......but the question remains "how much info?" A discovery scanner that literally reveals more than 90% of the info on *every" planet in a system-even those with 3 or 4 stars-is so OP it almost hurts. Why are people so afraid to actually *explore*?!?! You know, actually leave the comfort of the primary star & plunge outward towards some mostly unknown gravitational anomaly?
Player Agency in Exploration - Why the 3.3 Honk needs a buff
- Thread starter Mengy
- Start date
......but the question remains "how much info?" A discovery scanner that literally reveals more than 90% of the info on *every" planet in a system-even those with 3 or 4 stars-is so OP it almost hurts. Why are people so afraid to actually *explore*?!?! You know, actually leave the comfort of the primary star & plunge outward towards some mostly unknown gravitational anomaly?
Tell me during beta, how many times you use the new scanner, before you have mastered it. I'm keen to hear opinions. Because I dont think repeating a new task endlessly, is going to be much better than the honk.
Ya'll arguing semantics like it even matters. After 50 times I reckon this new contraption will be no less liked than the honk because it suffers the same issue.
It's the only option. Frontier have made exploration like you have a single gun and people keep saying the KWS keeps giving too much info about the ship. Meanwhile, universe still mostly empty. The biggest threat of our time isn't. Guardians still require endless duplication of effort to unlock.
BUT IT SHOWS TOO MUCH! Too much of what? Endless empty systems, many of which look the same? Fascinating - do tell me more. And sitting still near a star looking for space
My God. Take a step back and apply some critical thinking. Maybe the problem has never been the honk showing all the planets. It's that its reinforcing how EMPTY it is. Over and over again. That's the true crime. It just shows the lie for what it is.
There is no mystery. The ADS doesn't remove the mystery, when there is none to begin with. Frontier designed a beautiful, huge, and yet desperately barren and empty universe. The ADS rams that home, every, single, time.
And the new system? Will only serve to drag that out more. People will be hunting and looking and not finding a thing. System. After system. After system. Sound familiar?
Nah, ADS isn't actually the important bit. It's just exposing the magic trick, only there's no magic. Its frontier gifting the universe some life and flavour. POI and USS will make or break the new system. And I have no idea if Frontier even recognize that; it seems the forums almost universally don't
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![[Diplomacy] Carnegie](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/123/123809.jpg?1553527149){kind=avatar}
A sad mischaracterisation.
kofeyh perfectly and eloquently wrote about it in his response to the same post your good self has just did...
I hope you read and understand it.
So you didn't think it would have been a problem if Frontier had the thargoids wade through the bubble and lay waste and put people at risk of a loving caustic embrace because "rather afraid to lose a convenient habit while at the same can't imagine to adopt a totally new way of playing the game" then?
Because rather a lot of people told frontier dont they dare. You wouldn't have, I presume, being up for adopting a new way of playing. I guess that's different? Sure. Okay.
Was the same for engineered NPCs. Adopt? Hahaha no. Frontier made them far more pliable. Your words are I am sure well meaning, but somewhat empty.
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Lestat
Banned
I have to agree with Marc.
I'm simply suggesting what brand of binoculars you use, doesn't fundamentally change what's being viewed. And that what we use to view the game universe, is perhaps less relevant than it having something to view in the first place.
ADS isnt hated because its single button. It's because there is precious little there to see. There is a romantic notion of delayed gratifocation solving that fundamental issue.
Frontier I would have hoped, would focus on the universe sim itself, adding texture and flavour and some sort of set of experiences to showcase this amazing galaxy they have.
But they haven't. Lord I hope the USS and POI have had a makeover, because what people seem to fail to grasp, is that after a dozen or so times, the new system will be like the old one. Proving the point. Only it'll just take longer.
And heaven forbid, but if the new system does become a hurdle, then how often will people use it?
Beta will tell us these things. So I do and will encourage every single commander to get in there and thrash this to within an inch of its life. Don't "wait and see" after beta, don't be apathetic. Get involved. Give it a solid go.
