Just took a look into the new animals and their requirements.
12,000 squaremeters and 4,000 sqm water? Jesus...
12,000 squaremeters and 4,000 sqm water? Jesus...
Polarbears
- Thread starter Fortunanovesia
- Start date
Hiya,
Polar Bears in zoos are a hot topic in general, so when we talked about bringing them to Planet Zoo we wanted to make sure it was in line with the overall message of the game: conservation and animal welfare. Polar Bears are supposed to be challenging to have in a zoo, because just like in the wild they require a large amount of space to roam, hunt, and be well. You shouldn't be able to keep a Polar Bear in a tiny habitat, something that corresponds with the real world issues zoos would be dealing with.
Hope this helps
Polar Bears in zoos are a hot topic in general, so when we talked about bringing them to Planet Zoo we wanted to make sure it was in line with the overall message of the game: conservation and animal welfare. Polar Bears are supposed to be challenging to have in a zoo, because just like in the wild they require a large amount of space to roam, hunt, and be well. You shouldn't be able to keep a Polar Bear in a tiny habitat, something that corresponds with the real world issues zoos would be dealing with.
Hope this helps
It wasnt a Problem for me, but at first i was a bit surprised to be honest. Ive taken a look into all the other animals and i think the animal with the biggest space requirements was the african elephant with "just" around 2,500 sqm and just 150sqm of Water. Hippos (which already need a lot of space) are at just 1,000 sqm and 1,000 sqm of water. So this "jump" to 12,000 sqm (or 16.000 in common) is just really, really huge.
12.000 m2?
I understand the conservation idea, but 12.000 m2?
Polar Bears need a huge amount of space to be happy in captivity. I would personally encourage anyone looking at the amount of space required to research Polar Bears in captivity. It's an enlightening read.
It's still a
I guess I'll only use them in sandbox as I can turn off animal welfare.
Last edited:
No offense, but I’d rather the game be player-friendly over being true to reality. It’s not fun dealing with 1 bear needing nearly 6 times the land of an African elephant and 4 times the water of a hippopotamus.
I absolutely get the feeling of wanting to put their conservation in the wild first. But polar bears don't have to hunt in Zoos. The AZA states they need 500m2 of space per bear, which yes I agree is quite small, but if we realistically put a 12 000 m2 minimum to real life Zoos today they'd hardly appear in zoos. And I'm unsure wether thats a good or a bad thing (considering Zoos conservation efforts). It's a really, really big size for a Zoo.
I mean, wouldn't elephants want bigger spaces too then? They roam about 25kms a day in the wild (polar bears do 30km)..
I feel quite conflicted. On one hand I applaud your efforts to focus on conservation. On the other hand this seems a bit extreme and inconsistent in regards to the other habit sizes the larger animals need.
I mean, wouldn't elephants want bigger spaces too then? They roam about 25kms a day in the wild (polar bears do 30km)..
I feel quite conflicted. On one hand I applaud your efforts to focus on conservation. On the other hand this seems a bit extreme and inconsistent in regards to the other habit sizes the larger animals need.
I think its great fun and also trying to figure out how to make them visible to the piublic
It’s completely inconsistent with the rest of the animals... either jack up the requirements for the others or bring this one down.
If you think it’s fun then that’s great! But don’t force others to abide by the absurdity of this.
this zoo offers one of the
This game has to decide if it wants to be a consistent zoo sim or a national park sandbox game. The most modern 'ice land' I know in an IRL zoo (I've been to many all over the world) features ice bears, 3 different pengiun species, walrus and seals on 8,000 sqm in total. The whole investment was € 24m. Prior to that they already had 100 years of experience in keeping these species in the zoo.
If it would be maybe the half of the space, 6.000 and 2.000 water.
