Poll - UGC / Custom Content

[Angelis1]

You guys are forgetting something. We modders don't need permission or support. Sure it would be handy, but back in the days modders went to the level of bytes and bits to mod stuff. I actually miss those days, digging in libraries and reverse engineering fileformats. So even if they never add support, I might still mod the ❤︎❤︎❤︎❤︎ out of this game.

Of course, but the whole idea is to avoid :

- Unstable hacked games
- Non-native system
- Multiples download websites
- Bugs during the import
- Crashes by lack of optimization
- Corrupted files
- Virusses during the download
- Problems between versions
- Etc...

But yes, you are right, we don't need permission or support ... But it's better :

- For us because it is less work to do, and we can focus on the content and not the tools
- For Frontier because they can take a look at the UGC and mods produced and it avoids pirated versions (not all, but a large number)
- ... and many other reasons (on both sides by the way)

People can already do some pretty ridiculous stuff with the limited objects the current alpha has. Adding more props and assets combined with the blueprint and online sharing feature is going to be awesome. Thus, I have absolutely no problem with modding support not being here at launch.

Provided that.

1. Frontier confirm that extensive modding support will be a big focus for an update after launch.
2. Frontier build the tools needed (importer, documentation, UGC planning bible, API/SDK etc) for people to take full advantage of the feature.
3. Frontier either use the in-built online infrastructure for hosting and maintaining modded content, or lets users download and install from other sources without DRM gating.
4. Frontier decide to do this as passionately and seriously as we have seen with other aspects in the game so far.

Contrary to popular belief, a PC game in 2016 can both have extensive modding support AND a good post-release monetization record. Community goodwill and developer support after launch pays dividends, fast (there are a lot of examples for that in the industry). Also, modders can and will do what they can to make a game better, but formal support from the developer is what is going to make the game spectacular.

There is a lot to learn for making UGC and modding a game, from proper UV maps to making LODs and optimizing your models/textures/maps/animations so that the game performance does not suffer, and from having an easy to use and powerful API to being able to understand why something you made does not work properly, and how you can reach the amount of detail and quality the official content has.

A lot of developers seem lately to merely slap-on a steam workshop skeleton, make a mod file directory and let the game implode from people that do not or cannot do what is needed to keep their mods both compatible and optimized.

So, Frontier, your help and your support is needed. Trust me when I say this, If you do the community good, the community will return the favor in hard cash, name/brand recognition, free marketing and advertising. In tenfold.

So, we need your unequivocal and undivided commitment that you will do this part of the game justice, and will do it properly. You don't need to do it as timely as some have mentioned. We need to know though that you will do it. And we need to know now.

just my 2c..<3

Agree [yesnod][up]

But we already know :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7dNTG68Wqw

Sorry for the quality of the video, I did with what I had on hand
Transcript by Kerrash (thank you)

------------------------
TRANSCRIPT :
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Angelis :
What can you tell us about custom content ?

Jonny Watts :
So, as we've already said; on the Q&A that John Laws did. Is that, we are interested in doing UGC the way you've said it; but it's not for release.

What I can tell you is that the game has been designed from the ground up to be ready for when we're ready to do that; or the way we load things into the game has all been designed to do that.
But for release, we really wanted to concentrate on doing what we call 'UGC in the box'
Which is slightly different. It's to give people ultimate creativity to a very fine level of granularity in the game.

So it's two stages. So to start off with, we want to give you the tools and all the things that our imagineers have made; which I think are incredibly beautiful.
And then once people have got tired of that, then we will start allowing people to model it in Maya or Max or whatever 3D Package they want.

But that's just a little bit later on after release.

Angelis :
When custom content is available, will you consider a central platform to share it ?

Jonny Watts :
Right from the, you know, from release. Even when you are doing your own blu-, we call them blue prints, so you've built your own coasters.

It's all going to accessed via the planet that you see on the front end of the game; and that's going to be how you share with your friends and various other people.

When we are going to do UGC, we'll use exactly the same sort of framework for that. So it will all be stored on our servers, it'll all be very, make sure it's all maintained, it won't be corrupted files, you'll be able to share it and it'll be done properly.

That's why it's going to take a bit of time to do, but we going to, as I say, first off, what you build in the game, you can share.
And thats a good step, it's all about, we are going to be supporting this game for a long long time, I hope so anyway; because I love coaster games.

[...]

 

[MacD11]

Alright so, In my opinion, I feel as if mods should be something the developers should very seriously consider for the future of this game. A good mod with a proper team behind it can be just as solid as an official product, and could only increase the quality of an already outstanding product. And while whenever I look at videos of the game itself and end up being in awe at what I see, I do believe that a proper system for loading custom content such as props, peeps, rides, and all that jazz into the game should really be provided, as well as (of course) proper tools and documentation.

