Polarbears

Frontier and Feedback - its a love bond :love: :love: :love: :love:
Honestly, there is no better way to address player feedback in my opinion. And please know that we are all animal lovers here and want to have happy animals. And for me personally, I totally get your intention behind the original numbres. If I had a real zoo, I would not keep Polar bears (same as with whales and orcas). But in my game, I want to enjoy them. I guess you can see this as animal well-fare as well : Having something just as pixels.
 
This is great news, and frankly, I'm impressed with how quickly they are pushing out another update! The fact that they have been so responsive to player feedback (but also communicating--and standing behind their rationale) is really great.

I fully understand where Frontier was coming from with this decision (and am glad they continue to stand behind it!) but I'm also glad we're getting a healthy compromise in terms of gameplay.
 
Thanks for the feedback on the habitat and welfare requirements for the Polar Bears. We will be amending the requirements in Update 1.1.1 (due this week) to half of their original size. Whilst we strongly believe in the reasons behind the original numbers, we completely understand that some players, in particular our creative builders, would face too many challenges in keeping these amazing animals happy in their zoos. The new numbers will be both more in line with other large animals in Planet Zoo, and in keeping with the overall conservation message of Planet Zoo - whilst also maintaining a gameplay challenge for those who don't want it to feel too easy to run a successful zoo.

In terms of the original numbers, we did a lot of research into Polar Bear habitats – they are majestic animals that require a wide snowy area to roam, and if they have anything less, they tend to display stress behaviours and in general do not cope well with being in zoos. Planet Zoo is at its core about animal welfare, so we felt giving the Polar Bear the high space and water requirements it so desperately needs to thrive, was in keeping with the game’s main message.

We hope that the compromise is more fulfilling to all players, and you and your zoo guests can enjoy seeing these beautiful creatures in your parks.

Thank you so much for listening to the community!
I was unsure if I wanted to buy the DLC because of the issues with the Polar Bears, but now I will. Half of the requirements still feels like a lot, but it is definitely better than before.

And I think most players (at least I do) truly understand what you guys mean, the Polar Bear indeed does need a massive space to live happy and we want our animals to be happy. But than again, it's still a game and it would really limit the players a lot. I agree the Polar Bear should be difficult to keep happy, but the space requirements doesn't seem like the right way to do this.

Thanks again for listening to our concerns, keep up the great work guys!
 
I must aquiesce that the size is still just a hair too large (and a size of 3000/1500 would still require large space and reflect real life zoos) but I digress. You truly have considered us as a community with our concerns. This is what makes you Frontier the best Developer and you can tell that to Rare who in my eyes previously held that title!
 
Around half the current size sounds great to me. I like the concept of them needing loads of space for their well-being, but after attempting to build a massive polar bear habitat last night I could clearly see that I was going to have issues with game mechanics, such as guest viewing and keeper tasks.

Not to mention it's out of proportion with other animals in the zoo - in fact, I wouldn't mind seeing the space requirements of other large and active animals, such as elephants, bumped up a bit to match. I often feel like the minimum habitat sizes for many animals are too small, actually - I usually give them at least 2 to 5 times the recommended amount of space, even though the nearsighted guests and organizationally challenged keepers push against the viability of this.

Great message, but I think a symbolically large square footage can communicate it just as well.
 
That's how my finished habitat looks now... should be big enough :'D But I'm not sad, that I can make it a bit smaller after the next update. Most of the place the bears don't even use

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Bigger than the whole rest of the current park :'D With reindeers, dall sheeps, aardvarks and african wilddogs

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The space requirements just makes me not want to have polar bears in my zoo, which makes me less likely to want to buy that DLC.
I haven't bought it yet.
I mean, come on. This is just a game. The space requirements don't have to be that realistic.

Edit After I posted this, they announced they'd be scaling back the space requirements. Yay! It's nice that they listen to their customers.
 
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i think this is ridiculous. this is not at all enjoyable to play, every animal you put in the game needs bigger hapitats then... it's still a game not real life..
 
I'm glad the space requirements will come down but let's face it, it was a bad choice to have it so high to begin with. Polar bears live longer in captivity than in the wild by a large margin so the 'small' zoos must be doing something right. A zoo can never give any animal the space it has in the wild. A tiny meerkat needs well over 1km of space for their natural habitat! I've never seen a zoo give a meerkat such space! Because in reality animals don't actually 'NEED' the space, they just need in the wild to find enough food and shelter. With zoo's it is less about space and more about enrichment and keeping minds active and encouraging new behavior and exercise.

