Powerplay Player groups are the worst thing to come to Powerplay

[Darkfyre99]

Sorry, but I'm having a hard time seeing the downside here. The tale of a plucky band of heroes driving the Evil Empire out of their once peaceful land is a classic because it happens to be realistic. A smaller, organized group focusing on one thing does have an advantage over a larger group with a wide variety of interests, and often times the smaller group succeeds not because THEY hurt the larger group, but because dealing with the smaller group is too expensive or leaves them vulnerable in other, more critical, areas. Yes, it is annoying for the Evil Empire, to be thwarted like that, but they wouldn't be an Evil Empire if they stayed home and knitted.

I can also see things from the player faction's point of view. Here you are, a small group of players who have banded together to free your home from the local superpower, you've finally succeeded, and then along comes another superpower who claims that your system is theirs, your chosen faction is costing them time, money, and effort, so you've got to go. From such things, depth of gameplay is made.

And while I do get your complaint about player groups being "invisible," that is the result of a decision Frontier Developments made before the Kickstarter, and I have no desire to discuss that decision once again.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Sorry, but I'm having a hard time seeing the downside here. The tale of a plucky band of heroes driving the Evil Empire out of their once peaceful land is a classic because it happens to be realistic. A smaller, organized group focusing on one thing does have an advantage over a larger group with a wide variety of interests, and often times the smaller group succeeds not because THEY hurt the larger group, but because dealing with the smaller group is too expensive or leaves them vulnerable in other, more critical, areas. Yes, it is annoying for the Evil Empire, to be thwarted like that, but they wouldn't be an Evil Empire if they stayed home and knitted.

I can also see things from the player faction's point of view. Here you are, a small group of players who have banded together to free your home from the local superpower, you've finally succeeded, and then along comes another superpower who claims that your system is theirs, your chosen faction is costing them time, money, and effort, so you've got to go. From such things, depth of gameplay is made.

And while I do get your complaint about player groups being "invisible," that is the result of a decision Frontier Developments made before the Kickstarter, and I have no desire to discuss that decision once again.

I'm starting to calm down now, so don't get me started again

My issue is there is no tool to strike back with. Rebels can blow up the Death Star, but the Empire has no Alderaan to burn.

 

[Vasious]

How & Why are the Play Minor Factions going to be opposing Powers though?

I might be missing the obvious but Player Minor factions are just Minor factions, their type effects the ease of control or fortification but beyond that, they don't conflict with Powers and can exist within a power

 

[Lily from anim.o.v.e]

I'm starting to calm down now, so don't get me started again

My issue is there is no tool to strike back with. Rebels can blow up the Death Star, but the Empire has no Alderaan to burn.

Thats the issue, when someone of big power drives off a small faction a system should truly be fortified with a lot patrols giving a faction a hard time taking it away again. On the other side, small factions in that case should be able to leave and seek a new home starting to establish a habit for them somewhere else.

Then you have never gazed at the quite fantastic numbers ALD and Hudson produce because they have nearly all the players. ALD for example commands.50% of the PP base. She can steamroller all day long as that power has everything, no funny business needed. Expansions can roll on for 1000+% on a normal cycle.

Thats what happens if you had the manpower to do what you want and need. Sry thats how it works. If that unbalances things too much, FD needs to seek some special treatments for the others to lure people there.

 

[Cody]

'Player groups are the worst thing... ' Yep! <howls>

 

[znôrt]

Neither of you understand the dynamics of the situation.

In Power play, right now all the Powers are fighting to get the best systems as we all have reached the size where overheads mean only the best will do. Fighting between powers is fine, as using the tools you can see who is going where, and you can use the blunt tools to at least mitigate the problem.

Player groups who claim systems (registed player groups) can dictate what they like as they are almost impossible to displace. They can focus on a.single system, while the power has to do prep, expansion, fortification, patrol, making money, system flipping, having fun spanning anywhere between twenty to sixty systems. For small powers this just saps enthusiasm, as quite often you fight hard to get a system from a mammoth power, only to be told by an unknown group that it's off limits, wasting two weeks of work endangering your power.

i understand now.

i think having fierce resistance on some systems adds to the game.

curious that you actually meant the opposite of what most of us understood first. you are not annoyed by a larger group bullying smaller ones, but by small groups standing up to your superpower. well, you're a superpower ... deal with it!

and if you happen to stumble on these guys, take it easy!

 

[Rubbernuke]

i understand now.

i think having fierce resistance on some systems adds to the game.

curious that you actually meant the opposite of what most of us understood first. you are not annoyed by a larger group bullying smaller ones, but by small groups standing up to your superpower. well, you're a superpower ... deal with it!

and if you happen to stumble on these guys, take it easy!

