PLEASE MAKE POWERPLAY IN "OPEN ONLY"

Just curious...

By definition, Multi-Crew and Wings cannot be utilized by solo players, so mode-agnostic features is a fallacious arguement.

FDEV would be well served by splitting the consoles from the PC players. Allowing Sony and Microsoft to dictate terms that are bad for your product is poor decision-making on FDEV's part.
 
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First MUDs starting appearing in the 1970s, IIRC. I started playing them in the late 1980s, myself.

When started playing the internet didn't even exist for the general population here, we connected to a BBS. A while after that when it was just dial up internet I helped set up and run a dial in game service with a room full of modems so people could play games without having to pay an hourly fee. We never made any money from it but it was fun and a good intro for when I went into IT a while later. Ah the good old days, they can keep them, I much prefer the good new days!
 
When started playing the internet didn't even exist for the general population here, we connected to a BBS. A while after that when it was just dial up internet I helped set up and run a dial in game service with a room full of modems so people could play games without having to pay an hourly fee. We never made any money from it but it was fun and a good intro for when I went into IT a while later. Ah the good old days, they can keep them, I much prefer the good new days!
Logically. Playing Chess by fax, or phone; is a similar form of gaming and then before that, we played by post.
 
That is an opinion, not a fact. The feedback I mean.

A while ago, a big guy in F.D. made a proposal to the players. That feedback, is now reflected, by the inaction, to implement said proposal. That is a fact. Otherwise you would not be here, whining and refusing to accept any reasonable argument against your own demands.
That's a fallacy not a fact.
The feedback was overwhelmingly in favour of the changes being made. The devs' inaction does not reflect the feedback in any reasonable sense, it is contrary to it.
 
That's a fallacy not a fact.
The feedback was overwhelmingly in favour of the changes being made. The devs' inaction does not reflect the feedback in any reasonable sense, it is contrary to it.

You will have to present some evidence that it was in favour, I would disagree and say it was for the most part against, but then we are all subject to confirmation bias and tend to ignore ideas and posts that disagree with our preconceived ideas, this is why when you make a statement like this it must be backed up evidence, not should, must, otherwised it can be dismissed.

What is presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
 
You will have to present some evidence that it was in favour, I would disagree and say it was for the most part against, but then we are all subject to confirmation bias and tend to ignore ideas and posts that disagree with our preconceived ideas, this is why when you make a statement like this it must be backed up evidence, not should, must, otherwised it can be dismissed.

What is presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

You can just count the yes and no in that proposal thread. There'll be nothing clearer than that.

Of course you can say it's just the forums. But remember, it's the forums where FDev declare and perform actions related to the game, like the recent InIn vote.
 
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Oh no, you mean they are making changes based on the PVP part of the game. Maybe thats because the feedback is taken from players that take part in all of the game. Instead of the ones whining when they get blown up or complain about PVPers in general.

Who would have thunk it.

Shocking I know.

This forum right now.

8ubGFLt.gif

Damn you, have to give you a like for the meme.

However, you fail to provide any sort of rebuttal to my point :p
 
The flaw with that line of thinking is that there is no server as such - at least not in the way it is with the average MMO... other than that singular point, I probably agree with the reset of your post to one degree or another.

There could be...
 
You can just count the yes and no in that proposal thread. There'll be nothing clearer than that.

Of course you can say it's just the forums. But remember, it's the forums where FDev declare and perform actions related to the game, like the recent InIn vote.

Well, there is an argument that majority aren't always the best at knowing what is best for the game. Take for example the vote regarding ship transfer times, those who lost might agree with that statement ;)
 
Damn you, have to give you a like for the meme.

However, you fail to provide any sort of rebuttal to my point :p
I dont get what im supposed to disagree with. Yes, they made changes around what happens with missiles and player interaction. I dont see why this is an issue. This is a multiplayer game after all.

You're right about it. But you dont like being right about it? I dunno weird conversation.
 
Just curious...

By definition, Multi-Crew and Wings cannot be utilized by solo players, so mode-agnostic features is a fallacious arguement.

FDEV would be well served by splitting the consoles from the PC players. Allowing Sony and Microsoft to dictate terms that are bad for your product is poor decision-making on FDEV's part.

