Polarbears

Skylalaa

S
Fortunanovesia said:
Just have my first polarbears in scenario-mode.

12,000 sqm land and 4,000 sqm water. Now mommy and daddy polarbear got some cute babies. my four polarbears are requiring 16,000sqm land and 5,000 sqm water now.

21,000 sqm...
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What a joke!
Is this a zoo game, or wildlife safari game? Do the devs even know what they are creating?
How is the animal welfare of the polar bears when their space is much smaller? Is it possible to create a reasonable sized ZOO enclosure and still have them reasonably happy?
 

Yessica

Yessica
Cynogale bennettii said:
  • Polar World at Orsa Bjornpark, Sweden: 41,000m2 divided into two enclosures
  • Project Polar at Yorkshire Wildlife Park, UK: 40,428m2 divided into four enclosures
  • Polar bear enclosure at Highland Wildlife Park, UK: 24,281m2 outdoor enclosure
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I'd also like to add here that the first 3 on this list are Wildlife Parks, which are totally different space wise from Zoos.

As mentioned earlier, an enclosure can never really be 'too big', only 'too small'. But Zoos are constantly working with these facts and realistically cannot provide a 12000m2 space for 1 single animal. This doesn't mean they should be put in tiny habitats, obviously. But providing them with MORE space ingame than a herd of African Elephants is quite frankly, absurd.

If you worry about proper conservation, then you might want to take a second look at the breeding/releasing challenges you post every week..and how these goals are met by most of the community..

This is a Zoo simulation, yes we can struggle with what zoos struggle with. And yes it's perfectly acceptable that a polar bear needs a fair amount of space. But this is still a Zoo simulation game. And it needs to fit with the requirements and consistency of the other animals already available.
 

Maky1355

M
May I remind some of you - it's a game... it's supposed to be fun, not as hard as real life, animals put in the game are meant to be used and their exhibits made to look nice. Like anyone here thinks it a viable idea to buy a polar bear or pretty much any wild animal... Come on "it's supposed to be hard, they're not supposed to be kept...", we've heard it all before, yea well it's still nice to see them in a game, put a red warning sign in the zoopedia !should not be kept in real zoos! and let that be the end of it.

When I loaded the game and checked the polar bear (which I was most excited about) and saw it had a 12k + 4k requirements I honestly thought the devs made a typo... I had a nice space planned out for them before I even downloaded the dlc, almost as large as my "safari" habitat, lots of water and very nice to look at too, fit well with the zoo. I check how big it is 6k and only 2k water. I never thought this would be too small for any one species. So yea... I either make a huge ugly habitat that doesn't fit in with my zoo or I just give up on my fav. animal this dlc. I'll opt for reaching out and pleading for the devs to change this.

Edit: Posted this in the suggestions section. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/polar-bear-space-requirements.533371/
 
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Arrakai

A
Space is no worries, just build the habitat like this :p
Polar bear ex 3.jpg


No but seriously, the space req for the polar bears is just crazy -.-
 

Onelegflamingo

Onelegflamingo
I distinctly remember the polar bear exhibit at the Los Angeles zoo, and it was not huge. All animals need more space in the wild to hunt. In the zoo they get fed.

A lot of zoos in the US don't have polar bears, not because they are too hard to keep, but because the Canadian government makes it illegal to transport them.

And regardless of what is real or not real, there is no point in having a polar bear in my virtual zoo with these requirements. We simply won't be able to play with them.
 

Bo Marit

Lead Community Manager
Frontier
Thanks for the feedback on the habitat and welfare requirements for the Polar Bears. We will be amending the requirements in Update 1.1.1 (due this week) to half of their original size. Whilst we strongly believe in the reasons behind the original numbers, we completely understand that some players, in particular our creative builders, would face too many challenges in keeping these amazing animals happy in their zoos. The new numbers will be both more in line with other large animals in Planet Zoo, and in keeping with the overall conservation message of Planet Zoo - whilst also maintaining a gameplay challenge for those who don't want it to feel too easy to run a successful zoo.

In terms of the original numbers, we did a lot of research into Polar Bear habitats – they are majestic animals that require a wide snowy area to roam, and if they have anything less, they tend to display stress behaviours and in general do not cope well with being in zoos. Planet Zoo is at its core about animal welfare, so we felt giving the Polar Bear the high space and water requirements it so desperately needs to thrive, was in keeping with the game’s main message.

