Power Play 2.0 - Minimum Expectations?

[Darrack]

But, why? Powerplay is inherently a multiplayer effort, you're working with others to support or attack powers to have an effect beyond just yourself. This made more sense when consoles were around since you had to pay for online, but that problem is no longer around.

If some want to just play for their own progression, credits, modules, whatever, what's the problem with allowing those aspects in Solo? And for those who want to affect others, they can play with others.

Because many like me and my friends, love doing PP when we are in the bubble, we have no intention of doing PvP in Elite.
PvP in Elite is not popular, at the moment the amount of folks doing PP is minimal (especially for a small faction), we need to attract folks not drive them away regardless of what PP should be.

O7

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

But, why? Powerplay is inherently a multiplayer effort, you're working with others to support or attack powers to have an effect beyond just yourself. This made more sense when consoles were around since you had to pay for online, but that problem is no longer around.

If some want to just play for their own progression, credits, modules, whatever, what's the problem with allowing those aspects in Solo? And for those who want to affect others, they can play with others.

It makes sense for a PvP oriented feature. It doesn't make sense for the BGS, which isn't a PvP oriented feature. The old problem of ED - it doesn't know what it really is. It only knows what it wants to be, but that is impossible to achieve.

 

[Rubbernuke]

But, why? Powerplay is inherently a multiplayer effort, you're working with others to support or attack powers to have an effect beyond just yourself. This made more sense when consoles were around since you had to pay for online, but that problem is no longer around.

If some want to just play for their own progression, credits, modules, whatever, what's the problem with allowing those aspects in Solo? And for those who want to affect others, they can play with others.

I think for most people it comes down to being challenged and engaged. Currently NPCs are applied in a way that is inconsistent and wildly underpowered given they hark from 2015. If...if missions, NPCs and situations were varied, had a much higher difficulty ceiling (thus requiring more skill / guile) and that wing misisons really did require co-op a great many people who want PvP would be happier because you'd be pushed harder.

Whats needed (and possible) is that lone milk runs are weakly rewarded, while rock hard missions that need a wing give most influence- but there is enough logical variety (as in wars in border systems).

It makes sense for a PvP oriented feature. It doesn't make sense for the BGS, which isn't a PvP oriented feature. The old problem of ED - it doesn't know what it really is. It only knows what it wants to be, but that is impossible to achieve.

It really depends on what FD do- you can't transpose V1 onto the BGS and that you really need a way to balance out effort / opposition / reward as broadly as possible.

 

[Cosmo]

Player guilds should gain influence with territory control and some management (stations, settlements). The latter are not minimum expectations, but it's a worthy reward. For example if a guild controls a system then NPC ships will patrol the system to check incoming ships (security scan) and defend it from hostile takeovers.

 

[Darrack]

It makes sense for a PvP oriented feature.

It may well do, however i doubt Fdev will spend any time at all developing that feature which would imo be used by only a minority.

O7

 

[Rebel Yell]

It may well do, however i doubt Fdev will spend any time at all developing that feature which would imo be used by only a minority.

Just quoting this last message (but have read all the above), besides you know what's my stance toward open play & ppwerplay, I do still believe that PP must keep its niche in the non-open game modes. That niche wouldn't cause any change in the big picture as far as the linked activities are somehow oriented to maintenance/managament tasks or working for players' interests etc... whilst it should be definitively more (< not exclusively) oriented toward PvP for those situations where 2 (or more) powers come to a direct confrontation or when a power is taking over new territories.

 

[Darkfyre99]

My expectations?

Frontier will design something deep and engaging... and then will walk it back to something shallow and grindy to appeal to the Veruca Salts of the community.

Of course, I also expected Frontier to never revisit Powerplay, so here's to hope!

 

[Darrack]

Just quoting this last message (but have read all the above), besides you know what's my stance toward open play & ppwerplay, I do still believe that PP must keep its niche in the non-open game modes. That niche wouldn't cause any change in the big picture as far as the linked activities are somehow oriented to maintenance/managament tasks or working for players' interests etc... whilst it should be definitively more (< not exclusively) oriented toward PvP for those situations where 2 (or more) powers come to a direct confrontation or when a power is taking over new territories.

Agree with what you are saying but i don't agree that any mode should have an advantage over another as far as influence goes, otherwise again folks wont bother.

O7

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Thus, what happens to small powers with fewer people? Less people means less possible influence generated and can't be offset via heroic effort....

Keeping difficulty-by-distance in some form is I expect going to be necessary to avoid a simple "the largest coalition inevitably wins" outcome.

How - if at all - they overcome player's general tendency to do boring things like "not overstretch your means" / "don't fight too many wars in parallel" / etc. is going to be an interesting question. That's one of the key things to determine for me whether it stays interesting (as a participant or spectator) beyond the initial phase.

 

[Rat Catcher]

whilst it should be definitively more (< not exclusively) oriented toward PvP for those situations where 2 (or more) powers come to a direct confrontation or when a power is taking over new territories.

I agree, but...

...unless PvP ex-players come flocking back, or there is a massive influx of new, PvP inclined, players - these wars would be fought with (relatively) few players, all relying on instancing bringing them together, include time zones and those poor souls who still have to work for a living, and the number of players in any given engagement may be minimal.

