Fair enough if that's what you think. To me, however, they look like a lot of effort went in and was super successful. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree?
Planet Zoo - Colour Variation
- Thread starter Chante Goodman
- Start date
Fair enough if that's what you think. To me, however, they look like a lot of effort went in and was super successful. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree?
While I definately understand the wolf enthusiasts here and they have a point, we should not forget that this is a FREE Update. Frontier won't earn much additional money with it (as I don't think it will influence new sales a lot), but has put major work into it. Basically unpaid work to react to feedback those of us have, who already bought the game. Of course those will support the game further with buying DLCs, but at the end of the day, the development time for free updates is and will ever be also financially restricted.
I'm not a coding expert, but I am very sure it is much cheaper and faster to implement an undertone under a texture, that can be replicated, as it is to create a few hundred new textures. Because it could not be "just" wolfs then. At the end of the day, this is Planet Zoo and not WolfQuest nor Planet Wolf.
What I hope for is kind if a color wheel range in undertones, that leads to not only light, medium and dark shades of a color in all animals effected, but looking at the pictures, it'll probably be "just" that. Three tones for each. And I can settle with that, because I get this improvement for free and as I can't effort to work for month for free for my customers, because they have extra detailed wishes, so can't Frontier. And remember, we have still a lot of other stuff on our list we would likem to see as a free update, so maaaybe being a little less demanding on one single feature would be cool.
I'm not a coding expert, but I am very sure it is much cheaper and faster to implement an undertone under a texture, that can be replicated, as it is to create a few hundred new textures. Because it could not be "just" wolfs then. At the end of the day, this is Planet Zoo and not WolfQuest nor Planet Wolf.
What I hope for is kind if a color wheel range in undertones, that leads to not only light, medium and dark shades of a color in all animals effected, but looking at the pictures, it'll probably be "just" that. Three tones for each. And I can settle with that, because I get this improvement for free and as I can't effort to work for month for free for my customers, because they have extra detailed wishes, so can't Frontier. And remember, we have still a lot of other stuff on our list we would likem to see as a free update, so maaaybe being a little less demanding on one single feature would be cool.
Been reading this tread and I just want to say: be a bit more mindful about what you type. I stumble across many words like “lazy”, “should be easy”, “it is dissapointing”. Those are words that in no way are motivating to the developers. Try to imagine how you would like to read those words on a project you are proud of? Bet you wouldn’t like it.
For the wolf people I would say: I appreciate your dedication to the animal, but keep in mind this game isn’t a game focussed on wolves only (as wolf quest), they got an ark full of animals to tend to. Some are good suggestions, like the coat variations. Just keep in mind this game is a zoo building game there is only a such an amount of attention they can give the animal before moving on. Most of the time you dont even watch the animals that close. I think its very generous of the Planet Zoo team that they revisit older species to give them an upgrade, while people are also screaming for new content.
For the wolf people I would say: I appreciate your dedication to the animal, but keep in mind this game isn’t a game focussed on wolves only (as wolf quest), they got an ark full of animals to tend to. Some are good suggestions, like the coat variations. Just keep in mind this game is a zoo building game there is only a such an amount of attention they can give the animal before moving on. Most of the time you dont even watch the animals that close. I think its very generous of the Planet Zoo team that they revisit older species to give them an upgrade, while people are also screaming for new content.
Ha! We posted at the same time
Great minds think alikeHa! We posted at the same time
Nobody has "shown" me anything, as a matter of fact.
See, the problem with this argument is... this is something that should have been in the game in the first place, at launch. The uniqueness and individualism and realism of the animals was literally an advertisement point in early game promos. We were told animals would all look unique from eachother, even have their own personalities, but we don't have that, at all.
And now we're finally getting an update for some of what should have been included at launch in the first place, but it still seems to be severely lacking. I get that this isn't "Planet Wolf", but if you're going to include an animal in your roster with that much color and pattern diversity, you should at least make an attempt to do the animal justice, otherwise... why even include it at all?
Part of the fun of games like this is breeding and seeing the cool colors and patterns you can end up with... but if there's no actual variation beyond just basic color changes, then... it's not nearly as fun to breed.
