You still trying to prove to everyone that it's the AI and not you?
If you had this dedication to learning combat, you wouldn't need to joust.
If you had this dedication to learning combat, you wouldn't need to joust.
Please make NPCs stop jousting in combat.
- Thread starter eyeonus
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In the history of threads complaining about AI combat tactics how many have actually resulted in FD rewriting the AI?
Especially when it seems it's mostly you that has the problem [noob]
You could be right. If all the NPCs did stuff like that you would definitely be right. But just like players have varying degrees of combat proficiency, the NPCs should as well. As it stands now, regardless of combat ranking, all the NPCs have pitiful performance. All I'm asking for is for the higher ranked NPCs to be better at flying than the lower ranked ones.
I'm perfectly fine for the harmless and mostly harmless ranked NPCs to continue as they are.
I want the upper classmen, the dangreous, the deadly, the elite ranked NPCs, to actually pose a challenge.
I would consider myself to be an above average pilot when it comes to combat, myself, and even then I feel like I'm boasting a bit. I shouldn't be able to take out an Elite NPC pilot without even losing my shields, but I can. I should get my @$$ royally handed to me every time, at least until I can improve my own skills to the point that I can actually fight on par with them.
Maybe your experience is different, but I find much more enjoyment when I'm losing to a better opponent than when I'm winning against a worse one. In chess, for example, I absolutely love it when someone mates me, because that means I've found someone better than I am, and if I play them enough, I can learn how to be better at chess myself but watching how that person beats me and learning from it.
Right right, you said, and I quote (though emphasis mine):
Yet, the 2nd fight shows a battle with a single (1v1) Python who doesn't joust or tilt or whatever you are calling it now. You have a player using the tactic to his advantage and a python trying to counter it, which isn't at all what you claimed. In the third fight is pretty much 1v1 with the Anaconda since he ignores the SLF entirely and the anaconda does not joust/tilt/whatever at all. The player tries and fails, sure, but the Anaconda does not joust nor does the ignored SLF.
Also, the one thing the video did clearly demonstrate is that what the player was doing, and the different ships at play, had an absolute effect on what the NPC AI was doing. The eagle was jousting because it could and pretty much had to. The Python was not because it didn't need to at all. Nor the Anaconda.
So, you can keep moving the goal posts all day long. "Every Single Fight" becomes "All the 1v1s" becomes "All the 1v1s that don't have other ships engaged" becomes "All the 1v1s except the 1v1s where it doesn't happen" but the reality is you demonstrated yourself wrong.
Thread title should be changed to "All NPCs joust, except when they don't."
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I have no idea. I'm guessing two hundred and one. One that made FDev improve the AI, and two hundred from noobs complaining the new AI was too hard that made FDev revert the improvement. I'm probably underestimating on that 200 number, though.
I do know, from what others have said on this thread, that the AI has been changed at least three times.
So, one can always hope.
This is one of your first posts, which would indicate you don't engage in combat very often, which is why so many respondents here tried to offer you advice gleamed from the years of combat in this game. Yet you not only dismissed their input, you belittled them in the process. I know it might be difficult for you to understand but going by the statement you made in the above post, you may be the reason you seemingly always end up in a nose to nose engagement.
As an experiment I firstly jumped in my vulture and headed to my local High Res yesterday just to see if the NPCs only attack nose to nose and whether it is impossible to get behind or to the side of the NPC (thus negating the joust). I killed 20 ships, every one of them either from behind, below, above or to the side, never once from directly in front. Then I switched ships to the FdL and repeated the exercise, and got exactly the same result. And as you can see from my signature block, I am not a great pilot the only reason I have the rank I do is that I have been playing this game for a long time.
So instead of just sitting there telling everyone else they are wrong, provide us some information:
1. What ship(s) do you use in combat
2. What is your Combat Rank
3. Where do you fight, Nav Beacons, Res, CZ, Assassination Missions (as the NPC will differ in each of those, this is important)
I originally called it "joust" so as to not confuse people, but it has since been requested that I use the proper terminology, so I have since been calling it "tilt", since that what it is.
In the run-down I point out, to the second, every time the NPC does a tilt, in each fight. Partly because the fight was longer, there's more tilts by the Anaconda NPC in fight #3 in that video than in any of the other fights.
I'm not moving the goal post. From the start, this has been about NPCs jousting ad nauseum in 1v1 battles. I even said, in the OP, that this isn't about battles involving multiple (read, more than two) ships, because jousting isn't nearly so apparent or annoying in those situations.