Noone wants to keep the animals like prisoners, but this huge requirement takes a lot of freedom (and creativity) out of the game. Everytime you wanna build an polarbear exhibit you know, its not enough to build a big one, it has to be a really, really, really huge one. And then your guests are complaining they cant see the animals (just because theyre somewhere else far away in their exhibit)
Noone wants to keep the animals like prisoners, but this huge requirement takes a lot of freedom (and creativity) out of the game. Everytime you wanna build an polarbear exhibit you know, its not enough to build a big one, it has to be a really, really, really huge one. And then your guests are complaining they cant see the animals (just because theyre somewhere else far away in their exhibit)
Frankly, having them require an order of magnitude more space than basically everything else is absurd. By all means have them require a large amount of space. 4000~ seems nice. That already essentially DOUBLE what anything else in the game needs.
That 12000 is a wrecking ball to my sense of immersion and my suspension of disbelief. Honestly if you wanted to make a statement I’d rather you had left out Polar Bears and made a post about why they shouldn’t be kept in zoos instead.
That 12000 is a wrecking ball to my sense of immersion and my suspension of disbelief. Honestly if you wanted to make a statement I’d rather you had left out Polar Bears and made a post about why they shouldn’t be kept in zoos instead.
It’s actually fairly proportional to AZA standards. IRL it’s 170m2 per elephant, and 500m2 of land space for a polar bear. Not that I necessarily agree with the game giving us minimum requirements thirty times higher than what the AZA reccommends, but at least it’s thirty times higher across the board.
EDIT: not to say I’m supportive of the high polar bear requirements, I think it’s silly especially as a debate in a game which has elephants - which have exactly the same kind of controversy surrounding them.
EDIT: not to say I’m supportive of the high polar bear requirements, I think it’s silly especially as a debate in a game which has elephants - which have exactly the same kind of controversy surrounding them.
I’m going to caveat this with the face I’m getting the info on the (African) Elephant from Planet Zoopedia since I’m away from my computer, but it’s not proportional.
2151/170 = 12.65 (Elephant)
12000/500 = 24 (Polar Bear)
proportional for the Polar Bear would be 6325
Last edited:
For some reason I thought it was 5000 for the elephant. You’re right, I just checked ingame! My mistake.
It's also arguably as cruel and difficult to keep Elephants in captivity. Elephants have been removed from zoos in Canada because the cold created unsafe conditions, along with a lack of ability to keep enough elephants for social health. There are easily as many studies if not more about the ethics of keeping elephants. But there's nothing in the game stopping me from having Elephants in the tundra with only, like, 3 of them, which is absolutely not enough animals for a healthy social group. So what's different about polar bears?
The thing is, I agree, that polar bears (and elephants (and most whales)) should not be kept in captivity. I think it's cruel and does nothing for the wellbeing of the individual animal or the species. I would never have a polar bear in my fictional video game zoo.
But it's weird that instead of making a definitive statement (not adding polar bears, explaining why), it's instead kind of a passive-aggressive mechanic.
The thing is, I agree, that polar bears (and elephants (and most whales)) should not be kept in captivity. I think it's cruel and does nothing for the wellbeing of the individual animal or the species. I would never have a polar bear in my fictional video game zoo.
But it's weird that instead of making a definitive statement (not adding polar bears, explaining why), it's instead kind of a passive-aggressive mechanic.
I haven't had an opportunity to play the game yet, but this seems a bit much. I agree that they should require a fairly extensive amount of space, and I applaud Frontier's commitment to the game's mission...
But this definitely feels like it's too big for 1-2 animals as a minimum standard. Something roughly 45-60% this size or so might feel okay to me, but this feels like it's too much as it currently stands. And thinking about having to place all those coolers...
I'm very much looking forward to designing a polar bear exhibit (or two or three) in Sandbox mode. But I can see this being a huge pain in Franchise mode unless Frontier opts to update it. And I really hope they do.
But this definitely feels like it's too big for 1-2 animals as a minimum standard. Something roughly 45-60% this size or so might feel okay to me, but this feels like it's too much as it currently stands. And thinking about having to place all those coolers...
I'm very much looking forward to designing a polar bear exhibit (or two or three) in Sandbox mode. But I can see this being a huge pain in Franchise mode unless Frontier opts to update it. And I really hope they do.