It might be amazing. But this was said for the 25+ guardian blueprints and how bad could it be? I just hate seeing history repeating and good work by frontier thrown after bad.
We have probes in the new system. That will explore and report findings. Marc you might want to think your arguments through more. I tend to agree with you, but this is just really weird territory.
There's a bit of cognitive dissonance.
ADS isnt hated because its single button. It's because there is precious little there to see. There is a romantic notion of delayed gratifocation solving that fundamental issue.
Frontier I would have hoped, would focus on the universe sim itself, adding texture and flavour and some sort of set of experiences to showcase this amazing galaxy they have.
But they haven't. Lord I hope the USS and POI have had a makeover, because what people seem to fail to grasp, is that after a dozen or so times, the new system will be like the old one. Proving the point. Only it'll just take longer.
And heaven forbid, but if the new system does become a hurdle, then how often will people use it?
Beta will tell us these things. So I do and will encourage every single commander to get in there and thrash this to within an inch of its life. Don't "wait and see" after beta, don't be apathetic. Get involved. Give it a solid go.
It might be amazing. But this was said for the 25+ guardian blueprints and how bad could it be? I just hate seeing history repeating and good work by frontier thrown after bad.
We have probes in the new system. That will explore and report findings. Marc you might want to think your arguments through more. I tend to agree with you, but this is just really weird territory.
There's a bit of cognitive dissonance.
All a matter of logical order. You want mysteries, I want mysteries. Good possible that you are right and we won't see these mysteries anytime soon. But tell me just one thing: Imagine they actually would add these mysteries (soon or not doesn't matter in this reflection). How would you expect to find them? Should they be rubbed under your nose (in which case they aren't mysteries anymore, of course) or what are your ideas? Or should we give up at all about the idea of mysteries in the game "because they won't come anyway" (which seems to be your depressive credo)?
Please leave the Thargoids alone for a moment. They should have been introduced in a totally different way IMO. The Thargoids should have come with a giant fanfare but not due to some discrete scanner technology (and also not by GalNet news). Apples and oranges, really.
With respect, thargoids pretty much exactly are on point. Introducing them would have added a lot of new dynamics. Frontier were basically forbidden and did not induce a shock across the player base.
Me? I have no problem learning new tricks and seeing new engaging content. Because that adds more life to the galaxy. Frontiers new system, on the surface, doesnt do that. It just delays the inevitable.
If frontier had shifted the focus to be about exploration, and the journey of discovery, and not on a minigame that completely yanks you out of that? I'd probably be jazzed as hell.
And if by some miracle frontier pulls a hello games and has a true NEXT moment, I'll be more than happy to eat my words and I'll do that with a great degree of gusto.
You assume I want them to fail. It's the opposite. If I didnt care, I would simply not be here.
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Lestat
Banned
Hay It might be weird Territory Kofeyh. Unfortunately, people do use Bots in different ways. A common one is Autopilot. But It would not be hard to adjust the programming to explore a system or just the basic Honk added to it.
It looks to me ED, like you got it a bit wrong with the termination of the ADS... whatever tear scanner,
Move it to a midway point, allow the scanners to measure all* of the bodies presences through their mass and leave a white dot or whatever (Wire Frame/Black Outline) to represent it as described by more sentient players earlier... you know it's right.
* that they currently can... Basic, intermediate, and Advanced
Move it to a midway point, allow the scanners to measure all* of the bodies presences through their mass and leave a white dot or whatever (Wire Frame/Black Outline) to represent it as described by more sentient players earlier... you know it's right.
* that they currently can... Basic, intermediate, and Advanced
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I do still feel that ADS needs to be less than infinite......except for Emission/Gravity info.
So are you going to fly 350,000 ly out to find that one star and planet that might be there, in every system? Go put the BDS on, go for a drive and see how it works. Because you want everyone to do this.
If you cant even bare the thought of going out there with the BDS because the ADS exists at all, then I dont think the problem is a practical one, it's a principle one.