Point 1: They can be used by people in PG. Does this mean PP should be removed from solo but not PG, since PG has parity with open?

Point 2: Agreed that it does mean there isn't parity. That is why some people want NPC wingmen and want to see their NPC crew in cockpits. To bring parity.

Point 3: Powerplay does not require people to be in the same instance/mode/platform to work.
 
Point 1: They can be used by people in PG. Does this mean PP should be removed from solo but not PG, since PG has parity with open?

Point 2: Agreed that it does mean there isn't parity. That is why some people want NPC wingmen and want to see their NPC crew in cockpits. To bring parity.

Point 3: Powerplay does not require people to be in the same instance/mode/platform to work.

Powerplay failed because of point 3. Not because it was a bad design. You have to put people in the same place.


Point 2 they get someone in a fighter bay. Some games want people to use group play. See world of warcraft dungeons and raids.

Point 1 see why powerplay failed in your point 3.

Not hard to figure out. Dont know why people try and argue about it otherwise. Its completely pointless to do so.
 
While it is an internet poll, its as useful as anything we have at 77k (if memory serves) votes. And if you look at the Flash topic hard yes / hard no that follows a similar trend. Its about as good evidence of intent as we will ever see.
You will have to present some evidence that it was in favour, I would disagree and say it was for the most part against, but then we are all subject to confirmation bias and tend to ignore ideas and posts that disagree with our preconceived ideas, this is why when you make a statement like this it must be backed up evidence, not should, must, otherwised it can be dismissed.

What is presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
Nice copypasta rhetorical device. It is supposed to be for dismissing spurious claims, but can just as easily be used to lazily dismiss any argument you personally disagree with, as in this case. The evidence is all on this forum, and on obsidian ant's youtube channel. Dont equate people with the likes of flat earthers or disengenuous agitators just because you cant be bothered to do some basic research on the topic youre trying to discuss. Your ignorance is primarily your own responsibility, yeh?
 

Lestat

Banned
Nice copypasta rhetorical device. It is supposed to be for dismissing spurious claims, but can just as easily be used to lazily dismiss any argument you personally disagree with, as in this case. The evidence is all on this forum, and on obsidian ant's youtube channel. Dont equate people with the likes of flat earthers or disengenuous agitators just because you cant be bothered to do some basic research on the topic youre trying to discuss. Your ignorance is primarily your own responsibility, yeh?
Thing is. I rather see a real Poll made by FRONTIER Not by some youtuber or a topic but a REAL POLL.
 
You will have to present some evidence that it was in favour, I would disagree and say it was for the most part against, but then we are all subject to confirmation bias and tend to ignore ideas and posts that disagree with our preconceived ideas, this is why when you make a statement like this it must be backed up evidence, not should, must, otherwised it can be dismissed.

What is presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

I went through and counted every mention of hard yes and hard no. You can do the same but in the end it was about 65% hard yes, with about a further 10% "Open only if they do xyz (mainly move modules to tech brokers).

Here is the link, you can do it too https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/powerplay-proposal.426940/

And here is that Obsidian Ant Poll:

132295


As you can see, even when the question is split into three (rather than a binary choice) Open only wins. If you add both weighted merits and open only (i.e. people feel the status quo is not good enough) 75% want Powerplay rules altered.
 

Lestat

Banned
I went through and counted every mention of hard yes and hard no. You can do the same but in the end it was about 65% hard yes, with about a further 10% "Open only if they do xyz (mainly move modules to tech brokers).

Here is the link, you can do it too https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/powerplay-proposal.426940/

And here is that Obsidian Ant Poll:
And do you know how many youtube videos people can have. I can have 7 my self because I have 7 Clash of Clan accounts. And ask my family or friends to vote a certain way so is not Valid. Now if FRONTIER had their own poll. They can set it on player accounts. People who play the game.
 
Well, there is an argument that majority aren't always the best at knowing what is best for the game. Take for example the vote regarding ship transfer times, those who lost might agree with that statement ;)

Even FDev would never know until they put it in the game.
 
