Please remove Denuvo for allowing legit buyers to play the game

[LN]

It makes me wonder.

Is it the fact that Denuvo is the DRM here? Or just because the game has DRM?

I don't really know Denuvo other than it is a way to protect your product. Which I find perfectly clear and normal.

I am just curious what the real problem is....

They can still do it like EA did with SimCity [squeeeeee]

 

[danijami23]

I am not a fan of it either, especially with the history of some of their employees.. But that said, so far Denuvo hasn't done anything like that. All the rumors about it being a hack tool, killing hardware and killing performance are just that: rumors.

And if the game has been cracked now (come on, we all know this would happen eventually), maybe Frontier could remove it, or maybe not as it doesn't affect anyone. It only checks after the install once, and you need internet for the install anyway so whats the problem?

It's not quite how Denuvo works. There are triggers built into the game's executable which perform lookups against your license at certain (developer specified) points. Allegedly it doesn t have an impact on performance, but in mine and others experience, games I've played that had Denuvo and later has it removed saw better performance in benchmark tests.

Also I'm not sure how I feel about the "Denuvo hasn't done anything wrong yet" statement. It's a bit like saying that Putin is trustworthy because he hasn't killed anyone you know.

 

[Adri]

Kidding aside, PC is not simulation evolved, but more like simulation evolving. With every update, PC get better and as such you WILL need a internet connection to keep evolving PC. And as for Denuvo, yes some call it the root of all evil, but without it, how many of the "FREE updates" would not have been free?

This is the best forum post I've seen in a while. [up]

 

[Marnit]

Lets first start by saying that I bought this game (as you can probably tell by this post's background), and in fact played since alpha 1...

Me personally, I'd love to see Denuvo go if it serves no use.
Aside from it's impact on performance that may or may not be minimal (Don't know for sure).
It also requires internet connection every first time you run the game after each update.

Happened a few times to me that the game would update, my net goes down and I figure might as well play PC.
To get a notification that Denuvo won't let me, requiring a manual boot after each update to prevent.

Granted, most instances of this have been in alpha, but it's still annoying that it can happen...



Edit: Did they remove the planet coaster backdrop thing for owning the game?

Edit 2: Still there, just extremely vague on current monitor...

 

[mbc]

First of all:
Big Thanks !! to the mods for not closing this thread, even if it is an badly thematic for them here !! I appreciate it !!!!!!!!! [up]

I have opened this thread because it is the second time I am struggling with DENUVO / STEAM.

My personal problem with no internet-connection is since some day, since I know it will happen in next months.
And also if it is possible to get some additional hardware to get WIFI on my laptop, my decision is that it will not get internet-access at all, specially not in other networks.
Reason: Data-Protection, you never know what is going on in other networks. Also the attacks by hackers are now very common and I am not willing to spend 60$ for an antivirus-internet-protection, this is WAY to heavy. You have to pay here, you have to pay there, for every little piece you have to pay in todays world. Its too expensive in that case. The cheapest and ONLY 100%-Security is: no Internet.

WIFI over smartphone is also not possible, because my "smartphone" isnt "smart", its just a phone with real buttons, its for telephoning, not for internet, not for cooking, not for repairing, not for drawing ... [squeeeeee]. Also prices for traffic are WAY too heavy, I dont support these prices ... its impertinent and way too overprized.

The second reason is some month ago. A mother asked me if I know a good game for her 8-year old son. Immediatly I had PC in my mind, he would loved it. But then I asked her for the specs of his computer ... A kids computer is way to slow for running it. His computer is 3 years old and "only" costed about 250 $, she didnt knew any specs, but I guess that its not matching the minimum specs.
I could have helped out a bit, but then I guessed the next problem, and that was Denuvo.
They dont have internet so he wont be able to install the game, and downloading 7 GB with a smartphone is way too expensive. Also they dont want her son to have access to internet, so there is no way to run PC until it needs some time a connection to verify ...

This game is meant for kids, but the specs are very high for a kids-computer. Also there is still an internet-connection needed (seems so), but should kids have internet ? Here is is forbitten to use even "normal"-bad-words, while you only have to type in 3 letters to get adult-stuff in google. This makes me feel bad ...

