Power distributor units

[Dirtbird]

I just noticed this - the power distributor capacitors are shown in the outfitting screen as having a capacity in MW. The recharge rates are shown MJ/S.
By definition, 1W is 1J/S and the energy storage in the distributor should be measured in J, or MJ with recharge in MJ/S or MW. The capacity should not be in MW as it's an energy store, and MW is units of power, or energy per time.

Now, this is going to bug me.

 

[Hellakitty]

As long as I can keep boosting, me happy.

That's as far as I go with my analysis of power distributors.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

I just noticed this - the power distributor capacitors are shown in the outfitting screen as having a capacity in MW. The recharge rates are shown MJ/S.
By definition, 1W is 1J/S and the energy storage in the distributor should be measured in J, or MJ with recharge in MJ/S or MW. The capacity should not be in MW as it's an energy store, and MW is units of power, or energy per time.

Now, this is going to bug me.

I recommend you don't compare its recharge rates with its power consumption, then. That'll bug you even more.

 

[Kamiyoda]

I recommend you don't compare its recharge rates with its power consumption, then. That'll bug you even more.

STOOOOPPP!!!

 

[Dirtbird]

I always looked at the power consumption of the distributor as being the amount of power it uses to operate, not as the amount of power it draws from the main system to charge its dependants. I can live with that one

 

[Morbad]

I just noticed this - the power distributor capacitors are shown in the outfitting screen as having a capacity in MW. The recharge rates are shown MJ/S.
By definition, 1W is 1J/S and the energy storage in the distributor should be measured in J, or MJ with recharge in MJ/S or MW. The capacity should not be in MW as it's an energy store, and MW is units of power, or energy per time.

Now, this is going to bug me.

Yep, it's backwards, been pointed out before.

Might be time for another bug report, but I think they have enough of those to be busy for a while.

I always looked at the power consumption of the distributor as being the amount of power it uses to operate, not as the amount of power it draws from the main system to charge its dependants. I can live with that one

Same, but you can still pair a distributor with higher charge rates than the output of the ship's PP, if you try.

I suppose this could be explained by the distributor being the cooling capacity of the various coolant loops, and not a power supply.

 

[Speedcuffs]

Deletes spreadsheets.
Flys spaceship.
Shoots stuff.[up]

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Same, but you can still pair a distributor with higher charge rates than the output of the ship's PP, if you try.

I suppose this could be explained by the distributor being the cooling capacity of the various coolant loops, and not a power supply.

The pulse lasers are worse, though. A standard small pulse laser does 7.9MJ/s damage, but only draws 1.2 MW from the distributor and 0.39 MW from the power plant.

 

[Ceekay]

Deletes spreadsheets.
Flys spaceship.
Shoots stuff.[up]

Quite right essentially less talk more shoot!

I always considered the weapon power consumption as running the weapon system i.e. tracking, cooling, beam focus, pulse forming etc, whereas the weapon capacitor provides the energy for the beam/pulse/burst fire from the gun.

 

[Sterling MH]

I just noticed this - the power distributor capacitors are shown in the outfitting screen as having a capacity in MW. The recharge rates are shown MJ/S.
By definition, 1W is 1J/S and the energy storage in the distributor should be measured in J, or MJ with recharge in MJ/S or MW. The capacity should not be in MW as it's an energy store, and MW is units of power, or energy per time.

Now, this is going to bug me.

Actually if you're running DC its 1W=1J/s. But if you're running AC then you don't use Watts like that, you use VoltAmperes. Same with capacity. Additionally if its not a resistive load, Watts are not Joules per second, since dissipation depends on amperes or volts so watts would be a function of one of those, making "watts" or even "watt hours" a confusing value.

Real life electrical systems are more complicated than junior school physics makes out.

 

[Morbad]

The pulse lasers are worse, though. A standard small pulse laser does 7.9MJ/s damage, but only draws 1.2 MW from the distributor and 0.39 MW from the power plant.

Yeah, even if the distributor draw can be explained away by saying it simply needs to spend 1.2MJ to remove the heat energy of firing, it's much harder to reconcile the missing energy between the sustained damage and the static power consumption.

Several aspects of the game seem to defy conservation of mass and/or energy.

I saw all the masses of the SLFs back when they were shown in the livery, and a Taipan is ~28 tons. I have a 60 ton hangar module than can print thirty of them...

Real life electrical systems are more complicated than junior school physics makes out.

A Watt is a unit of power that doesn't depend on the existence of electricity to have meaning.

We don't even know if our ships use electricity! They could be some silly steampunk bio-luminescent fiber optic nonsense.

 

[Sterling MH]

"A Watt is a unit of power that doesn't depend on the existence of electricity to have meaning."
And that's why you use VA for non-DC applications. Ask an electrical engineer.

