Please fix the dashbaords ...

Craith

Volunteer Moderator
Craith
IMO a good solution would be a slider for how intense the G-forces get to move your head. 0% (as currently in VR) to 100% (as currently on screen). Personally I'd like to have a small amount of forced movement in VR, but only a very low amount (forced movement is very nauseating in VR - but having some on extreme maneuvers would improve my immersion a lot). It would also allow OP to set it to a lower %age until he won't lose out on the cockpit view.
 

limpetdwarf

L
I haven't calculated the forces because I don't have the required numbers, and I suck at math. This isn't about the flight model, it's about an extremely annoying graphics effect which is also entirely unrealistic.

What the developers have done is that they created a graphical effect. If they did actually all the calculations, the effect would be different (unless they are assuming the are dashboards mounted on springs).

It doesn't matter if forces come from thrusters, wings or air resistance. I have been sitting in airplanes that did pull up and I wasn't pulled forward in relation to the plane but backwards against the seat because the plane was accelerating and not slowing down while pulling up.

Please show us what you think what the forces are and what effects they would have. Just assuming that someone else did some calculations and trying to argue with that isn't going to do anything.
 

limpetdwarf

L
varonica said:
The thing is, I have no issue in having it disabled via a control setting, my main issue is it's being called a bug and it's not a bug, it's physics Jim, and you canna break the laws of physics!
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I've tried to explain the physics. Please show where and how I'm wrong about these physics.
 

varonica

varonica
limpetdwarf said:
I've tried to explain the physics. Please show where and how I'm wrong about these physics.
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Read my reply, you need to calculate the vectors of force invlolved to determine which way the body will move, you are basing your calculations on the way aircraft work, and we aren't flying aircraft!
 

varonica

varonica
limpetdwarf said:
It doesn't matter if forces come from thrusters, wings or air resistance. I have been sitting in airplanes that did pull up and I wasn't pulled forward in relation to the plane but backwards against the seat because the plane was accelerating and not slowing down while pulling up.
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Then you need to define what you mean by pulling up, because pulling up means to raise the nose sharply, and unless you supply more power from the engines you won't accelerate when pulling up, you will slow down, pulling the nose up will eventually put the plane into a stall and you will crash due to no airspeed over the wings. If you are applying more power then you are changing the vectors of thrust dynamically, which make the calclulations just a little bit harder. Of course if you have just taken off from the ground and are accelerating to flight speed with the nose raised to gain height that's a completely different situation because we aren't talking about a continuous curve provided by the thrusters in our ships but accelerating along one side of an angle to the ground, which will indeed push you back into your seat, you really need to stop thinking aircraft!
 

Achtung-Goomba

Achtung-Goomba
Gotta admit it’s hard to think 3D space sometimes, perhaps because of the FA-in fly-by-wire flight model. I enjoy both the default ‘easy’ flight model, and dabbling (badly) in FA-off when I want to remind myself I’m actually flying a virtual spaceship. But I still have a bias towards pulling ‘up’ to roll over 🤷‍♂️

I think, the Expanse telly adaptation with their vertical ship design demonstrates a little of the effect of g-forces in space flight in a way that I understand it, though I’m nowhere near an expert on it. But they don’t have ‘cockpits’ and all flying is done seemingly by camera view and instruments as a consequence. But I think as a spaceflight game Elite manages the best of both worlds in my humble opinion, though No Man’s Sky with FA-off would be a sight to see!

Can we agree that some people like the graphical effect of the cockpit ‘sway’ and some don’t, so perhaps a toggle option or slider in the graphical settings would be the best way to manage it for different folks.

It’s still not a bug though.
 

yelboc

yelboc
Its you and your seat that move - not the dash. The hand-wavium lore is that you are seated in a gel seat that cushions you from the effect of G forces as the ship accelerates.

Granted it can't be completely realistic - Our ships acceleration rates make a jet fighter look puny. You would pass out every time you pressed boost, but they are trying to give some impression of what it would be like to actually try to turn a ship in space at the absurd rates we use during combat. My 920m/sec IEagle will boost from 400 - 900 in about 2 secs, so 250m/sec/sec or 25G, roughly.

In your ship when you pull the stick back to lift the prow, you are making the ship turn in your 'vertical' axis in an arc, but you and your head want to carry on in a straight line so your head should drop.