It's why I prefer Sims 3 over Sims 4 when it comes to playing with pets. In Sims 3, you have all these different layered markings and whatnot that can mix/match and pass onto offspring. In Sims 4... offspring can only be carbon copies of their parents, or just take on one of the default preset coats, which makes breeding completely boring and has no surprise factor at all.
It's the same idea with Planet Zoo. Right now, I enjoy breeding cheetahs more than ANY other animal ingame because right now, cheetahs are the most varied. They have at least 3 different coat colors, as well as a bunch of different spot marking textures that can be anywhere on the body and mix/matched in such a way that even in a large group, they're all somewhat unique and it's interesting to see what might be produced.
But you can't deny that there is a problem when cheetahs have more overall uniqueness and variation than wolves, one of the MOST diverse species in coat color, patterns, markings, etc. on the planet.
Most IRL cheetahs will look more or less similar in terms of coat color, minus differences in spot pattern, but wolves come in a MASSIVE range of coat colors and fur patterns. Cheetahs come in... yellow and orange and shades in between. Wolves come in gray, black, white, brown, cream, tan, silver, red- and even wolves of the same 'color type' can look very different from eachother via having different markings.
At launch, cheetahs got color variants.
Wolves did not, and were all 100% carbon copies of eachother, not a single bit of variation in the least, despite being THE MOST varied species IRL, pretty much.
Now, with the update, it looks as if these wolf variants are just hue changes done in photoshop to the base wolf texture, and no other differences in coats, which isn't accurate in the slightest. A real brown wolf would not look like a basic gray wolf just with a color change.
It kind of makes it look like the devs just straight up don't like/don't care about the wolves at all, which makes me wonder why they even bothered adding them into the game in the first place instead of another animal they are more interested in giving attention to.
The main reason I'm bringing up wolves in specific is because they are the most major example for this- an animal with EXTREME levels of coat/pattern variation realistically, but received 0 attention or care in the game compared to other animals that realistically have much less variation.
I'd just like to see more care and attention given to the existing animals in the game that sorely need it. I don't really want more DLCs until the BASE GAME is actually finished with all of the features we were initially promised, and all the existing animals are fully fleshed out- and that includes animals like wolves being given the attention they deserve, which means at the very least different types of patterns for the different coat colors, or markings like the tigers/cheetahs/wild dogs have.
Or, the ideas listed above, i.e.a WolfQuest-style coat and color system.
This... There were things that they advertised the game with, that are not in the game. So this 'update' and other things that they mentioned that would be in the game should have been released at launche
Yes it was and I agree that it was not exactly a good move to then actually not making them unique. It's the same with unique behaviour that was advertised but is not implemented yet. However, uniquness of 70+ animals can only go so far, before it is simply too much work. They can not work for 7 years on a game without any income and sell it for 50 bucks then. But that is what highly advanced feautures would require. Unlike The Sims, we have a huge animal rooster to take into account, not just one single species (human, if you compare it to the sims). And keep in mind, that the variety isn't even important for some peoples playstyle. It is for mine, but there are also a lot players who didn't even want variations, or who are perfectly fine with what we'll get now.
In my opinion, we are now getting what was advertised, concerning the fur variations. There will be variations. And as much as I would love it to be a breeding simulator with even more variety, as I'm a breeding ethusiasts myself: it is none. And that is fine, because Frontier has a lot other playstyles to cater as well. Speak to the managment players for example, and they'll give you a long list.
And with the Cheetah pattern being more unique: I think the original model is already splitted into "parts", so variations occur on these parts, leading to a higher variation range. Including this into wolves might be like building a new model, I'd assume. Which, again, wouldn't be cost effective. And you make it sound like Frontier doesn't care about wolves... which is a bit too emotional for me, really. I bet we will see the same "problem" with indian elephants not having pattern variation still after the update. Or lions having variations in mane size. And I'm actually at this point am not too sure if llamas will have pattern variations.
i agree with the first part, but how can things like skin variants be a bonus, if that (and other things) should be in the game since release (I mean: you can not say : we have this and this in the game, but end up with not doing that at release..)
