Planetary dropoff

[Jmanis]

Not an appeal to authority, but to expertise.

Same thing. "I'm (am/have done/am doing) X therefore I'm right".

If you want to convince me I'm wrong,

And when I do, what then? You'll challenge that? Just concede?

Here's a couple questions, just to start with. And I'm deliberately being opaque as to the relevance of these questions.

• Where does Voice Attack comes in to things? Have you even thought about it?
• Are you suggesting Software Developers have full remit to do whatever they want with the UI?
• So when does testing happen? Or are we just going "Passed unit tests, ship it" here?
• Thought about localisation?
• Default shortcut key?

Not going to lie, there's traps in those questions. Have fun.

 

[WreckRoot]

Same thing. "I'm (am/have done/am doing) X therefore I'm right".

Jmanis talks to a mother of five:
J: I think women fake it when they claim giving birth hurts
M: hmm... I actually can give you firsthand experience that it does actually hurt
J: pffff appeal to authority 🖐

Appeal to authority is a fallacy when you rely on the authority of the person, not on their expertise in the subject. Don't just throw around smart phrases without understanding what they are. Makes you sound like an apologist.

Argument from authority - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And when I do, what then? You'll challenge that? Just concede?

Ultimately what I want is to know what the truth is. I'm not here to force my opinion. If I'm wrong, I want to know I'm wrong, and the first step to knowing is becoming convinced. Hence, I'm looking (through provocation, admittedly) for convincing arguments and evidence. Should you convince me, I will be convinced and concede.

Here's a couple questions, just to start with. And I'm deliberately being opaque as to the relevance of these questions.

• Where does Voice Attack comes in to things? Have you even thought about it?

No, I have not. Good point. That said, isn't it just a third party tool that interprets voice and activates in game shortcuts based on them? If the game allows for a shortcut to the function then FDev need not be concerned with whether or not some third party tool takes that into account. It's up to the third party to catch up.

• Are you suggesting Software Developers have full remit to do whatever they want with the UI?

Developers do to the UI what they're told to do by the ticket and what lands on the ticket comes from the PM/PO/SM, depending on team structure. If the right person says "do" you do.

• So when does testing happen? Or are we just going "Passed unit tests, ship it" here?
• Thought about localisation?

Perhaps that's where there's a misunderstanding between us.

• As a software developer, the natural definition of "implementation" to me is the programming definition, meaning that I have an interface or an abstract class and I write the actual class/method that performs the contracted functionality.
• In a project context, I understand "implementation" as the part where the developer "makes it work" and "time to implement" as time required for developer to "make it work". For example, when I get literally asked "how long will it take you implement this?", the person asking me always wants to know how long it will take me to code the feature, not how long somebody else takes later to package it.
• When referring to the entire time required from idea to production, including concept art, deliberation, prioritisation, visual design, scrum activities (i.e. splitting into tasks, estimation, creating tickets and user stories, ceremonies), change management, code review, QA, adding unit tests, localization, user testing, documentation, security check, packaging etc. I would call it "time to release", "time to publish" or "time to production".

From the very beginning I believe I was clear enough that I meant just the developer's work.

• Default shortcut key?

Doesn't have to exist, hundreds of functions don't have them. As long as the shortcut exists on the list and is bindable, I consider it case closed. The way I structured shortcut management in my applications would require a total of 1 minute to implement.

Not going to lie, there's traps in those questions. Have fun.

I'm curious to hear what the traps were. Hit me

 

[WreckRoot]

That's what I said. When you are on the ground. Jumping from a flying ship would also require "Jesus take the wheel" programming.

It feels like we're talking in different languages.

You indicate that it's some sort of a difficulty to make your ship fly away by itself.
I indicate that there shouldn't be any difficulty because the ship can already fly away by itself.

And from a game code's perspective there is no difference between "ship flies itself" and "NPC is flying a ship". The ship is controlled by the game in both cases, the NPC at the stick is just eyecandy, it does not come with any additional ship-controlling code that the game engine requires for the ship to fly itself. If the Frontline Solutions vulture can drop you off and fly away, there is zero reason why your ship wouldn't be able to do it by itself as it drops you off.