We hope that the compromise is more fulfilling to all players, and you and your zoo guests can enjoy seeing these beautiful creatures in your parks.
 

Doldhov

D
Hey, Frontier, while I totally agree with the decision you uphold to inform the players about the problems of keeping animals in Zoos and the challenges to keep them happy, I don't agree with the Polar Bears space requirements.

At the end of the day, It's a game, a fantasy, it's supposed to be fun and I frankly fail to see the fun in having to design so big an enclosure to have polar bears in our parks. Let's not even talk about the fact that it is very much not working well with other mechanics (guest visibility, keeper gates, feeding trays, etc).

If you really wanted to ram home the fact that they are notoriously difficult to keep happy in a zoo you could have played with other mechanics (higher happiness threshold that forces us to design the perfect enclosure, for example) I don't think giving them a space requirement ten times larger than those from all the other animals gathered is the way to go, It's simply getting in the way of our creativity and fun.

I'm not usually one to complain, but in this instance I think it was simply not the right decision. As you've proven times and times again, you listen to your community, understand our griefs and react accordingly when possible. I'm sure you will see the problem and find a solution that will please everyone.

Edit : Damn, Frontier adressed the issue while I was writing this. Thanks, you did see the problem and did find a solution to mitigate it. As I said : you are listening and we should all be gratful !
 
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Dr4gon

Dr4gon
I don't see a problem here. I made bigger habitats than that. Just be creative, make a tunnel to the middle, or a bridge over the habitat. You can figure it out. Boat rides can be fun too.
 

Bo Marit

Lead Community Manager
Frontier
Doldhov said:
Hey, Frontier, while I totally agree with the decision you uphold to inform the players about the problems of keeping animals in Zoos and the challenge to keep them happy, I don't agree with the Polar Bears space requirements.

At the end of the day, It's a game, a fantasy, it's supposed to be fun and I frankly fail to see the fun in having to design so big an enclosure to have polar bears in our parks. Let's not even talk about the fact that it is very much not working well with other mechanics (guest visibility, keeper gates, feeding trays, etc).

If you really wanted to ram home the fact that they are notoriously difficult to keep happy in a zoo you could have played with other mechanics (higher happiness threshold that forces us to design the perfect enclosure, for example) I don't think giving them a space requirement ten times larger than those from all the other animals gathered is the way to go, It's simply getting in the way of our creativity and fun.

I'm not usually one to complain, but in this instance I think it was simply not the right decision. As you've proven times and times again, you listen to your community, understand our griefs and react accordingly when possible. I'm sure you will see the problem and find a solution that will please everyone.
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There's a reply right above yours :)...
 

Fortunanovesia

F
@Bo Marit

Thx again for all your feedback and explanations too. I think everyone understands what you intended with this huge space requirements and most of us are also the opinion that polarbears should need a lot of space. But im glad to hear youve seen the problem between "realism" and bringing it in such a game full of creativity.

By the way: Im the opinion some other animals should require some more space too. I posted a pic of my first arctic-pack scenario zoo. The huge polarbear exhibit is the eyecatcher. But when you compare it with the tiny exhibit for the snowleopards on the left or the grizzlys at the bottom it makes me think some other animals should need some more space too. Especially bears, tigers and some of the other cats.

c955e07982.jpg
 

Doldhov

D
Bo Marit said:
There's a reply right above yours :)...
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Yep, I already edited mine to acknowledge this ;-)
Let me use the occasion to thank you and the rest of the team for your amazing work! I came here to post about this issue but I'm frankly amazed by all the work that went into this game and I am thankful. I just felt that in this instance, the challenge/fun scale was really not well balanced and I tried to be constructive about it.
 

Fortunanovesia

F
Mopmil said:
Honestly I prefer that they need a larger habitat
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I think most of us do. But not THAT large.

After the next update it should be 6k sqm and 2k sqm water for one polarbear. In common its still 8k sqm. The next highest requirements are those of the african elephants. They need nearly 2,5k sqm - in common. So theres still a difference from around 5,5k sqm. Its still a lot, but now its ok i think. But some other animals should need some more space too. It looks a bit weird when youre able to put a grizzly in an exhibit underneath 1k sqm in common but a polarbear needs 16k sqm (8k next week)
 
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