I dont think it's something that is really necessary for launch, but I do believe soon after it, maybe after the release of an expansion or two if frontier do those (I certainly hope so.), it would really be for the best. The ability for people to make custom rides, themes, mascots, props, peeps and everything would really help boost the longevity of the game in terms of content, and a system for scripting in new events for such things would potentially push that even further as well, possibly even leading into fan made expansion packs for the game.

Ultimately I believe taking the approach of making an extensive development kit for modding after the release of the final base game, alongside expansion packs that also contain mod-compatible content, would be the best approach to take things in. I cant say I would be completely turned away by the lack of modding in this game though, since I played RCT3 without mods for years. But I definitely DO think that it's something that, seriously, should be done after release. Preferably sooner rather than later. [happy]

 

[Coastin' Dave]

Alright so, In my opinion, I feel as if mods should be something the developers should very seriously consider for the future of this game. A good mod with a proper team behind it can be just as solid as an official product, and could only increase the quality of an already outstanding product. And while whenever I look at videos of the game itself and end up being in awe at what I see, I do believe that a proper system for loading custom content such as props, peeps, rides, and all that jazz into the game should really be provided, as well as (of course) proper tools and documentation.

I dont think it's something that is really necessary for launch, but I do believe soon after it, maybe after the release of an expansion or two if frontier do those (I certainly hope so.), it would really be for the best. The ability for people to make custom rides, themes, mascots, props, peeps and everything would really help boost the longevity of the game in terms of content, and a system for scripting in new events for such things would potentially push that even further as well, possibly even leading into fan made expansion packs for the game.

Ultimately I believe taking the approach of making an extensive development kit for modding after the release of the final base game, alongside expansion packs that also contain mod-compatible content, would be the best approach to take things in. I cant say I would be completely turned away by the lack of modding in this game though, since I played RCT3 without mods for years. But I definitely DO think that it's something that, seriously, should be done after release. Preferably sooner rather than later. [happy]

Perhaps UCG is not a feature needed for launch, but I agree that it needs to be added for the sake of community appeal and the longevity of the game.
I suggest that they make content under theses categories:
CT - custom track: for people who model track profiles, tires, brakes, etc
CTR - coaster trains and coaster cars and somehow peep seating positions and weight values will need to be editable (RCT3 even had what was called "hill variation" which was basically train weight settings)
CFR - flat rides and for more realism - they may need several load platforms and unload platforms for things like Tower of Terror.
CSO - scenery - animated and static (as well as ride/queue event).
Path items (benches and trash bins)
And shops/facilities...
Did I forget any?

The more players can customize the better. I know UCG brings a lot of problems to deal with for development, but it's very much needed eventually...

 

[alarm]

Best of both worlds

I think there is a way to keep the best of both worlds -- user generated custom content and Frontier could also have DLC.

If you want to create custom content you need to upload it to Frontier's server. This would keep all the additional/custom content in a central location (possibly even accessible inside the game). Allow creators to charge a small amount for the assets or asset packs they create. This way Frontier could make some money by taking a portion of the sale and creators could create custom content. Allowing creators to make some money will help the quality of the content found on this "store." I figure anything that is uploaded to their server also has to meet some sort of guidelines for quality control.

Frontier could still release their own content and charge for it. These transactions should allow them to host all this stuff and continue making money while also allowing custom content in the game. They should also restrict custom content unless it is done through their system. As mentioned earlier they could moderate what goes up -- making sure to maintain some level of quality.

I would hope that if the system was popular they could even let people release stuff for free -- assuming it meets the guidelines -- because they are making enough revenue from the paid content.

TL;DR -- Valve model with Team Fortress 2 (TF2) [I think?]

They know the importance, but I'm guessing they have a decision to make as to whether they do what's best for us and make UGC possible, or what is best for their bank balance and leave it closed, allowing them to potentially generate revenue selling their own DLC later on. And actually, as I run a business myself, I have to say that either is a valid choice. Let's face facts, Frontier have to make money. And with ED, they made quite a lot (according to their financial statements to their investors). And as a result, they have a large team of very talented people which is why their game is wiping the floor with the fetid carcass of RCTW. So making money, and running a business to maximize profit is a good thing for their customers as well as for themselves. But of course, UGC is also a good thing for their customers.

