please don't confuse PvPers with griefers

[Tradesman]

Well one good thing came of this thread other than reaffirming my general disdain for griefers, I was not aware of the Mobius group, but it looks like exactly what I was looking for while we wait for the pvp toggle to inevitably be implemented. I will be joining that group immediately, and hopefully the population will continue to grow while the Open population continues to shrink until FD realizes their mistake.

Dabba, it wont be implemented, lol.

 

[Dabba]

Dabba, it wont be implemented, lol.

Inevitable.

 

[Rockett]

My PvP game of choice is War Thunder where you get rewards regardless of whether you win or lose.

WTH! I am NEVER gonna play that game.

I swear I've never heard of anything so lame

 

[Beld]

I too hope they will quickly realise how silly it is to allow a persistent universe mmo to be broken into shards.

 

[Crumplecorn]

while the Open population continues to shrink until FD realizes their mistake.

Ha ha, "Open is dying". I wonder how long it will be dying for. EVE has managed 11 years so far.

WTH! I am NEVER gonna play that game.

I swear I've never heard of anything so lame

It's just a grinding game like WoT. It's not about winning, it's about the progress quest.

 

[Tradesman]

I always hear: if you don't want PvP go play solo. I'm not sure if the PvP-community is doing itself a favor with this argumentation.
I don't want to play solo, I want to meet other spacefarers and there should be more options of interaction than simply blasting each other into smithereens. I play open in hopes that I meet other people along the way, maybe have a little chat or even cooperate on something. But yeah, unfortunately Elite is quite limited in it's current state concerning chat/groups/meeting other people.

And this is where all the comparisons with EVE are missing the point. In EVE I have a lot of possibilities to interact with other players. You're not forced to meet other people just by unleashing your firepower on them. Here Elite needs urgent improvement!

I wonder? I was pulled out of SC to my annoyance couldn't get a visual on the target swung my ship around and powered up my guns. At that point I swear I saw some blue writings but before I could decide to open up, he went into SC.
Wonder if he wanted a chat? lo!

 

[Araviel]

maybe we should make a private pvp group.
i am sick of all the hate i have been getting from the anti pvp group and i do not want to mix whit them anymore.

 

[Jack Dalton]

this is where the game fails to cater for you. many MMO's are coop in nature, currently elite only supports player organised coop games. it does not organise it's own coop game. we have solo, group or open. all the rules support open being a free for all pvp arena

the penalties for pvp are trivial, you can pay off a fine when you're done breaking the law.

ship loss is comparatively trivial with the only significant loss being what ever cargo you had. in eve you get back about 50% of your ships base cost, if you paid up front for insurance, which is a monthly thing and if you didn't insure there is no option at time of destruction. that payout is often a fraction of the cost of better ships who's value are not from the common raw materials but the rare stuff they need to be created with. there is also no insurance for modules. eve has much harsher losses and much stricter punishments for breaking the law.

elite could have implemented a similar system. but they did not. they have implemented a system that is a lot like the dangerous areas of eve, the ones which still have laws but those laws are not really enforced.

this is the problem, the game really does cater for the pvpers with very little penalties. yet those who want coop have to share a world with those who want pvp as the options are too limiting.

as for the murder sim, roleplay does not come into it. i know roleplay, i have a halfling named thunderfoot who is my favourite character. i do not however roleplay when i play an FPS pvp game. nor do i roleplay when i play GTA. i play those games for the fun of them not to scratch my desire to roleplay. i did not roleplay when i was active in the pvp community of eve and while i will happily respond in character to any other RPer i do not expect i'll be doing much RPing in elite regardless of what i'm doing (currently bounty hunting NPC's)

trying to read motivation into pvp in terms of a character's motivations is like trying to ask a sportsman about their acting career. RPers RP, actors act. a sportsman is out there to play the game (and if it's pro probably to earn a lot of cash), they are not out there to develop their acting skills (unless its WWF).

now yes you might ask what's sporting about shooting at easy targets, nothing really, it's just when that's the only target you find to shoot at then you're going to be inclined to shoot at it. i've updated my OP with more insight on this

First of all: I appreciate the fact you're discussing this with such maturity.