While I agree with your general view that we already have a great zoo game, I have to disagree with the words I bolded. As already mentioned by others before, each animal uniqueness (not only physically but also psychologically) was something which was announced to be in the game before launch so it's not exactly a bonus. Roughly 10 months after release we'll probably get 3-4 fur color variants for some species at most. While I am perfectly fine with that, I can understand people who are concerned about some animals like wolves, african wild dogs and llamas, given that they have a huge range of different patterns irl. Who knows, maybe those images are just little teasers and Frontier surprises us all again with a wide variety of fur textures for these species. I really hope so!I must be one of the only people who's happy just to have a decent zoo game.
Bug fixes are of course expected and necessary, but features such as variant skin and all the changes they made to Sandbox mode are things I consider a very real bonus.
Also, I believe people really need to respect those who show their concerns about some game features/content. It's good to appreciate Frontier's outstanding work and products but some criticism can also be good, especially if done by people who I'm sure also love the game and want the best for it. So far I have not seen anyone demanding anything here and those posts about wolves were written in a very respectful and constructive way. Note that they're only requesting pattern variants for 3 species at most (those with huge fur variety irl) and not more.
The way you play the game is not the base line for everybody else, nor is my style of play in that matter.
Because I play the game not only because of the breeding, but just for making the best zoo ever in regards to habitats and (guest) facilities. And for me, that does not only cover the animals but also everything around it. I really believe the animals are superbly made, and adding these variations can only make them better.
I get people like to breed, and massively produce offspring in simple and totally not interesting habitats, but for me there's no fun in that. (not saying that is the way you play, but seen plenty of examples of people who do that).
I must be one of the only people who's happy just to have a decent zoo game.
Bug fixes are of course expected and necessary, but features such as variant skin and all the changes they made to Sandbox mode are things I consider a very real bonus.
I'm sure there are more people that enjoy the game, than there are people that are not.
This I don't get.
I respect people's opinion, and I can see where people who have a different opinion do the same.
So why would you think people show no respect to people's opinion?
Just because they look at it from a different angle, and have a different opinion?
Should you be the person stating this? Or shouldn't this be a matter of the moderators?
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Presumably you'll be able to find something to show that they promised animals would ' all look unique from each other' (key word in bold).
Really? I've seen the words 'lazy' and 'not much / no effort' used a fair bit. If someone came to your workplace and described your work like that would you think they were being 'very respectful and constructive'?
I think it's well within my right as a customer to voice any concerns - and, indeed, even complaints - I have about a product I paid for, especially in regards to features that were advertised and not delivered. As random goat said, constructive criticism is just as important - if not more important - than praise to an artist, and I say that as an artist myself. I stand by my comment that I think the coats for the wolves in the image we were provided look lazy - if I were given the base coat, I could take that image into any photo editing software and produce each of those other two or three coats we see in just a minute or two each, as could anyone with any knowledge of said software. Unless there's a color range mechanic involved, or there are more unique patterns we weren't shown, there's really no reason to put so little apparent effort into those particular skins. Simple tonal tweaks are fine for most of the in-game species, but with wolves and a few others, which have vast ranges of colors and patterns in real life, it just doesn't look right to me. It's fine if some of you are alright with the images given, but I, and clearly several other people, are not. As long as people aren't being overly rude or demanding (which I really don't think we have been), I don't see why it should be an issue that we voice our concerns on the subject.
It says right on the homepage of the game's website: "Meet a world of incredible animals. From playful lion cubs to mighty elephants, every animal in Planet Zoo is a thinking, feeling individual with a distinctive look and personality of their own. Craft detailed habitats to bring your animals’ natural environments home, research and manage each species to allow them to thrive, and help your animals raise families to pass their genes onto future generations."
Not "every species", "every individual animal". It would be one thing if the coat variations were never advertised, and then this update was teased and people were still complaining about it, but that's not the case. This was a huge advertising point from the very start, and clearly still is.
At the end of the day, the game certainly has many more things that also need fixing and tweaking, not the least of which include bugfixes, gameplay improvements, and general quality-of-life updates, but for me, variation in animal appearance and behavior is a huge one. I bought the game for the animals, and for the advertised individuality even among animals of the same species, and the fact that they have so little, if anything, to differentiate between them is a big disappointment for me. No, the game isn't about mass breeding for me, it's about building the best zoo possible for the animals, and then watching said animals as they interact with their environment and with each other in unique ways. I want to be able to bond with my animals, but right now I can't, because each looks and acts exactly (or near enough) the same as every other of its species. I quickly lose interest in each zoo I start, because what's the point in building a pretty zoo and excellent habitats when the animals have so little life and individuality?
