Player owned factions...discuss

[Urbanski101]

Is it just me or do other players have a slight issue with player owned factions?

I'm aware it's probably completely unreasonable of me to feel this way, especially considering we're talking about a game but it just niggles at me when I'm playing.

Let's be clear, my issue is not with the player factions themselves or those that are part of them. My issue is with how unmanaged the player faction system is & how prevalent they appear to be....and yes 'mah immurshun'.

Another issue how they were introduced into the game. Just write a nice email to FD and take control of a major high pop trade hub. What other game does that? No meritocracy or game related, goal driven reason, just first come, first serve? I immediately thought that was a very strange way of handling the demand for player agency in ED...I still do.

I set up home early in the game at a major hub until a player faction took control. Ok, fine, I'll move on, space is big. Now, years later this same faction has taken control of the system I moved to and has taken over a number of neighbouring systems as well. The rest of the neighbouring systems are also largely owned by player factions.

As a single player I enjoyed the thought that through my efforts via the BGS I could influence the status quo of a system. However I feel that I'm powerless to influence a player owned system as they have manpower to counter anything I do. I'm aware that player factions can't control much in the systems they own which is why this isn't a hugely important issue, just slightly perplexing.

I'd be interested to know how many players as a % of the player base are active in a player owned faction. And what plans, if any, FD have for player factions or the introduction of new factions. Is the plan to let them continue to grow until the majority of the bubble is controlled by player owned factions? What about the 'inactive' factions, are they being left in game or are they being removed after x months / years of inactivity?

I know it takes a tonne of BGS work to expand & maintain those factions so kudos to those that put in the effort, FD sanctioned this and I completely understand those that wanted to get involved.

Just wondered what others thought, as a solo player, or someone who is part of a player owned faction?

 

[Iron Golem]

Tier 0.25. Great foundation and potential waiting to be fleshed out. Just like most of the rest of the game.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

It's not fun.

 

[SupremeMorph]

My faction's been doing pretty well for itself. I put a lot of time and effort into them at the start, but now they're thriving on their own in my little corner of space, so I'm happy. But I also know my guys have taken systems that are the home systems of other player-made factions, which was never my intention, but the bgs does what it does. So it's likely that my story is the exception rather than the rule

 

[Chrystoph]

Personally, I think that pledging to Factions, or Organizations, would lend a certain amount to game play in terms of giving your actions definitive value. I also think that it shouldn't be required, but that is just maintaining balance.

 

[Frankymole]

I've spent several years in a big PMF, some months so far this year in a small starter PMF, and a few years solo. Aside from making the factions a bit less random in their actions and responses, and enhancing communications with other players as well as helping them with BGS using Fleet Carriers as abses (giving a reason to actually play in this sandbox game), I don't think it makes much difference. "Play it your way". A single dedicated CMDR can still wreck a minor faction's activities in (or expansion to) a system. The main irritant is a certain "machismo" oriented group who shall remain nameless who only get their kicks by steamrollering other players, moving into their systems, wrecking everything then leaving again only to boast about their "macho-ness". I guess they're compensating for certain... inadequacies.

 

[Rainbro]

Player factions function identically to NPC factions - calling them "player" factions at all is somewhat misleading, you basically just customize the name and government type and they get inserted in. They also don't get inserted in control of anything. They have to take control same as any pre-existing faction.

Unfortunately in this case, it seems you're just outnumbered. You're both supporting your preferred faction, but they have more people to work with, so you'd either need to work a lot harder or a lot more efficiently than them. And that's just how it is, it'd be wack if 1 person could outperform 50.

But you still have options. Have you tried talking to them? They probably have no idea you exist if you were just chilling in the system, letting it stay as it was. You might be able to negotiate something that is acceptable, plenty of player groups would be willing to forgo control of System No. 35 if they knew there was someone who cared about it more than they did. Or maybe they're not just there out of random opportunity and want to see their number go up.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

There are no player owned factions. There are player made factions, but they don't own them.

Factions should stay as they are. What should happen is that they should greatly expand on powerplay. Add lots more powers, integrate it more into the BGS, make it more like the BGS, a mainly PvE experience, you can still pledge to a power though. Have aligned factions to the powers and if that faction is in charge at that system, then it greatly increases the standing of that power, and have the power that controls a system make sweeping changes, for example Archon Delaine changes all systems he has control over to an anarchy, Hudson would make them all High Security but with a much greater chance of a black market.

So you pledge to a power, but you can only support factions.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

....

Just wondered what others thought, as a solo player, or someone who is part of a player owned faction?

Since you never gave a crap about it, you need not concern yourself today with it. It has no influence over your gameplay that you would in any form recognize.