The way I see it... it really looks like you're trying to feel better about griefing. You're basically saying that you like to shoot "less able" players, not because it might be a part of the game's universe, but because you just like to demonstrate yourself that you can easily blow them away. You take joy at ruining another's person cargo run, mining endeavor, or exploring trip. You end the fight none the wiser or more capable than before. Not even richer... and in fact, you incur in fines. This tells me you use the game's established mechanics and universe for your own perversion (yes, is a strong word, but bear with me, English is not my native language and I sometimes find myself lost for words) while declining to invest yourself into the story or the immersive aspects of the game.

This, for me, is within the boundaries of what we define as griefing. Personally, I take it as a plausible perversion of the game's universe, and as long as it doesn't become a real problem... the occasional griefer can be regarded as a murderer, a psychopath or something of the like, should one decide to give it an appropriate context. That being said, and especially when you decide to alienate yourself from the game, I don't think you are correct in pretending you are not a griefer.

 

[Unpleasant]

If all involved are willing to fight, PvP can be fun.

When it's just an overpowered gonk blowing newbies up for a giggle it's griefing.

In online games just in real life, only cowards and bullies pick on the weak.

 

[Whelp]

And unlike EVE, losses are laughable in this game. A couple hundred K at most.

You don't even need to rebuy your ship and fit. (EDIT: I mean the game does it for you, basically.)

 

[Tradesman]

Take control of your own starship in a cut-throat galaxy.

Start with a small starship and a few credits, and do whatever it takes to get the skill, knowledge, wealth and power to stand among the ranks of the Elite.

Yeah I know I have seen it somewhere.

 

[Crumplecorn]

If all involved are willing to fight, PvP can be fun.

You don't get to tell me what is fun and what isn't. I may happen to like shooting anything that moves.

 

[Rockett]

maybe we should make a private pvp group.
i am sick of all the hate i have been getting from the anti pvp group and i do not want to mix whit them anymore.

Please don't.

I run expensive cargos in crappy haulers at times in open play. I know the risk I am taking - and on the vanishingly rare occasions where I have been interdicted by a player - I've managed to get away with it... so far.

But bejeezus - that's the fun of it! Frankly - if you can catch me - all power to ya mate

 

[Tradesman]

Please don't.

I run expensive cargos in crappy haulers at times in open play. I know the risk I am taking - and on the vanishingly rare occasions where I have been interdicted by a player - I've managed to get away with it... so far.

But bejeezus - that's the fun of it! Frankly - if you can catch me - all power to ya mate

Rockett, That's the spirit!

 

[Dabba]

You don't get to tell me what is fun and what isn't. I may happen to like shooting anything that moves.

Good point. I like disappearing into the ether and frustrating the bejeezus out of the griefer that thought he had an easy payday in his sights. Fun for everyone!

 

[Davevti]

If you're in a Sidney and you're wanted, then I will leave you alone.
If you're in something more substantial and wanted....then it's game on.

Would that be considered as griefing? I think it doesn't, that's how I roll anyway, I love PvP, but I tend to leave 'clean' players alone......unless I fancy some piracy

 

[Unpleasant]

You don't get to tell me what is fun and what isn't. I may happen to like shooting anything that moves.

Mine was a rhetorical statement. Yet you're telling us that being blown up by you should be fun? kind of ironic huh.

 

[Beld]

I wonder how many of these griefers are new players themselves, i've been here a week, I watched let plays, read forums and learnt the game, I read the newcomers forums a lot and theres plenty of players who have been playing just as long and haven't gotten out of their first ship, because i've made an effort to learn and do my best I'm not allowed to shoot the dull serfs for my own amusement?

And if so does that mean anyone that started before the 16th isn't allowed to shoot me either?

 

[Jack Dalton]

If you're in a Sidney and you're wanted, then I will leave you alone.
If you're in something more substantial and wanted....then it's game on.

Would that be considered as griefing? I think it doesn't, that's how I roll anyway, I love PvP, but I tend to leave 'clean' players alone......unless I fancy some piracy

I don't think so, nope. That would be Bounty Hunting and I would encourage that. I don't thing there is "hate" towards PvP... it's just against mindlessly destroying newer players just because.

 

[Samu]

This is Elite: Dangerous, do I need to say more?
Don't want PVP but want to be social? Head to the group section of the forum and find one, they even usually come with Team Speak servers.

Why are PVP fights thrilling? Because its a match of your skill and someone else's, not an NPC. Its a real person you're going against, who on the whole is a lot harder to kill.

That said, if you're in a PVP ship shooting an industrial with no intention of making any monetary gain, then you're griefing and you should expect the hate. You have the right to play like a pirate, but people will dislike you just as they'd actually dislike pirates.