It says right on the homepage of the game's website: "Meet a world of incredible animals. From playful lion cubs to mighty elephants, every animal in Planet Zoo is a thinking, feeling individual with a distinctive look and personality of their own. Craft detailed habitats to bring your animals’ natural environments home, research and manage each species to allow them to thrive, and help your animals raise families to pass their genes onto future generations."
Not "every species", "every individual animal". It would be one thing if the coat variations were never advertised, and then this update was teased and people were still complaining about it, but that's not the case. This was a huge advertising point from the very start, and clearly still is.
At the end of the day, the game certainly has many more things that also need fixing and tweaking, not the least of which include bugfixes, gameplay improvements, and general quality-of-life updates, but for me, variation in animal appearance and behavior is a huge one. I bought the game for the animals, and for the advertised individuality even among animals of the same species, and the fact that they have so little, if anything, to differentiate between them is a big disappointment for me. No, the game isn't about mass breeding for me, it's about building the best zoo possible for the animals, and then watching said animals as they interact with their environment and with each other in unique ways. I want to be able to bond with my animals, but right now I can't, because each looks and acts exactly (or near enough) the same as every other of its species. I quickly lose interest in each zoo I start, because what's the point in building a pretty zoo and excellent habitats when the animals have so little life and individuality?
So, if i came to your gallery opening / recital / whatever, and loudly walked around announcing that I thought your work was lazy and showed no effort you would say that i was being very respectful and constructive?... I doubt it.
You can interpret 'every animal' either as 'every individual' or 'every species' - The phrase is ambiguous. (though I agree the implication is strong)
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I don't know if your questions are rhetorical. In case they are not:
Should you be the person stating this? Yes, since it's my opinion and I'm free to express it. Note that I said 'I believe' at the beginning of the paragraph.
Or shouldn't this be a matter of the moderators? Maybe? I guess it's up to them, the moderators. In any case I think it's them the moderators and not someone else who decide what people should write or should not write.
Why do you usually have to take things personally when someone criticise the game?
Anyway, regarding your other questions. I think some people sometimes show no respect to those who give even the slightest criticism to the game. Not only in this topic but in others. If it weren't for people expressing their discontent/feedback, we probably wouldn't have had adjustments to the fast animal aging, fur variation, etc. We might even get more animals per pack at some point thanks to that. Sure, not every critique is legitimate or constructive, but trying to censure them by saying something along the lines of 'this is not a wolf simulator/Planet Wolf', 'no matter what they get,people are never happy', 'people nowadays are too demanding', etc. is, in my eyes, not very respectful.
Yes, I actually agree that 'lazy' is probably an unfortunate word. So, my bad on that one. However, saying 'not much effort was put into this' and justifying that opinion with arguments (at least for them) is valid feedback imo. It's not like people come here venting and then go onto something else. They gave reasons to support their point. If a customer tells me I'm not putting enough effort/I should improve on X task for Y reasons it can be tough in the beginning but it should motivate me to make things better next time.
It's not ambiguous. Don't be abstruse! (no offense!
)Here is the whole sentence again: 'From playful lion cubs to mighty elephants, every animal in Planet Zoo is a thinking, feeling individual with a distinctive look and personality of their own.'
Sorry for the kinda off-topic. Fur variations, in whatever form they come, are still more than welcome to me.
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I agree.. major parts of what they advertised are not in the game. They even mentioned an example in a livestream before the (beta) launche: that you can have an angry bear, and that you need to make the habitat right for him, find a suitable mate that can handle the 'personality', or you can sell him to someone else... have someone ever see these things???? No, because this is not in the game
So not only the coat colors are not in game, also the individuality isn't, since every animal sleep, walk, eat, drink the same... If i follow 3 cubs, they do the same and there is no personality (and sometimes with a delay of like 3 seconds, but it is still the same)..
It's not ambiguous. Don't be abstruse! (no offense!
None taken, although i generally try to be easily understood where possible.