Frontier cant fix that. Because anything they add, might become a principle, and there is always going to be something. Always. If not ADS. Something else.
Maybe it's less ADS, more just the way the developer builds. That's not going to change. They will only ever do what they do.
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Many players have always felt the same way.
Infinite is terminal... there is no more! it leaves a kind of empty feeling sometimes, to some...
to others it's 'Job done, completion, lets move on' (sadly, I ain't one of those though)
350,000ly out... where in hells name are you starting from?
heh, yeah. LS. I'm on my phone. Autocorrect.
Hmm, missed this. But no, not really.
I am saying I want the system to be revealed, so that I can determine if I'm interested in exploring it further. To me, the process of exploration and discovery should be a process, and since we're playing a game (and before Picommander pops in to tell me that's a poor argument, I'm really sorry, but it's true), then what would make that process engaging and fun for me would be that each step of the process leads logically to the next.
1. Jump into unknown system, determine from data retrieved that it's a system worth engaging in exploring.
2. Explore further by scanning individual planets. This will reveal detailed information about the body, including makeup and any potentially interesting anomalies.
3. Fly to planet, map it using probes to discover those interesting anomalies.
To me, each step here builds upon the previous, and the player uses the information to determine whether they want to take the next step.
Sure, real explorers don't have (or more realistically haven't had) the luxury of being able to make such value judgements and in the past have had to simply take the next step and hope... But I bet they didn't do that by choice, Our own species don't just blast off a rocket and hope it bumps into the moon, they use information they have to make sure they'll get there.
There's always an element of chance, even exploring in this game. You might select specific types of stars as more likely to have interesting systems, but even then most of those systems are unremarkable, and then one day you jump into a red dwarf system, and there's an ELW orbiting it...
I simply don't see the game-play in hiding a low level overview of a system once I've decided to jump into it. As I've said before, that overview shouldn't let me shortcut the next step, just give me enough information to determine if I want to take it. After that, the new mechanics are indeed more engaging than what we have currently, and I have no problem with them.
During the beta when we had dark spheres from the ADS, I spent the entire beta exploring and it was the most fun I've ever had doing exploration. Better than DW1 by a about 65,000 LY. That simple delay of info added mystery and gave meaning to the DSS that was never there before, and that minor player involvement was enough to breathe some life back into Exploration.
I remember thinking, the only thing missing here is a signal source to analyze instead of having an automated surface scan... It's like Frontier was reading my mind.
So I have to very much disagree with your notion that the material already in game doesn't have any value. The only reason it doesn't have value to you right now is because it's been cheapened by inflation caused by ADS dumping system spoilers like it was hot biowaste.
I can however very much agree that the current level of data could also be massively improved upon, and perhaps it will via the probes? More importantly, the amount of data won't matter unless it has some impacts on future decision trees, or existing goals. A basic example is way the data is utilized and applied to things like the BGS. Currently only raw ADS honks matter which encourages mindless ADS honking and devalues skilled exploration. There are no exploration missions, let alone missions for specific planet types in specific named sectors. Likewise for Exploration CGs, which when they existed, ignored CR value and only counted ADS honks, hence encouraging mindless jonking.
I'd just like to point out that since "more new content" has yet to be announced from Frontier- simply shouting down new proposed mechanics to improve gameplay based on the lack of new introduction of content isn't really objective thinking. It's a pure bias of preference.
While I do agree BOTH need to be addressed in Q4 (IMO they're not mutually exclusive)... all we've seen is the new mechanic being announced thus far. For those disagreeing with the new mechanic based on the fact that new additional content has yet to surface... it's not the point of discussion here.
ALL of us want "moar to find". Ok, maybe most then.
While I do agree BOTH need to be addressed in Q4 (IMO they're not mutually exclusive)... all we've seen is the new mechanic being announced thus far. For those disagreeing with the new mechanic based on the fact that new additional content has yet to surface... it's not the point of discussion here.
ALL of us want "moar to find". Ok, maybe most then.