 

[Jmanis]

Jmanis talks to a mother of five:
J: I think women fake it when they claim giving birth hurts
M: hmm... I actually can give you firsthand experience that it does actually hurt
J: pffff appeal to authority 🖐

Appeal to authority is a fallacy when you rely on the authority of the person, not on their expertise in the subject. Don't just throw around smart phrases without understanding what they are. Makes you sound like an apologist.

Nothing of the sort.

Rather, I'm calling out the one woman who genuinely had a painless birth, and who is now claiming that, by extension, all birth must be painless, and that other women claiming it is painful are mistaken.

Unless of course, you're claiming first- hand knowledge of FDs codebase and development processes. In which case, your expertise is noted, and generally irrelevant.

From the very beginning I believe I was clear enough that I meant just the developer's work.

I'm just gonna cut to the chase right here.
You said:

You have all the pieces already in place, this literally shouldn't require more than a few hours to implement, you have all the assets and all the logic and everything else already developed and ready to be reused.

Are you seriously suggesting that you, a software development professional, would tell a customer that you could implement a suggestion in a few hours, and when that customer came back in a few hours and said "Why can't I see that change?" you'd tell them "Oh no, I just meant cutting the code! Getting it out there is going to take maybe a month or more!".

Yeah I'm done. I can't argue when we're making up fictional definitions of words.

 

[Ronzer]

Not sure what it takes to get things to work, but thought maybe it's a good time to ask if anyone recalls way back in the Odyssey beta when the Apex shuttles had 4 seats? But, also, that even though the seats were there, I dont recall that ever working.
My guess is that in-house, when they were testing out Odyssey, it all worked. But I have this recurring suspicion that just because something works in-house, does not mean it works over the internets. Does anyone know what happened with those seats, and that whole setup? Did they pull it because they knew it'd lead to fun and more players?

 

[WreckRoot]

Nothing of the sort.

Rather, I'm calling out the one woman who genuinely had a painless birth, and who is now claiming that, by extension, all birth must be painless, and that other women claiming it is painful are mistaken.

No, you literally imply I know nothing about software development even though I've been doing that for 9 years now. Just how long does one have to do the very thing we're talking about before you admit they are justified in believing that they know something about that thing? 20 years? 50 years? On what basis do you claim my 9 years of experience are irrelevant?

Unless of course, you're claiming first- hand knowledge of FDs codebase and development processes. In which case, your expertise is noted, and generally irrelevant.

Haha nice! Do you really meant to say this? That if I had first hand knowledge of FDs codebase and processes then my expertise would be generally irrelevant?
Geez man, do you really need 3rd degree burns before you acknowledge that the weather isn't too cold for comfort?

I'm just gonna cut to the chase right here.
You said:

Are you seriously suggesting that you, a software development professional, would tell a customer that you could implement a suggestion in a few hours

If I were talking to the CLIENT, I would say "It requires a few hours to implement, but the change won't hit production before it goes through the rest of the process and get packaged with other changes, ETA X weeks". And I'm having such conversations on a weekly basis.

But when I talk to a software developer, AS WAS THE CASE HERE when I addressed FDev, or when my team leader / scrum master asks me how long something takes to implement, it is obvious to us that it is the developer's effort we're talking about here.

Yeah I'm done. I can't argue when we're making up fictional definitions of words.

a schmuck on a forum tells a software developer of 9 years experience that he just "made up fictional definitions of words", when it's the vocabulary he and his entire department have been using for the past 9 years on a daily basis.

You sir are like flatearther telling an astronaut that he can't have been to space cause earth is flat. Just stop.

 

[thistle]

9 years experience, an achievement no doubt.

It's interesting though that many 'schmucks' here have been on this forum for around that same amount of time, and working in software for decades before ED even existed.

But 9 years, yikes, there's no arguing with that logic.

 

[Factabulous]

On what basis do you claim my 9 years of experience are irrelevant?

Read literally any of your posts. You outed yourself. Unconscious Incompetence

 

[Greasetrap42]

Are you seriously suggesting that you, a software development professional...

At a certain point it becomes apparent that there is no basis in furthering a discussion.

 

[Hellrider]

Did they pull it because they knew it'd lead to fun and more players?