 

[Urbanski101]

Player factions function identically to NPC factions - calling them "player" factions at all is somewhat misleading, you basically just customize the name and government type and they get inserted in. They also don't get inserted in control of anything. They have to take control same as any pre-existing faction.

Unfortunately in this case, it seems you're just outnumbered. You're both supporting your preferred faction, but they have more people to work with, so you'd either need to work a lot harder or a lot more efficiently than them. And that's just how it is, it'd be wack if 1 person could outperform 50.

But you still have options. Have you tried talking to them? They probably have no idea you exist if you were just chilling in the system, letting it stay as it was. You might be able to negotiate something that is acceptable, plenty of player groups would be willing to forgo control of System No. 35 if they knew there was someone who cared about it more than they did. Or maybe they're not just there out of random opportunity and want to see their number go up.

I'm not trying to compete with them, that would be pointless.

I did have a look into the player faction and they seem like a nice bunch, perhaps I should get in touch. The other option is to buy a carrier and de-camp, use the carrier as a mobile base and forego having a home system.

 

[Urbanski101]

There are no player owned factions. There are player made factions, but they don't own them.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Thanks for the clarification.

You are very welcome.

 

[Craith]

Small correction, you don't get control of a major population control hub (it was like this at the very beginning years ago for a few weeks, but quickly changed).

I am speaking here as a member of a squadron with a corresponding PMF, so of course I am in the pro-PMF party.

Even if no PMF were allowed, people would just adopt an existing faction - PMFs have no special rules attached to them (apart from blocking other PMFs from being inserted into their system). Player groups also often have diplomatic relationships with their neighbours - many won't enter systems of other player factions, or won't go for control in them. They have alliances and wars about their virtual empires.

If your faction got crushed by a PMF, they did it because they worked the BGS harder than you. Superiour numbers definitely help with that, but also understanding of the (non-documented, and changing) BGS rules, that all activities have soft caps, so doing diverse activities is better.

You can try to talk to them. They probably didn't know that you were supporting the local faction. They might be open for a deal, like you can have the control of the system back after they expanded from it (if they need it as a stepping stone), or if you help them get another system, they will let you take this one back ...

Don't forget that the BGS is volatile though - not every expansion from a PMF is planned, some lack the planning (or just don't want to) and just wherever they can, others may end up in a system by mistake, because their intended target closed before they could get in. They might not even want to expand, but random players push up their faction because some youtuber made a video how to get a lot of money fast, or a CG is nearby and they happen to be the best source of one material (and the return trades push them up) ...

I do see some problems with PMFs, mostly that the 10 supporter rule is often ignored, so single pilots create PMFs, that often get abandoned soon after when they find out supporting a PMF takes a lot of effort. And that dead PMF never disappear, so the galaxy is dotted with many dead PMFs (only 1524 out of 2643 PMFs counted on eddb own at least 1 station - not all are probably unsupported, but some unsupported ones may own some assets due to pure chance and random traffic). Lastly, some PMF names and backgrounds are ... well ... not really fitting into the universe, IMO.

 

[O'Roarke]

They could use a renaming pass.

The "German Dealer and Fighter Union", to pick one as an example, could be renamed to something less 21st century and something more 32nd century.

 

[Urbanski101]

Small correction, you don't get control of a major population control hub (it was like this at the very beginning years ago for a few weeks, but quickly changed).

I am speaking here as a member of a squadron with a corresponding PMF, so of course I am in the pro-PMF party.

Even if no PMF were allowed, people would just adopt an existing faction - PMFs have no special rules attached to them (apart from blocking other PMFs from being inserted into their system). Player groups also often have diplomatic relationships with their neighbours - many won't enter systems of other player factions, or won't go for control in them. They have alliances and wars about their virtual empires.

If your faction got crushed by a PMF, they did it because they worked the BGS harder than you. Superiour numbers definitely help with that, but also understanding of the (non-documented, and changing) BGS rules, that all activities have soft caps, so doing diverse activities is better.

You can try to talk to them. They probably didn't know that you were supporting the local faction. They might be open for a deal, like you can have the control of the system back after they expanded from it (if they need it as a stepping stone), or if you help them get another system, they will let you take this one back ...

Don't forget that the BGS is volatile though - not every expansion from a PMF is planned, some lack the planning (or just don't want to) and just wherever they can, others may end up in a system by mistake, because their intended target closed before they could get in. They might not even want to expand, but random players push up their faction because some youtuber made a video how to get a lot of money fast, or a CG is nearby and they happen to be the best source of one material (and the return trades push them up) ...