The big question that I hope the poll will help to answer, is what is best overall. There are many factors here. The inclusion of UGC could help drive sales and generate more revenue than DLC could later on. Alternatively Frontier may calculate that restricting scenery to only official DLC woul maintain the quality, and the revenue generated could simply be used to make more DLC to keep the game alive for as long as possible.

The reality is without seeing all the facts and figures we can't say what is best or most sensible for Frontier to do. We can only comment on what we want personally. That is why a poll is useful, it ensures that whatever decision they do make, is at least based on the most accurate facts and figures. Because the one thing they can only guess at right now, is how much UGC will affect people's decision to buy the game. That's a pretty important part of the puzzle.

 

[Branes51]

I haven't read all 15 pages of this thread so if I'm repeating something said, forgive me. Frontier could look at the Sims' system for making and distributing custom content. They allow people to make their own items, change code, create cheats, even make their own animations, at least Sims 3 did eventually, yet they release dlc or stuff packs as they are called quite often and people buy them because they contain new meshes and new game mechanics. And they charge $19.99 a pop for it and people buy it. Yet, the Sims mod community is immense. The Sims Resource site has literally thousands of items, clothing, characters, houses, and everything else in the game. And that is just one site. There are many, many more. AND people actually pay to download the items from these sites even though EA has their own system for distributing custom content in addition to all the private websites.

One small example: there are no placeable fences in PC yet. So if they released an update with say, 4 fence types: chain link, wooden, electric, and wrought iron and made them editable, you would see a lot of different fence models showing up on the Workshop almost immediately which would also prompt making different kinds of planters and enclosed scenes.

There are some very talented gamers who know sophisticated programming. What I'd like to see is for Frontier to make their animation system available to allow people to create their own animatronics. Say, for example, Frontier releases an xpac with dinosaur animatronics. which I'm sure they will probably do in an "RCT3 Wild" type of expac, because people want to make a Jurassic Park scenario, I'm sure. It would be impossible to make every kind of dinosaur in every position, but if people had the code to animate, they could create their own 3d models of any kind of dinosaur or any animal really, and animate it themselves. That is the kind of thing that would make this game practically timeless, at least until the graphics became so dated a new one was required.

This is off-topic sort of, but the one feature missing in this game is the ability to paint textures onto objects. The freeform geometric shapes are great but they can only be painted one color. We need the ability to assign and create textures, not only for those objects, but to paths as well. Again, the Sims' system of doing this is superb. You place a blank wall, and then paint the texture you want on it. For one thing, this would greatly reduce the number of building items needed. You wouldn't have to have the same group of shapes for every possible texture. One set of building shapes with assignable textures would be all that is needed. This would allow us to "decorate" the inside of buildings and halls as well as the outside. And if you are reading this devs, please, please bring back the ability to assign images to billboards. That is a feature that is really missing. Most of us still have a huge folder of RCT billboard graphics which we'd love to be able to use.

Another great feature of the Sims is that you can save an entire plot of land with everything on it, trees, rocks, houses, scenery AND terrain modifications, and upload it to the community. I actually thought that what blueprints would be, but you can only save the buildings and scenery, not the terrain or even queues. I don't expect to see the ability to save terrain changes, but I think being able to save queues would be a great addition to blueprints for coaster and ride stations, because adding them to blueprints is a pain. To do this, however, I think the devs would have to make paths and queues different objects, which right now, I don't think they are judging from their behavior.

 

[funny_speed_spin]

This thread is real hardcore, interesting and teaching at the same time. Interesting idea to make money out of the UGC assets.
On the other hand, i am not a person who thinks, that it is the "right" way. I also don´t think that well made UGC content will Frontier steal one cent. Some RCT3 UGC artists would be very rich if this idea would work great in this community. If you want to donate a asset you could also do it by support the artist per a donation but the content is still free.
A quality check would a) cost a lot because you need somebody who decide if it´s good enough and b) .. i still think that somone who is having money can donate and someone who is not richt should be able to use the content also free!

We´ll see.. [heart]

 

[semanticpoetry]

I wouldn't be averse to a mixed approach, myself. I'd happily pay for a large expansion (say, water parks or licensed content a la previous RCTs), and have UGC for things like CSOs, CTRs and CFRs. As to whether it's all delivered through the various Steam mechanisms (the store and Workshop) or a future patch adds in a storefront is, for me, the bigger conundrum. Steam's nice and easy, and the integration works really well, but I imagine Frontier will be eyeing up 2-3 years down the road, when interest has dropped and it's only the core crowd playing. Something that collects all of the UGC in one place off of Steam might be more desirable for them long term. Who knows, maybe they could fund their own server with Chief Beef merch?