Have you ever tried multicrew?
No bro, additional seats in taxi would lead to rage and complains, because you would have nearly 100% for disconnect of one of the squadmates, if your route would be longer than single cruise and single drop.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

You should be aware that you're not talking dev to dev to Frontier here; the probably never stumble in here. The suggestion forum is nothing but a dumping ground so all the crazy ideas don't clog up the other forums.

And while being able to drop from above might be a nice addition, I have no clue if it's easy or not. I'm just a heart surgeon in my spare time.

 

[rootsrat]

[Mod hat on]

I think it's time to step back from the keyboards for a bit and refresh the forum rules knowledge.

In other words, stop the handbagging. Discuss the topic, not the poster. That works both ways.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

[Mod hat on]

I think it's time to step back from the keyboards for a bit and refresh the forum rules knowledge.

In other words, stop the handbagging. Discuss the topic, not the poster. That works both ways.

If nothing, I just learned on this thread what handbagging is. Not sure I wanted to know.

 

[SteveWW57]

If nothing, I just learned on this thread what handbagging is. Not sure I wanted to know.

Handbags at Dawn?

Steve

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

Handbags at Dawn?

Steve

I mean it. Don't look it up in the Urban Dictionary unlessbyou really, really want to. You have been warned.

 

[aRJay]

I mean it. Don't look it up in the Urban Dictionary unlessbyou really, really want to. You have been warned.

Better or worse than Teabagging?

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

Worse. Or better. Depends on the perspective.

 

[Fizzatron]

I'm not a dev but I see both sides here. I think it's fair to say that implementing a hover disembark is a feature that would be an addition to already existing mechanics/assets and therefore logically, though still relatively, more simple than ship interiors accessible during flight or gas giants etc.. I think focusing the quantified amount of dev time is somewhat besides the point to the fact and it's then true to say that it's hard to lock down specifics in that regard, but again, I think that's beside the point. The one thing that would be pretty awesome that I mentioned in my first response is that if we could disembark like that then it would also open the possibility to board like that using our jet packs, which I think could be even cooler, especially if there was an emergency extract option added to the recall that overrides the 'move 500m from settlement' restriction but then opens the ship up to destruction by base defenses. However, I can't say how easy that would be to implement based on other dependencies, technical issues etc.

Overall, and arguing aside. I think it's a great suggestion that I hope would be given some attention and consideration by FDev. It seems certainly more doable than 'ship interiors plz' type requests - speaking as one who also wants ship interiors btw. o7

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

I was going to write something snarky, but I'm afraid I'd get a warning again. How about we leave it at "good idea, never going to happen". And next time, being a bit more quiet and modest when bringing forth your suggestion might actually lead to a meaningful discussion of the suggestion instead of a bragfast of everyone knowing best.

 

[Schmack]

It feels like we're talking in different languages.

You indicate that it's some sort of a difficulty to make your ship fly away by itself.
I indicate that there shouldn't be any difficulty because the ship can already fly away by itself.

No, I am not talking about programming difficulty. I am talking about narrative difficulty. It has to make sense. This is why I said "magically". It's bad enough from an immersion perspective that a ship cannot auto dock without that module but can auto land and depart from a planet surface.

And from a game code's perspective there is no difference between "ship flies itself" and "NPC is flying a ship". The ship is controlled by the game in both cases, the NPC at the stick is just eyecandy, it does not come with any additional ship-controlling code that the game engine requires for the ship to fly itself. If the Frontline Solutions vulture can drop you off and fly away, there is zero reason why your ship wouldn't be able to do it by itself as it drops you off.

Just as there's no difference between jumping between two systems 10LY apart and jumping between two systems 65K LY apart, but could you imagine creating that FSD that gives a single jump to anywhere? Or to simply drop out of super cruise where ever you are targeted on the navigation panel instantly? There needs to be a meaningful narrative. If Apex can drop you but only in conflict zones, it's because Apex uses a drop ship. You want your ship to have the same functions of a drop ship since that's already "in the game". Other than the coolness factor that would wear off after a few times, what gameplay does it bring that's needed in non-conflict zone activities?

We are forced to find landing places if we want to get out on foot. Apex will not drop you above anything but a conflict zone, else they too must land.