Oh, and irrelevant, we don't know it doesn't use electricity and there's nothing saying that electricity isn't being used. Magic spells don't cut it. Nor does burning whale fat. But I get it: you NEED to have a fight. Keep punching straw men, then.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

That's true, even bicycle power meters use watts.

 

[Morbad]

And that's why you use VA for non-DC applications. Ask an electrical engineer.

You'd sound pretty silly quantifying the output of a waterwheel or lawn mower in terms of VA.

Ask an electrical engineer, or anyone who knows what a Watt is.

But I get it: you NEED to have a fight. Keep punching straw men, then.

Electricity is your strawman, not mine.

Watts are simply a unit of power, a joule per second, as Dirtbird originally stated. Neither the source, nor the form, of that power is relevant. I can measure the power output of literally anything in terms of watts and be correct.

Volt-amperes are far more specialized.

That's true, even bicycle power meters use watts.

Even internal combustion engines, turbines that will never be connected to a generator, horses, stars, forest fires, whatever, can and often do have their power output quantified in watts.

 

[Sterling MH]

"You'd sound pretty silly quantifying the output of a waterwheel or lawn mower in terms of VA."
Good job that only happened in your imagination, then. Where I guess you need people to look silly. You'd look VERY silly telling an electrical engineer that volt-amps aren't a thing.

 

[snadge]

"You'd sound pretty silly quantifying the output of a waterwheel or lawn mower in terms of VA."
Good job that only happened in your imagination, then. Where I guess you need people to look silly. You'd look VERY silly telling an electrical engineer that volt-amps aren't a thing.

Good thing Electrical engineers have nothing to do with mechanical systems then, you been hitting the Xmas hooch early? Just noticed you have picked several undefendable hills to die on concerning your contributions to the boards today.

 

[Rojo Habe]

Actually if you're running DC its 1W=1J/s. But if you're running AC then you don't use Watts like that, you use VoltAmperes. Same with capacity. Additionally if its not a resistive load, Watts are not Joules per second, since dissipation depends on amperes or volts so watts would be a function of one of those, making "watts" or even "watt hours" a confusing value.

Volt-amperes are essentially a fudge in order to simplify the calculation. It is practically impossible to measure the true power in an AC circuit at any given instant so an average value is required. Apparent power, measured in VA, is the product of rms voltage and rms current. Rms is required as the average value of a sine wave is zero, which would result in a zero average power calculation. Google "root mean square" for more on this.

So, we're in agreement on your first statement, although I've often seen power expressed as Wrms, especially in audio applications. Also, electric heaters are often expressed in kilowatts, presumably because most comsumers relate to it better than kVA.

Your second statement, however, is nonsense, I'm afraid. Watts are always joules per second: that's how a unit of power is defined. Everything after the word "dissipation" makes no sense at all.

Real life electrical systems are more complicated than junior school physics makes out.

You'll get no argument from me there! don't even get me started on impedance (no, really, don't).

It's already been pointed out in this thread that we don't know what kind of technology is used in thirty-fourth century spacecraft, but let's just assume electricity still exists for a minute (and why wouldn't it?). Apart from the fact that there's nothing in ED Lore (that I know of) to suggest whether they run on AC or DC, the power distributor is basically a big ol' capacitor, storing up charge which is then used until depleted, then we have to wait for it to charge up again.

I know what you're going to say: capacitors can be used in AC. Yes, they can, for smoothing and filtering. This one stores energy. That'd be more akin to DC, wouldn't it?


TL;DR: you're not the only one who can talk rubbish; I can go on longer though

 

[Dirtbird]

Actually if you're running DC its 1W=1J/s. But if you're running AC then you don't use Watts like that, you use VoltAmperes. Same with capacity. Additionally if its not a resistive load, Watts are not Joules per second, since dissipation depends on amperes or volts so watts would be a function of one of those, making "watts" or even "watt hours" a confusing value.

Real life electrical systems are more complicated than junior school physics makes out.

I have a pretty strong electrical engineering background and well, yeah, everyone else has covered this very well. Cheers.

 

[Xious]

but my distributor goes to 11...

 

[Morbad]

You'd look VERY silly telling an electrical engineer that volt-amps aren't a thing.

No one said the VA unit doesn't have it's context, just that it's not relevant to this discussion.

Watts as joules per second is, perforce, correct. Presuming that VA is of relevance to our far future science fantasy power distributors is quite an uncertain thing and even if appropriate, would do nothing to diminish the accuracy of the statement you originally took issue with.

but my distributor goes to 11...

That's one more pip than you get with two extra CMDR crew members.

Edit: 6+2=10...major counting fail. Guess I needed that 10 hour Christmas nap I just woke from.