only sees it as one server. Your client tells the server where you are, what actions you are taking, and where you are going. It runs it's calculations, then reports back to your client where your opponent is, what your opponent is doing, and where your opponent is going. This is considered an arbiter. If one player logs off, the server can take over temporarily, and decide the fate of that player based on preset parameters.

Elite: Dangerous, on the other hand, uses the model on the bottom. It essentially connects both computers together, hence the term "peer-to-peer". Remember Kazaa, Bear Share, etc? Most of those used Peer to Peer technologies, which connects two clients together, relying solely on each client's connection to each other to send data. There is no arbiter, so everything is determined based on the parameters set by the client itself, which does not account for a lot of variables that a normal server could. In this scenario, if one player stops sending or receiving data, the other player's client has no idea where they are, what happened to them, and can no longer send information or report back any information. You are essentially, a ghost.

To give a (bad) analogy. The difference between the two would be the difference between communicating with someone using Teamspeak or Ventrilo, vs communicating with someone directly by calling them on your cell phone. If you are talking to someone on a cell phone, and the call drops, their line will hang up immediately.

TLDR: The reason why there is no easy solution on punishment, or how to handle combat loggers, is because in a peer to peer infrastructure, it is very easy to fool the other opponents client, and make it look like you lost connection to the game, by blocking ports, unplugging the router, Alt+F4, etc.