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/...9QcB5KIbeI0K3g08S31XkunEudH8fu1yZsb1r8QMs-Mhp

I suppose what I hate is that powerplay sandwitches powers with low player bases into a painful grind. Large ALD style powers do what they like, and player groups with systems have all the power as they can just oppose all day long not having to worry as they are untouchable. The smaller powers have to deal with the worst aspects of powerplay without any of the good bits. Hopefully in 1.4 we can actually 'see' where these groups are so powers do not expand onto them, and have the proper tools to get rid of them, if we wanted. I prefer diplomacy, but the option to burn populations into submission would be nice, just to make examples for others.

 

[Zeeman]

Neither of you understand the dynamics of the situation.

In Power play, right now all the Powers are fighting to get the best systems as we all have reached the size where overheads mean only the best will do. Fighting between powers is fine, as using the tools you can see who is going where, and you can use the blunt tools to at least mitigate the problem.

Player groups who claim systems (registed player groups) can dictate what they like as they are almost impossible to displace. They can focus on a.single system, while the power has to do prep, expansion, fortification, patrol, making money, system flipping, having fun spanning anywhere between twenty to sixty systems. For small powers this just saps enthusiasm, as quite often you fight hard to get a system from a mammoth power, only to be told by an unknown group that it's off limits, wasting two weeks of work endangering your power.

Actually.. Your argument re "player groups", which I think to mean the player named factions, have *ALWAYS* been there. All that is really happening is we can now name the faction we are fighting for.

Regardless of that, I don't see the issue. Any person or group has every right to do pretty much as they wish in any system.

In the same way, you have every right to do whatever you wish. You don't *have* to listen to said 17 people. You could, perhaps, co-ordinate with some people from your power to bring them down. Like in real life, people don't always like to have a new power move in and start dictating rules - this is kind of how wars often happen. So, it sounds to me like you gotta start a war...

I suppose what I hate is that powerplay sandwitches powers with low player bases into a painful grind. Large ALD style powers do what they like, and player groups with systems have all the power as they can just oppose all day long not having to worry as they are untouchable. The smaller powers have to deal with the worst aspects of powerplay without any of the good bits. Hopefully in 1.4 we can actually 'see' where these groups are so powers do not expand onto them, and have the proper tools to get rid of them, if we wanted. I prefer diplomacy, but the option to burn populations into submission would be nice, just to make examples for others.

Player factions are hardly untouchable. there have been player run factions decimated in minutes. Literally. I think it was 7, to be exact...

There are ways, but you'll have to figure that out yourself.
Z...

 

[Rubbernuke]

Actually.. Your argument re "player groups", which I think to mean the player named factions, have *ALWAYS* been there. All that is really happening is we can now name the faction we are fighting for.

Regardless of that, I don't see the issue. Any person or group has every right to do pretty much as they wish in any system.

In the same way, you have every right to do whatever you wish. You don't *have* to listen to said 17 people. You could, perhaps, co-ordinate with some people from your power to bring them down. Like in real life, people don't always like to have a new power move in and start dictating rules - this is kind of how wars often happen. So, it sounds to me like you gotta start a war...

Z...

Perhaps I am being to nice. Perhaps I need to defect to Archon and sell them all into slavery.

I just wish player named factions would come to us first and say, "please don't expand there" rather than letting us know far too late by shooting everything and then telling us.

 

[Zeeman]

Perhaps I am being to nice. Perhaps I need to defect to Archon and sell them all into slavery.

I just wish player named factions would come to us first and say, "please don't expand there" rather than letting us know far too late by shooting everything and then telling us.

I kind of see your point, but, this is actually, the way I see it, a big part of the game it unifies people to try and achieve a common goal. Sounds to me like you need to find yourself a team.

How & Why are the Play Minor Factions going to be opposing Powers though?

I might be missing the obvious but Player Minor factions are just Minor factions, their type effects the ease of control or fortification but beyond that, they don't conflict with Powers and can exist within a power

Yes, however, a power also brings with it certain pros and cons, and said cons *may* conflict with the way the minor faction likes to do things. ie - Imperial slaves may be made illegal, or smuggling, or bounty hunting pays better/worse etc...

Z...

 

[_Flin_]

I'm starting to calm down now, so don't get me started again

My issue is there is no tool to strike back with. Rebels can blow up the Death Star, but the Empire has no Alderaan to burn.

Why not? You can just burn down their faction into the ground (EDIT: via the Background Simulation), then expand from another system, and it's gone.