If you want to make it harder to keep polar bears, why didn't you include some special enrichment for them? It wouldn't have been time consuming to basically re-skin the dirt forage box enrichment into a snow/ice forager. (Maybe it melts if the temp is too hot) This is what happens in real life zoos, they bring in big piles of ice/snow into the enclosure (because most zoos don't keep polar bears on ice, but instead dirt and rock) and hide the food around inside the snow to encourage natural behavior. Also piles of snow could have been an enrichment item. The bears play and rub around in the piles of snow which could have had nice animation to go with it. Zoos have 'iceberg floaties' which are just tough plastic toy in the shape of a white iceburg the bears can push around and play with in the water. Zoos bring in live fish enrichment in the water to encourage natural hunting and exercise. You could have created a new 'underwater rock' forager that is placed in water and the polar bears have to dive to reach it. This would have been a nice compromise to make the bears more realistic in that they would dive underwater without 'really' having to code actual diving mechanic. Having this rock forager right by an underwater viewing window and the bears diving in front of it would have been awesome.

If you want to make them harder to keep as well, polar bears actually have a high mortality rate for cubs - both in the wild and captivity. This could have been included in some way, like more susceptible to get sick and die quickly as a cub if not treated effectively. Maybe only a vet with 5 stars could look after a baby polar bear that gets sick.
If you want to go into realism regarding good zoos/bad zoos, you could incorporate a stereotypy mechanic into the actual game. If the animal is not receiving all it's needs particularly with space and enrichment, the animals could develop stereotypical behavior (pacing back and forth, head swaying), which give guests negative emotions.
 
I think perhaps another way this 'hard to keep' could be simulated is to make them get bored of enrichment sooner than other animals and act out on it (breaking barriers and wellness going down resulting in protestors). I got my hands on a manifest from a Dutch zoo (Blijdorp) where they were discussing the new polar bear habitat. In there it said their keepers had to spend AT LEAST one hour every day to enrich the animals because they get bored very quickly. They do this with ice-encased food/hiding food in general and other activities for them.

I also like the idea mentioned above about the mortality rates of cubs (so they get sick often) and only a 5 star vet being able to take care of them.

In regards (again) to the size of the habitat; it would be nice if we could add multiple habitat gates so animals actually use the space provided and keepers can keep up with cleaning it. I often see my animals (like hippos) hang out more to the front where the feeders are instead of using the space.
 
Thank you so much for listening to the community!
I was unsure if I wanted to buy the DLC because of the issues with the Polar Bears, but now I will. Half of the requirements still feels like a lot, but it is definitely better than before.

And I think most players (at least I do) truly understand what you guys mean, the Polar Bear indeed does need a massive space to live happy and we want our animals to be happy. But than again, it's still a game and it would really limit the players a lot. I agree the Polar Bear should be difficult to keep happy, but the space requirements doesn't seem like the right way to do this.

Thanks again for listening to our concerns, keep up the great work guys!
That's what I mean. It would limit the players a lot to have habitats in such a big size. And if the polar bear will get such a big sized habitat, what's about the Grizzly, tiger, black bear and the gepards for example? Do they need a similar habbit size? In the end the visitors will be unsatisfied, the zoo keepers are not able to clean those big habitats and in the end planet zoo will be unplayable. And by the way: I also think it's still a game.
 
6k is still much but not that much anymore.

Most exhibits i build are already around 2-3k sqm for my animals. So get creative. 6k (and 2k) is still a challenge, but not unbearable anymore.

Besides that im also the opinion some animals need higher space requirements. Keeping a grizzly in a 750sqm exhibit.. it should be at least 1.5k. Better 2k or even more. Same for tigers for example.
 
But its still a game...I want to play and not be punished keeping a polar bear :/
3k sqm would be enough and still be huge...
I understand the message but I allready knew that without playing planet zoo....

Edit: now after i have seen what they have done with the polar bears i can expect that there is no "Marine DLC" coming where we can have Orcas
 
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Is there a possibility to cool the Water in a Enclosure. I've just noticed that the Temperature is too high for my Polar Bears if they are swimming. Even though there is a ice floe with a Cooler attached to it and several Coolers on the Coastline
Edit: just found out that the Water gets cooled but it can be only seen in the Heatmap if you go under the Surface
 
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I am in the minority of 1 I think. I would like to see all animals areas increased rather than the Polar Bears decreased. I know Zoo's are not like this but I always overbuild all my enclosures size wise as I want the animals to have as much space as possible. I think the maps are big enough to do this.

It is changing now and nothing stopping me from overbuilding still so I guess everyone is happy with this change.
 
While I was making a habitat for the polar bears (with the new requirements) I made it truly huge. I look at it and think "hm... maybe we didn't need the reduction that much" I check how big it actually is - 7k +2.5k water xD Yea... we really needed it
 
I mean, i would be ok with 7-8 000 square meters habitat. but 10 000 habitat entirely destroyed my plans for arctic complex. Now there's only place for polar bears/entire america bond together.
 
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I mean, i would be ok with 7-8 000 square meters habitat. but 10 000 habitat entirely destroyed my plans for arctic complex. Now there's only place for polar bears/entire america bond together.
They already mentioned that they are making the Size Requirement only the half Size in the next Update. This means it will be only 6000 m²
 
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