This is what I mean. Denuvo protects the game from being played by legit customers, nothing more, pirates play it everywhere without problems. Also: People who decided not to pay for the game WILL never buy it, so you cant loose money you never had. But here they LOST money, because they could have sold one more copy, because the mother was willing to pay, but then couldnt use the game because of Denuvo / Steam.
In the actual state I couldnt recommend PC to her, because it wouldnt run or stop to run some day.

I still wished they have kept it as they did it initially and in the good old times. A downloadable installer, some update-files, thats it, works wonderful, for a workshop you dont need STEAM, you can use you own server for this, no need to use STEAM.
I feel bad for this situations but it truly shows that it harm more than it has as advantage.

A game with internet-option is nice, but more and more games are forced on having permanent internet, even if they basically dont need internet for gameplay (like here in PC).
So what should I do now? Tell the boy that we need to break the laws to get a paid game run ? This is a bad message for kids, I dont do ... so I have to tell him he cant play because his parents dont allow him to get unwanted adult-pages over internet ...

I cant see any solution to let this kid play this wonderful kids-game ... hope you understand why I posted this thread in summary.

For me, so I dont have another change as trying out how long it will be playable, then I have to do so ...

 

[Chems]

1: So you don't want internet because you are afraid of hackers. Okay, fair enough. Internet protection and anti-virus software is not going to protect you from these so called 'hackers', so no need to spend money on them. Hack attacks against regular people are very common? That's a first.

2: Even if the game didn't have Denuvo, you still wouldn't be able to install it because for this you need Steam and internet. For new updates you need internet as well.

3: What has not having the right hardware to play the game to do with Denuvo exactly? Without Denuvo you still need to meet the system requirements (Denuvo's impact on performance in PC is minimal), and you would still need to download the 7 GB (which requires internet anyway).

4: The game doesn't require an always online connection. The game needs to authenticate once after installation (which you need internet for anyway), after every update (which you need internet for, again) and after changing hardware (?) (which you would probably want to have a connection for to upgrade drivers).

So, removing Denuvo is not gonna help the kid play the game at all. Pirates can play without Denuvo, okay, but you know you still need internet to download the game, right?

 

[Helena]

I also got puzzled about the "no internet" thing, because even if you remove denuvo you still have to have internet to download the game itself and do the updates. Steam requires internet. Not for constant playing but at least for the initial install and the updates.

Also, computer requirements.... If it won't match, it won't help with or without denuvo.

If the kid's computer meet the requirements, then, no matter denuvo or not, the kid gotta connect to internet to install it. Maybe go to a friend or neighbor with internet and ask to borrow their interne time for the install+update?

Not defending denuvo at all, I am just puzzled about strange arguments.

You got me however with the cell phone. I am really biased here living in country with relatively low cost data account. While I do realize the initial download might break the month's bandwith.... it might work for the updates - for me at least. But I know, it is not feasible, I am sorry for that. Maybe just for the connectivity thing, but not for big data loads. Sorry for that indeed.

You are here, writing this post, so somehow you have connection to internet. Maybe the kid can download through you?

 

[Ramm]

1: So you don't want internet because you are afraid of hackers. Okay, fair enough. Internet protection and anti-virus software is not going to protect you from these so called 'hackers', so no need to spend money on them. Hack attacks against regular people are very common? That's a first.

2: Even if the game didn't have Denuvo, you still wouldn't be able to install it because for this you need Steam and internet. For new updates you need internet as well.

3: What has not having the right hardware to play the game to do with Denuvo exactly? Without Denuvo you still need to meet the system requirements (Denuvo's impact on performance in PC is minimal), and you would still need to download the 7 GB (which requires internet anyway).

4: The game doesn't require an always online connection. The game needs to authenticate once after installation (which you need internet for anyway), after every update (which you need internet for, again) and after changing hardware (?) (which you would probably want to have a connection for to upgrade drivers).

So, removing Denuvo is not gonna help the kid play the game at all. Pirates can play without Denuvo, okay, but you know you still need internet to download the game, right?