Will Lex Fernetti I don't blame people for their views. You want cut many player from having a feature they have payed for including mine that unfair.
 
Here's the thing, though. Even in Open, your risks vary wildly, based on where you go in the game, what time you play at, and where you are located on this planet.
Until recently, my typical play windows were during weekday global peak players on days I worked, combined with weekday global minimum players, on days I didn't have to work. My risk was practically non-existent, since I was playing outside of my local prime time.

Thats true to some extent now for some people. Others who fight in expansions or get caught UMing / forting might say otherwise, since (at least for the two powers I worked / work for now) the geographic spread is quite even, although it favours EU / US slightly. And when things get fraught players / die hards (delete depending on view) become more and more active as the cycle reaches its close.

The other is that the new proposal significantly reduces the places Powerplay ships need to go. Capitals are the hubs and will always have traffic of some sort traveling to stations due to inbound forting. Expansions and prep are also places that will have traffic- taking an extreme case, a million merit prep in a hotly contested system will have to be transported somehow.

My hub, Harma always has someone loitering for example. Unlike today where a bubble has 15 systems you could be in, in the proposal only the control system matters, reducing possible player areas down from 15 to 1.

Back then, should I have been rewarded as heavily as those who were playing during global peak players, which roughly corresponds to European Prime Time? On paper, my risk was greatest at that time, but in reality, due to how instancing "works" in this game, my risk was about as great as it was during global minimum: almost nil. Should the players in Tokyo, Japan, who were playing during their local prime time, have been rewarded poorly due to playing during global minimum players, despite their much greater risks?
And should the player who still connects via dial-up through AOL be rewarded as heavily as the one with the fiber optic connection, even though they're playing in the same city at the same time?

That's the problem with rewarding mode choice as opposed to rewarding actual risk. An Open player would get the same results, regardless of whether their risks are the same as those who are in Solo/PG because they play outside of their local prime time, or as great as the European Prime Time Player who is facing three times the number of players as the East Asian Prime time player.

And you really can't reward actual risk either. Once you start taking player actions into account, you inevitably get collusion between players, or between a player and their alt account(s).

If you take that risk according to those rules, then yes. While no system is perfect its the best we have. I understand what you are saying, and I do agree with it that direct PvP needs some form of recognition- however unless FD tell us this is happening its not a consideration, and instead we have an imperfect passive system instead.

And should an experienced Buckyball Racer flying a blockade runner fit for purpose be rewarded as heavily as someone who insists on following the "forum recommended Supercruise technique" in an unshielded Type-9? ;)

If you live and drop your cargo then thats worth the reward. In this feature death is the filter, not the ship you fly.

That's why I'm not fussed about the fact that all modes are rewarded equally. I'm absolutely fine with that. My reward for playing in Open is a more interesting game. I don't care that I'm flying under a self-imposed handicap, because I've also got other self-imposed handicaps above and beyond playing in Open, such as the pilot ejection rules. Should I get an even greater reward for that, compared to an Open player? Of course not.

But for those who fully engage in Powerplay its a frustrating experience. Some powers play in open because it allows a better game experience / requires more skill, while others attack them in open but fort in solo. One is harder to do than the other, but not rewarded at all. Some might say play in kind but then that stratifies the game into a boring haul-em-up and 'sort of shoot them in expansions maybe'. It can't be all things to everyone because people will choose. Its a bit like being in a war and choosing who can shoot at you. Ultimately the two extremes are either make it all solo or make it all open.

I want an Open that is fun to play in, with as many players as possible, with as little cheating and toxic behavior as possible. To me, the best way of getting that is ensuring that everyone who is in Open is there voluntarily, free from coercion, whether that coercion takes the form of gating gameplay people enjoy behind a PvP-wall, or simply bribing them to play in that mode. It won't eliminate it entirely, but for a PvE/PvP hybrid, Open Mode Elite Dangerous is a far better environment than others I've played in the past, and Powerplay better still in my experience.

Powerplay or not, toxic players will always exist and so will cheating sadly. If Powerplay is moved to open you opt in and hopefully be told what it involves. And if thats too much FD can weight merits which keeps everything as it is and softly encourages people into Open but keeps the choice of modes (at a cost).
 
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