Unfortunately in the game your head rises.. this looks wrong (try it - you see less of the dash when turning 'up') . Its upside down, so maybe the OP has a point in a way?
 

GloatingSwine

GloatingSwine
Ultimately a good designer would account for the head movement under g forces and make sure that functional elements of the dashboard remain in view....

I guess the next 1300 years is long enough that UX design got uninvented.
 

Old Duck

Old Duck
Just an extra tidbit of insight - our screens are tiny viewports through which we see the cockpit, kinda like looking at the world through a welding mask. This is why the G-force simulation can be bad, because we have such a small FOV defined by the limitations of the screen itself, thus causing instruments to move off the screen but not out of the range of our vision. I see this clearly in VR, where I can face straight forward and move my eyes far left, right, up, and down, and see WAY more than I can see on my 2D screen.

How does this translate into gameplay? It sucks when you pull high Gs and the radar disappears from your 2D "viewport", making it mighty hard to track the target you're pulling those Gs to get the drop on. This is why there should be a setting to reduce this artificial "my head is getting pulled down" effect. And no, I'm not talking about cranking FOV to grocery store mirror fisheye mode - that's not the answer.
 

Sunyavadin

Sunyavadin
Craith said:
Personally I'd like to have a small amount of forced movement in VR, but only a very low amount (forced movement is very nauseating in VR - but having some on extreme maneuvers would improve my immersion a lot).
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TBF, these forces can be pretty nauseating IRL, so there's your immersion right there, if you need some bags on standby!
 

thistle

T
What I'm still not understanding from the OP is this - what instruments are disappearing off the screen? Just the very bottom of the scanner? I'm not seeing why that's a problem. I mean I get it might be annoying to some people I guess but I don't think it actually removes anything useful from the screen.

My personal bugbear would be the little circular directional compass. I'd like that - and only that - as a physical instrument on the ship dash rather than the hologram, so I can still follow a series of jumps without having the hologram hud on at all.
 

GloatingSwine

GloatingSwine
thistle said:
What I'm still not understanding from the OP is this - what instruments are disappearing off the screen? Just the very bottom of the scanner? I'm not seeing why that's a problem. I mean I get it might be annoying to some people I guess but I don't think it actually removes anything useful from the screen.

My personal bugbear would be the little circular directional compass. I'd like that - and only that - as a physical instrument on the ship dash rather than the hologram, so I can still follow a series of jumps without having the hologram hud on at all.
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In some ships IIRC target health can disappear off the bottom of the screen.
 

Old Duck

Old Duck
thistle said:
What I'm still not understanding from the OP is this - what instruments are disappearing off the screen? Just the very bottom of the scanner? I'm not seeing why that's a problem. I mean I get it might be annoying to some people I guess but I don't think it actually removes anything useful from the screen.

My personal bugbear would be the little circular directional compass. I'd like that - and only that - as a physical instrument on the ship dash rather than the hologram, so I can still follow a series of jumps without having the hologram hud on at all.
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Odds are you are using a wider FOV, but many of us prefer a narrower FOV to "get it right" based on our monitors and setup. The tighter the FOV, the more likely important instruments are lost due to the cockpit G-force animations.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKpqxsn_R_8
 

Achtung-Goomba

Achtung-Goomba
Old Duck said:
Odds are you are using a wider FOV, but many of us prefer a narrower FOV to "get it right" based on our monitors and setup. The tighter the FOV, the more likely important instruments are lost due to the G-force cockpit animations.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKpqxsn_R_8
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I hadn’t considered adjusting FOV settings; I don’t know if I can on PS4 but I’ve never checked, as it is on whatever the default is I’ve never noticed a problem but I understand your point better now thanks.
 

Winterwalker

Winterwalker
GloatingSwine said:
In some ships IIRC target health can disappear off the bottom of the screen.
Click to expand...

100 Credit Bounty Awarded (top right, alert panel) is quite a good indicator of target hull = 0%
o7 You're welcome :)

To the OP surely you don't look at your insturuments while turning? Aren't you better to look where you're turning? On the straights you can afford a peak at at instrumentation, doing that while cornering is just silly. Besides, in all honesty, there's no info there that won't still be there, when you look again, two and a half seconds later.

Unnecessary nerf imo .. presumably from a Corvette driver trying to remove my iEagle's obvious turn advantage.
 
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