I also don't get any of those internet arguments. Who honestly doesn't use internet this day and age? Seems more like a personal problem. However, pirates CAN play the game with denuvo. So there is no reason we, the loyal and paying customers, should longer put up with it. Because like this it's really the opposite world. They can apparently play the game without it or for them denuvo doesn't work but for us it does. That is just wrong wrong. So many game developers choose to remove it after it's become obsolete. Which I think is a fair choice and shows that a company values it's paying customers more than it does care about those criminals. Also: i have also heard and noticed myself that every game with denuvo just is laggy, most of them dont have any mods so any chance of getting this removed and seeing the game improved is worth the shot for me. I say remove it if it no longer does it's job! [up][heart]

 

[LN]

I also don't get any of those internet arguments. Who honestly doesn't use internet this day and age? Seems more like a personal problem. ]

Totally agree.

 

[xyphic]

I also don't get any of those internet arguments. Who honestly doesn't use internet this day and age? Seems more like a personal problem.

To be fair, there are legitimate reasons why someone might not have regular access to the internet. For example, I understand that many offshore oil rigs have no or limited internet access. In the OP's case the issue is that they are being temporarily relocated for work and neither they nor their employer are willing to pay for the second internet connection.

In the case of the friend's child, I get the impression that it's less about not having availability of internet access and more about restricting the child from accessing it (presumably by it not being available in the house at all). It's an unfortunate fact of life that physical software sales are dwindling, and even those that *do* have a physical release tend to just be a box with a Steam code in. Neither Denuvo nor Steam should preclude the game being played in this case, as long as an internet connection can be provided for as long as is required to download the game and put Steam into its offline mode. Of course this isn't necessarily the case for *all* games, as some developers may choose to require Denuvo to activate periodically. But as I understand it, that isn't the case with Planet Coaster.

 

[Ramm]

To be fair, there are legitimate reasons why someone might not have regular access to the internet. For example, I understand that many offshore oil rigs have no or limited internet access. In the OP's case the issue is that they are being temporarily relocated for work and neither they nor their employer are willing to pay for the second internet connection.

In the case of the friend's child, I get the impression that it's less about not having availability of internet access and more about restricting the child from accessing it (presumably by it not being available in the house at all). It's an unfortunate fact of life that physical software sales are dwindling, and even those that *do* have a physical release tend to just be a box with a Steam code in. Neither Denuvo nor Steam should preclude the game being played in this case, as long as an internet connection can be provided for as long as is required to download the game and put Steam into its offline mode. Of course this isn't necessarily the case for *all* games, as some developers may choose to require Denuvo to activate periodically. But as I understand it, that isn't the case with Planet Coaster.

Well then it should be 100% certain it only checks once and then is set (like other games used to do back in the day). But yeah if you buy it and for some reason it needs to checkup again even if you dont have an internet connection so the game doesnt know it needs to update and you can't play the game you're pretty much out of luck. I personally just like to see it all removed because first of all it doesn't do it's job anymore and second more importantly so we can finally open up possibilities for modding.

 

[Chems]

PCs implementation of Denuvo doesn't prevent modding, it only protects the .exe.

But if it truly lost it's function now for Planet Coaster, they might as well remove it I guess.

 

[Spanky]

Hello Frontier,
Please rethink about the benefits that Denuvo has ... please dont act like this to fair players and fair customers.

... and open also the doors for that ones who play unfair and don't buy your products. [where is it][wacky]

 

[mbc]

... and open also the doors for that ones who play unfair and don't buy your products. [where is it][wacky]

So you like that most buyers are restricted because of fights against a few people who will not pay ?
With physical stuff you dont have that problem, you pay for it and you can use it anywhere at any time.
If they decide to be unfair and are not willing to pay for it, you never will sell a copy to them, you cant loose those people or that money, but instead you can loose people who are willing to pay with this.

But the unfair people have a huge benefit: They dont have to stuggle with the protection and its restrictions, ONLY the fair users have this problem, and they should PAY for having this ? Why should I be that stupid ?

Why should I pay for a game and then have a huge amount of extra work to get it run because of the protection?
If I am forced to go illegal / or have a amount of work for getting things done, why should I am willing to pay for, do they pay MY time that is wasted?