When I said "every single fight (, with the exception of fight #5, where the NPC dies before being able to do anything),", I was referring specifically to every single fight in that video, and the single exception to "every single fight" was stated to be due to the fact that that particular NPC was destroyed too quickly for it to do anything, jousting or otherwise. You'll note that, in the run-down for that fight, I noted that it does appear that that particular NPC was beginning a boost directly towards the player in the instant before it exploded, which means it may have been attempting to joust, but since it was destroyed right then, there's no way to tell for sure.
All the 1v1s that don't have other ships engaged? Seriously? Do you realize what you just said? If there's another ship engaged, that means there's at least 3 ships involved, which is obviously not a 1v1.
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This assumes the AI makes a distinction when other ships are fighting, which it doesn't appear to based on my experience fighting in this game. If you focus on a single ship, that ship behaves in a certain way regardless of whether there's another ship throwing missiles up your tail pipe so yes I made the distinction. So, in that case, a 1v1 per the AI would be a battle where they only focus on one ship and that one ship focuses on them. I can, however, yield that i don't know the inner workings of FDEV's AI so I can't say for certain, I just never saw a difference.
Now are you gonna keep ignoring the python fight and pretending that didn't happen?
As for moving goal posts, per your reply below you just moved them further along to:
"NPCs always joust in 1v1s that I define, not the AI, even when they aren't jousting at all if your rank is competent or lower and you are playing months ago but now I dunno."
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I have dismissed all irrelevant input. This isn't a "how do I fight better" thread. I know I'm not the best, I know I have room for improvement, I know where to go to read and/or watch what I can do to get better. I don't need off-topic discussions of my combat ability on a thread about the combat AI.
Yet again you assume that I'm so bad at this that I'm always ending up nose to nose.
Negating the tilt doesn't mean the AI isn't tilting, so you are still missing my point.
The player's combat skill has nothing to do with the AI decision to tilt. A good pilot may be able to fly in such a way that the NPC isn't able to tilt, but that doesn't mean the AI isn't attempting to tilt.
The fact that you have a tilt that you need to negate in the first place is my point.
Good for you, you are a decent enough pilot that you can outflank an AI that rarely does anything other than attempt to tilt at you.
Even though all of these questions are completely irrelevant to the topic at hand, since you are behaving like a pit bull with his favorite toy bone, here you go:
None. I sold my Vulture months ago.
I don't remember, it's been months since I last fought and I haven't been paying attention to my rankings. I think EDSM records that, let me look.... Competent, 50% of the way to whatever the next rank is called.
It was mostly either the High Rez or Haz Rez in Liu Bajara 4(?), although I did a bit of all of that.
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wow.
I want the OP as my lawyer if I ever get in trouble.
I want the OP as my lawyer if I ever get in trouble.
Well, your experience may be different. In the first video I did a run-down for, there were quite a few fights that were not 1v1, and in all of those, there was little to no jousting. I noticed a definite change in the flying of the NPCs once other ships entered the combat- mostly rolling, pitching, and boosting erratically in what seemed like an inability to decide which assailant to fire back on.
I don't know what you think I'm ignoring. Please explain? Are you saying I'm ignoring the fact that the python pilot was also tilting?
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No you don't. I never even went to law school, let alone passing the bar.
I also have no idea if that was said seriously or mockingly, but I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're not trying to insult.
Bob Lighthouse
Banned
If you are going to make sweeping judgements about the game AI and the posters who are commenting, your experience is certainly relevant.
It's way more objective than "You must be dense."
LOL
So no wing assassination missions, or level 5-7 pirate activity?
you mean like jousting in front of kids?
Bob Lighthouse
Banned
No, the second fight in the video, the one where the Python is in a 1v1 with the player and is not tilting/jousting/fwgwagading/whatever and instead is trying to counter the player who is doing that and, when not being boosted at, is content to sit in front of the player blasting him with superior firepower. Or have we redifined "jousting" to now mean "the NPC is facing the player and firing." Can't leave those goalposts standing in one place for too long afterall.
Entire argument nullified.
Yeah I am beginning to think the OP doesn't realise the NPCs are tailored against the skill level of the player, hence why a beginner in a Sidewider won't encounter a Rez full of Elite NPCs in Anacondas and FdLs nor will he admit that it could be his lack of combat experience that result in the engagements he is seeing.
Never said the OP was right, they would just argue the point till I died of old age.
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