I hope a bone is thrown for those who anticipate glorious PvP encounters in PP2.0, but would it be enough?

 

[Darrack]

I agree, but...

...unless PvP ex-players come flocking back, or there is a massive influx of new, PvP inclined, players - these wars would be fought with (relatively) few players, all relying on instancing bringing them together, include time zones and those poor souls who still have to work for a living, and the number of players in any given engagement may be minimal.

I hope a bone is thrown for those who anticipate glorious PvP encounters in PP2.0, but would it be enough?

Personally i think this should be something to look at further down the line.
Fdev should be doing everything possible to make it attractive to the majority of players first in order to boost participation, once that's done maybe we can then look at PvP which to many is just not what we came to Elite for.

O7

 

[Nadreck]

Perhaps Frontier will finally do something about the built-in incentive for Hudson and Aisling to act as traitors to the Federation and Empire respectively, by supporting non-Federation and non-Imperial government types.

 

[Rat Catcher]

Fdev should be doing everything possible to make it attractive to the majority of players first in order to boost participation,

Brutally....
Be honest, is the majority of the playerbase interested in PP beyond gathering modules after 4 weeks wait then shipping 750 merits?
A PP rework would have to be very engaging indeed to appeal to the majority - and my limited knowledge of our players suggests that trade and exploration scratches many players itch - I hope I'm wrong... (but know that no matter how they dressed it up, being a PP supporter isn't for me, unless somehow an Anarchy power was created... (which by its very nature would be an impossibility!))

 

[marx]

And for those who want to affect others, they can play with others.

The problem is, giving players control over in-game assets quickly leads to groups trying to restrict access for others. There have been many examples of this over the years in Elite, and I'm not talking about just PowerPlay. (Man, even the Salomé event had a large group of players trying to order everyone else around, and there wasn't even anything in-game to fight over.)
Even the current link between PP and BGS has led to plenty of conflicts and toxicity. Which is to be expected, because we are talking about a niche feature that features groups competing(!) against each other. For those who want to affect others, there will tend to be groups that want others to playing according to their orders. (Add to this that PowerPlay is already about a handful of people ordering others in their power on what to do anyway, then there's 5C and all.) So, if they want to attract significantly more players to PP 2.0, then that's something to consider too. (If, mind: the design goal might be to focus on increasing player retention instead. After all, plenty of people have already said that the majority who join powers tend to do so for the exclusive gear.)

Frontier will design something deep and engaging... and then will walk it back to something shallow and grindy to appeal to the Veruca Salts of the community.

By the way, what do you mean about these "Veruca Salts" that you keep repeating, what personal traits? Genuine question, because from what I can tell, she's a fictional character, but your interpretation of her characteristics might differ from mine, or anyone else's. There's an easy source of misunderstanding there then.

 

[Darrack]

Be honest, is the majority of the playerbase interested in PP beyond gathering modules after 4 weeks wait then shipping 750 merits?

This is why it needs to be clever, if it was integrated more into general gameplay we could increase interest.
Lets say a CG could support a current system battle, if you side with the Princess you get a free shield, side with Delaine free burgers for a week
Either way trading, hauling and combat (without pvp) can then influence PP as part of the BGS especially if missions also had a side effect of influencing PP.
I just think if everything wasn't separated it would work better.

i don't know im just throwing stuff out there.

O7

 

[Rat Catcher]

By the way, what do you mean about these "Veruca Salts" that you keep repeating, what personal traits?

I don't think that actually using the phrase "Entitled & spoiled brats" when describing other forum members would be acceptable - along with a handful or so of other colourful phrases that spring into my mind at times that are certainly derogatory.

Instead, a fictional character, portrayed beautifully in 2 movies of that chocolate factory, should produce a 'mind picture' that serves well.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Keeping difficulty-by-distance in some form is I expect going to be necessary to avoid a simple "the largest coalition inevitably wins" outcome.

How - if at all - they overcome player's general tendency to do boring things like "not overstretch your means" / "don't fight too many wars in parallel" / etc. is going to be an interesting question. That's one of the key things to determine for me whether it stays interesting (as a participant or spectator) beyond the initial phase.

That funnels into risk v reward and the general game loop- something that I feel is the missing piece with faction expansion (as in, why expand crazily beyond sheer numbers?).

Done right and acting as a 'cherry on top' modifier to a system would be fantastic, properly pairing (and bringing) an ethos from a leader to augment a gov type.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

My expectations?

Frontier will design something deep and engaging... and then will walk it back to something shallow and grindy to appeal to the Veruca Salts of the community.

...

Pshh, leave me lying here! I just don't wanna go.

 

[marx]

I don't think that actually using the phrase "Entitled & spoiled brats" when describing other forum members would be acceptable - along with a handful or so of other colourful phrases that spring into my mind at times that are certainly derogatory.

Hm, skirting censorship by using an obscure fictional character? Yeah, I could see that.

Instead, a fictional character, portrayed beautifully in 2 movies of that chocolate factory, should produce a 'mind picture' that serves well.

Except for those who haven't seen those movies (I for one haven't), nor read the books - they would have little to no ideas about what that actually means. Even for those who have, their interpretations could easily differ from what Darkfyre99 might have in mind, which is why I'm asking.

 

[Codger]

I can't even imagine a version of Powerplay that would interest me. So...whatever they do is fine!