Just for your info... there will be 117 officially communicated player factions coming with 1.4.
So you will step on one whereever you go.

 

[Star-Hunter]

OP, you seem to have forgot two main parts of warfare:
- Reconnaissance
- Diplomacy

Powers wont be able to simply declare ownership of systems anymore. Local factions and governments (player groups) will have their own opinion about it.

PP strategies will have to change.

 

[JessieColt]

I suppose what I hate is that powerplay sandwitches powers with low player bases into a painful grind. Large ALD style powers do what they like, and player groups with systems have all the power as they can just oppose all day long not having to worry as they are untouchable. The smaller powers have to deal with the worst aspects of powerplay without any of the good bits. Hopefully in 1.4 we can actually 'see' where these groups are so powers do not expand onto them, and have the proper tools to get rid of them, if we wanted. I prefer diplomacy, but the option to burn populations into submission would be nice, just to make examples for others.

One of the downsides of a larger power like ALD, is that while she has the players, she doesn't always have the dedication.

One cycle dropped her from #1 to #4 in the standings because of dedicated undermining by other powers. She might have 50% of the player base pledged to her, but even with those numbers she is never able to fortify all of her systems each cycle.

2 Cycles later and she has only moved up to #2 and is once again in turmoil, meaning no system Preparation this cycle, and no Expansions next cycle.

The way to topple the large player base powers is to coordinate undermining of specific systems so that the power ends up with a negative CC balance at cycle change, which sends them into Turmoil and prevents them from Preparing systems, which blocks the future Expansions.

Heck, smaller powers can still hold their own. Look at Delaine! He apparently has the smallest number of pledged players, yet even though his systems are repeatedly undermined every cycle, he almost never drops into Turmoil.

A power should only expand as much as they can honestly control each cycle. If you are in a small power but you have a solid hold on your systems, then even though you may not be in the top 3 in standings, you power is better situated than all of the others. Since no amount of attacking is truly detrimental to your power.

Whereas those top 5 standings are constantly being batted about and almost every cycle, there will be at least 1 or 2 changes in the top standings.

 

[Roybe]

But there has to be better tools for powers to suppress these groups. The whole of power play is lopsided in that it's too easy to oppose what on paper should be overwhelming force. It's like a town attacking a whole country and getting away with it.

So, to support PowerPlay you feel that system factions should be able to be removed from the game by a larger group?

 

[Roybe]

I suppose what I hate is that powerplay sandwitches powers with low player bases into a painful grind. Large ALD style powers do what they like, and player groups with systems have all the power as they can just oppose all day long not having to worry as they are untouchable. The smaller powers have to deal with the worst aspects of powerplay without any of the good bits. Hopefully in 1.4 we can actually 'see' where these groups are so powers do not expand onto them, and have the proper tools to get rid of them, if we wanted. I prefer diplomacy, but the option to burn populations into submission would be nice, just to make examples for others.

So, because you are a small Power your idea is to remove those that could possibly be recruited into your service, and create long term enemies....so you can become a larger Power?

 

[Rudolphus]

I like it more when a group of people that life together defend their home system and to compete with, then playing PP on the best game-mechanic way

 

[Rudolphus]

Yes this is happening but I would not call them dedicated players more the kind that does not like to loose it are players to have pity with that they feel to resort to do this.
It let me personal feel lesser united with them to fight the same enemy

I lerned tha many dedictaed gamers are willing to do, "strange things". I would not wonder if some extreme players have like 3 accounts of ships sitting with like 200 cargo in the stations just to macro take those fortification letters every 30minutes and then deliver them all once a day or twice.

I have seen too many weird things done by games to believe in this not happening.

 

[lysan]

It gives the game a good dynamic, I believe that it's a good sign. What we need is more support from the NPCs if a single player need help to accomplish a task. NPC wings, that is what we need.
if 50 players want to control a system like Lave, then they should face a wall of NPCs trying to get them out. I don't blame the players, because they are only playing with the tools given by FD, Its FD who need to make the game more versatile.

 

[GNThrone]

Player groups under our power are using the mechanic to our advantage with the current lack of anything we're strong against in our territories. So I say it goes both ways. And if a player group wants to remain neutral, then they're outside of powerplay and they have every right to keep to their own.

 

[DNA-Decay]

It's been this way since day one.

The Lugh War, for example...

I came in after the Steam sale.

Is there a thread somewhere that talks about the Lugh War?

I hear it mentioned, but I'd love to know the details.
Even a date and who are the beligerents so I can go look through back reddits.