Why am I forced to give a kids-computer free internet to play this game, while I am not allowed here in this forum to publish <ahem> ? With a "must-Internet-connection" the kid has free access to internet without controll.
You do that with your children, ... ok, but I would not.

Why should I pay for getting a criminal, if I will get one, I will save money, because if I get caught because of that, I will get the same amount of penalty. So why pay and having that risk ?
The industry makes the problems by themselves, they should start to register that.

What is with MP3 and DRM ?
People pay much money for the songs and they they cant play them on their mp3-player or car-radio because of DRM.
So what do they do? They have to find a way to eleminate the DRM, so they can use the products they OWNED legaly.
But getting a criminal that way and have a huge amount of extrawork / time, and that risk ... why paying money for this ?

Paying money AND having the risk ?

There are 3 possibilities:

1. Dont buy the stuff.
2. Buy the stuff and get criminal
3. Steal the stuff and get criminal.

So because of a loyal customer and Denuvo I have now a huge amount of time wasted, NO-ONE pays me that time ... so is this fair ? The result: Never ever buy stuff again ...
Seems like companies wants this, if this is the future ... ok ...
But then they shouldnt cry if nobody will buy stuff ...

 

[Chems]

Jesus Christ dude, no one is going to take you seriously if you keep exaggerating like that. Most buyers are restricted? I don't think so since you require Steam (internet) to install the game in the first place... The game needs to activate once after installation (which requires internet) and after installing an update (which requires internet). Doesn't seem like "a huge amount of extra work to get it to run" to me. And what do you mean by paying for "getting a criminal"?[wacky][wacky][wacky][wacky]

 

[Spanky]

@mbc ... You understand me totally wrong. What i want to say is that you open a door for those criminal elements too, when you open the door for the ones who haved paid for the product. You should alway s habe a look on both sides of a story.

 

[mbc]

@Spanky:
I dont think I missunderstodd you, but I dont see any closed doors. To be truth, most popular software is cracked already, and again: I dont say that this is right / correct, but it is the way it is.
So criminals still have opened doors, while only legit buyers having closed doors. You are closing the doors to the wrong people, it affects the wrong "customers". It still has been the same "game", companies close it, and crackers open it, its only a question of time, it ever has been.

@Chems:
I dont exaggerate, I only see no sin in it. Also my last post have not been exclusive for PC, please dont get it wrong. Also this post is NOT focused on PC (only).
Also in many states / countries it is forbidden to remove a copy-protection, you avoid law by removing it, so you get criminal, because even downloading and using it is illegal.



Tell me ONE advantage YOU as a fair customer have with any kind of copy-protection.

So let me tell you one thing:
Imagine what happens if Steam-servers fail or shut down, or no internet available. What happens in the actual state ?
With many software you are sitting in front of a "black" screen, they perhaps dont start/work, cant be installed / activated. For STEAM-games: You cant even install them, because you dont have a physical copy either.

What do I do in this situation?
I go to basement, grab my box, get a DVD, put it into my drive, install the game, grab my external hard-drive, install the downloaded updates, type in my serial-number, start the game and having fun with playing the stuff I paid for.
This is how older games worked, you got something for your money in reward, you can still use it, anywhere, anytime. FAIR !

They have been still copied by people who never would have paid for it, same like today, but the difference is, that the legal buyer today has nothing in his hand anymore. So for criminals nothing changed, but only for legal buyers.
What is in 5 or 10 years, Steam will be still alive ? You can still play all your game you bought ? I can ... until the medium not gets corrupted, but I can prevent that by making a private copy of it.
You get your money back if you loose your games in future ? I dont think so ... wasted/lost money ...

And if you say "no" : Companies care about that case ... Why ? If they got bankrupt, there is no one left to make a patch for it.
Best example is RCTW, the company (ATARI/NVIZZIO) is still alive, but there are no reactions about people who have problems to start the game, having graphic-problems, problems with errors and restarts, crashes, ... they dont care ...

For me in my case, what have I on extra work If I decide to give this kid the game ?