I do see some problems with PMFs, mostly that the 10 supporter rule is often ignored, so single pilots create PMFs, that often get abandoned soon after when they find out supporting a PMF takes a lot of effort. And that dead PMF never disappear, so the galaxy is dotted with many dead PMFs (only 1524 out of 2643 PMFs counted on eddb own at least 1 station - not all are probably unsupported, but some unsupported ones may own some assets due to pure chance and random traffic). Lastly, some PMF names and backgrounds are ... well ... not really fitting into the universe, IMO.

Good post...thanks.

Do you know if FD plan to remove inactive factions from the game?

And yes...some of the names

 

[metatheurgist]

It's not just you. Crap idea.

 

[Pastoral]

Is it just me or do other players have a slight issue with player owned factions?

I'm aware it's probably completely unreasonable of me to feel this way, especially considering we're talking about a game but it just niggles at me when I'm playing.

Let's be clear, my issue is not with the player factions themselves or those that are part of them. My issue is with how unmanaged the player faction system is & how prevalent they appear to be....and yes 'mah immurshun'.

Another issue how they were introduced into the game. Just write a nice email to FD and take control of a major high pop trade hub. What other game does that? No meritocracy or game related, goal driven reason, just first come, first serve? I immediately thought that was a very strange way of handling the demand for player agency in ED...I still do.

I set up home early in the game at a major hub until a player faction took control. Ok, fine, I'll move on, space is big. Now, years later this same faction has taken control of the system I moved to and has taken over a number of neighbouring systems as well. The rest of the neighbouring systems are also largely owned by player factions.

As a single player I enjoyed the thought that through my efforts via the BGS I could influence the status quo of a system. However I feel that I'm powerless to influence a player owned system as they have manpower to counter anything I do. I'm aware that player factions can't control much in the systems they own which is why this isn't a hugely important issue, just slightly perplexing.

I'd be interested to know how many players as a % of the player base are active in a player owned faction. And what plans, if any, FD have for player factions or the introduction of new factions. Is the plan to let them continue to grow until the majority of the bubble is controlled by player owned factions? What about the 'inactive' factions, are they being left in game or are they being removed after x months / years of inactivity?

I know it takes a tonne of BGS work to expand & maintain those factions so kudos to those that put in the effort, FD sanctioned this and I completely understand those that wanted to get involved.

Just wondered what others thought, as a solo player, or someone who is part of a player owned faction?

As a faction planner for one of those player factions I do understand where you are coming from but you yourself even state you liked to influence the system early in your post. Is this not exactly what player factions do? Controlling a faction is hard work and takes time and considerable effort which you acknowledge but thos who are deeply immersed in the game enjoy doing this as it involves many aspects of gameplay. I hope to meet you in the black.
o7 Cmdr Pastoral TEAC

 

[Danieros]

Powers and minor factions are only indirectly influenced by players. And as someone fully involved with both PP & BGS I believe that's fine, you'll get the wins and losses out of it even though it's not your personal character getting the benefits - you're doing your stuff as part of a greater thing. You know what you're doing in the universe, and you'll see the effect. Directly becoming a minor faction them would be effectively a whole other game of simulation, a much bigger change than space legs.

 

[Riverside]

I support NPC factions and generally oppose large expansionist factions and ime (from people I have met in the game) most players seem to think faction support and PMFs go hand in hand, often not realising one can support or oppose any faction with directed effort.

Personally I'm not a fan of large, organised groups of players, I think faction support should be loose collections of allied 'gangs' but obviously people can play how they like & I can certainly see the appeal of both directing a large workforce of helpers and being part of a team where if you don't do the work that day someone else probably will.

I think joining a large player group has become the norm for new players, and just as with all those helpful youtube how-to videos that tell players to go to places like Deciat or Dav's Hope most new players see a complex game, ask themselves 'now what?' and are happy to follow the instruction of someone that appears to (or does) have a plan.

A small group or a single dedicated player certainly can be at least a thorn in the side of large player groups but diplomacy is usually the best way to proceed (imo).

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Is the plan to let them continue to grow until the majority of the bubble is controlled by player owned factions?

This is already the case - at last count, PMFs are in control of just over 55% of inhabited systems (and present in 76%)

Control or not, space for new PMF addition will run out anyway in about two years as the existing factions expand and new ones take the few bits of remaining space.

But if it wasn't PMFs, it would be what predated PMFs and still exists alongside them, which was organised player groups picking factions and supporting them to massive growth anyway. All the PMF is really changing is the name.

Do you know if FD plan to remove inactive factions from the game?

There is no practical way to define an inactive faction.

And in terms of visible PMFs taking over tens of systems, the inactive ones aren't really causing any problems anyway - even if you took a ridiculously excessive definition of inactive, the space "freed up" by removing them would be overtaken by other active player-backed factions in just a few months.