There are two ways:

Way 1:
1) I download a crack, so I dont need internet at all, thats the easiest way.
2) Drive to the family, install the cracked game.
3) Drive back home.

Way 2:
1) I have to drive to the family.
2) Grab the computer, put it into my car.
3) Drive back to my home.
4) Plug it into my network, configure it.
5) Create an STEAM-Account for an 8 year old kid (is this allowed, hes underage ?)
6) Install the game.
7) Put the computer back into my car.
8) Drive back to the family.
9) Plug in his computer.
10) Drive back home and hope.
----------------------------------------
11) Hope that there will be no pop-us because of PC or Steam, because of protection and missing internet.

I dont like way 1, but I also dont like way 2, because the amount of work is much more anyway ... by having zero advantage at all for me / him / them.

And again, I dont know why they dont have internet, if it is not available or too expensive, or if they dont want to pay for it because they dont have interest in use it in generall. Having something to eat on the table is more important than Facebook ...
And by the way: If you want to sell your Steam-game: you CANT ... so the next restriction ... you cant sell what is yours ...

I really cant understand why people are willing to accept this all ...
Why does everyone like to get treated like a criminal in fact there are problems with internet?
What if prices for internet goes extremly high, because everyone is addicted to it today?
We still have this situation with energy and house-rentals ... they rise up extremly, because people need it and have no alternitive.
What game can you still play if you have no money for internet ? You loose all your Steam games ... I can still play my older ones, because they are MINE ...

As a personal note:
If it was clear that PC will only be at Steam, I would have never bought it, but this wasnt in the beginning.

My result:
I dont got any argument that proves me I am wrong, still not see any reason why legit buyer profit by this.

 

[jrolson]

Yeah, Denuvo is so annoying... I play offline and everytime I restart my PC I have to connect online to get the game to run. Makes me wanna pull my hair out... [blah]

 

[Chems]

I do get where you are coming from, mbc, and the things you are worrying about are valid but also extremely unlikely to happen any time soon.

Personally I am not a fan of DRM, but in Planet Coaster's case, Denuvo doesn't impact on the experience in any way really, since if you have internet and can use Steam, Denuvo in PC isn't going to get in the way. Of course, Steam's DRM in general sucks if you have bad/no internet, but 99% of people who play modern games will have proper connection. The internet is only growing in size, so naturally more and more aspects of our daily lives will involve internet in some shape or form, just because for the majority of people it is so much more convenient.

Naming one advantage of DRM can be tricky. For Denuvo, developers put this in their game to protect it against piracy. Now the question is, do developers actually gain more from protecting the game against piracy for a few weeks/months? Of course, pirated copies are potential lost sales, but not always, since people pirated the game because it is free, but wouldn't have bought it for money if no free option was available. The opposite is also true, maybe someone pirated it to try it before buying it, thus piracy results in potential extra buyers. But since developers put the anti-piracy measures in place, it's fair to assume that DRM will result in more overall sold copies (or fewer lost sales). This results in more them earning more money which can be used to update the game, or make new games, which is something I would call an advantage. So here is a potential reason legit buyers can profit off of DRM.

As for the kid, it's an unfortunate situation. I don't know where he/her or you live and if it is more common where you live to have no connection available. If that's the case that truly sucks, as virtually all modern games require an connection at least for downloading it. And i know how it feels to be left out of the continued development of the internet. When I lived with my parents we had an extremely slow connection because we lived on a farm outside of any major city (and I live in the Netherlands, one of the most developed countries in the world and still many of the outer areas have extremely bad or no connection at all) and downloading a game could take days, but most of the time even longer, since downloading meant no one else could use the internet which is of course a problem. But hey, you just can't have everything right? Maybe you can get the kid another game to play?

As for your personal note, Planet Coaster initially was available in Frontiers launcher, which isn't really any different from Steam regarding needing a connection to install and activate. The boxed version also came after the launch of the game and contains a Steam-code so this option wouldn't have made a difference either.

 

[MyNamesLiam]

Another pirate complaining about Denuvo when it does absolutely nothing.
And seriously you dont want to install Steam? That is your excuse?