I'm always interested in data. Can you show the data table and how you calculated/estimated the standard deviation?
-
Greetings Commander, want a more instant approach to your questions and need for help? Check out the Galactic Academy Discord server!
Feel free to join the Galactic Academy Discord server by clicking here!
Newcomer / Intro Power Usage Changed
- Thread starter hawknerd
- Start date
And to think just a month ago I was busy getting my lasers to touch all over the roid
I tried 4 prospectors but hate having them jumping up and down in the contacts panel
It would be great to have mining competitions and a special Elite Miners Decal who said CG was dead
I tried 4 prospectors but hate having them jumping up and down in the contacts panel
It would be great to have mining competitions and a special Elite Miners Decal who said CG was dead
OK my last word on this since you are determined to focus on mining time.
1. You stated (post #15) that "the limpets can't keep up with three lasers, which causes the fragments to spread out and push the collection time much higher " - I clearly showed that the collectors don't have a higher "collection time". The collectors will take the time it needs to travel to the number of fragments and return those to the ship. What the 3 lasers does is reduce the time spent chipping-off fragments.
2. Your assertion that "the fragments to spread out" is demonstrated to be absolutely not the case - they travel only so far and then sit in a group. You can see that for both stationary and simple-rotation asteroids in my videos above. Where there is a more complex series of surfaces on a rotating asteroid then the resting place of fragments is more dispersed but again all fragments are fetched before expiring (video below). Only where you have rapidly tumbling (not simple rotation) irregular asteroids do you get a wild dispersal of fragments - so I don't mine those (so didn't make a video) why waste time on such a one - move on to another.
3. The fact that I finish lasering whilst there are still collectors active does not increase the time taken to mine an asteroid. The collectors take the time needed, they are not taking longer since I control the dispersal of fragments and more importantly when finished lasering I can position my ship to minimise collector travel time.
4. Another advantage of finishing the lasering quickly is that I can look to prospect other asteroids whilst the collectors finish-off and of course I get to drink my coffee.
5. I stated before that I am not interested in urinating up a wall over rate of mining tonnes of LTDs - I just have to my mind an efficient and tolerable method of mining each asteroid. So the length of time it takes to mine 10 asteroids is of no consequence since a large determinant would be finding asteroids with worthwhile compositions - just mining 10 of any old rock is, as I say, just an exercise in urinating up a wall - no thanks.
So in conclusion, I feel that you are barking up the wrong tree asserting that fragments spread out too much - if that is happening to you then perhaps you could adjust your method?
EDIT - Just noticed that you posted a video in post #37: Yes sticking your nose in a rock and having fragments kick out in a line and have six collector picking up fragments as they are still travelling is fine - I like my method, it works fine and keeps me happy.
Last edited:
Let me mediate for the two of you:I disagree with this - I have 5 collectors on the go with 3 mining lasers and they have no issue clearing up all the mining fragments before any fragments expire. I have checked this several times, targeting the last fragment and watching it decay, they always get collected before they wither and die.
As long as you don't have fragments spurting-off in all directions and so having more travel time for the limpets then I can't see a problem - I try to have the fragments come off in a steady stream and ensure I am close and move above them on depletion - things seems to run smoothly.
I believe the two of you use different definitions of "keep up"
@d8veh : Para Handy use "keep up" in that all fragments are collected before any expire.
@Para Handy : d8veh use "keep up" in that you have minimal wait from rock depletion to last fragment picked up.
Do you both agree with this?
This is just one of those differences in approaches that comes up from time to time. I am not into the thought of maximising returns, I just like to enjoy my time in the game.
I am happy that @d8veh has a method that he finds suits him, I just bridled at the " ... assuming that you know how to mine " comment so did some videos.
I found it a bit strange as both of you are at the top of my list of having been very helpfull with my dumb questions in this and my previous incarnation of Shadow Quest
I read that comment different from you. The way I read it was a general statement, not a personal, which said that essentially mining speed is determined mostly by combination of mining lasers and collectors, not ship.
Now there are more nuance like positioning, prospecting, speed to next asteroid etc, but I think it was meant as a general "unless you're doing something very wrong, the main determination of mining speed is lasers and collectors"
Last edited:
![[VR] Orodruin](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/237/237188.jpg?1614840532){kind=avatar}
I used the data from my last 9 mining runs in the Python (which is when I decided to run with 4 prospectors and 7 collectors instead of 2 prospectors and 8 collectors). I extracted the data from my flight log on Inara (which is why I have the time between jumping into and out of Borann). The data points were (in minutes):
53
57
62
61
53
66
58
55
53
The standard deviation in these times was estimated using the definition of standard deviation in a data set. In order to get the 1 sigma range for tons/hour, I performed a Student's T-test on the these times (and subtracted 3 minutes for getting from the arrival star to start mining). For the tons/hour range I divided 198 tons by the end-points of the resulting confidence interval.
To show 7 limpets keeping up with 3 lasers, I also just went on a recorded run with my Python and added another data point - a definitive outlier at 44 minutes from jumping into Borann to jumping out. Less than 40 minutes from firing the first prospector to starting to plot the course out of Borann. Including this data point would bring the mean to 223 tons/hour. I did ignore cores because my main idea was recording the limpets keeping up, but most of all I would say I was lucky with the asteroid percentages. I am editing the movie to speed up the prospecting and travelling parts, it is post-processing now and I will upload it when it is done.
Edit: The sell point being Electra, 450 ly away from Borann, it occurs to me that just maybe my cr/hour would have been better selling at 1 Mcr/ton at a closer station ... I almost spent as much time not mining as mining ... With a closer selling point at 1.6 Mcr/ton this run might have broken 300 Mcr/hour ...
Last edited:
Can you show your ship's outfitting?
Sure.
I am mining without fuel scoop and FSD booster. For sell locations outside of my range I drop into Thomson Orbital (12 ls from the arrival star) in Caereddi (17 ly from Borann) where I keep a size 5 FSD booster and a 5A Fuel Scoop (and my mining ships when I do something else) that I replace the size 5 limpet controllers with. This takes me 4-5 minutes that I almost make back with the increased range from the FSD booster, which means I do less jumps. (In the case of Electra, I probably got it back and then some - the FSD booster adds 40% to the laden range.)
Edit: I have been meaning to lightweight the prospector controller and the last size 3 collector controller for some time. This would 0.78 ly of laden jump range. However, doing so now would be directly counter-productive to my current personal goals of filling up all engineering material bins.
Last edited:
I can go out and find spinning rocks, where I can make the fragments come out in a line, but I can't normally do that for 5 in a row in a sensible time. Showing one rock at a time is pretty meaningless.OK my last word on this since you are determined to focus on mining time.
1. You stated (post #15) that "the limpets can't keep up with three lasers, which causes the fragments to spread out and push the collection time much higher " - I clearly showed that the collectors don't have a higher "collection time". The collectors will take the time it needs to travel to the number of fragments and return those to the ship. What the 3 lasers does is reduce the time spent chipping-off fragments.
2. Your assertion that "the fragments to spread out" is demonstrated to be absolutely not the case - they travel only so far and then sit in a group. You can see that for both stationary and simple-rotation asteroids in my videos above. Where there is a more complex series of surfaces on a rotating asteroid then the resting place of fragments is more dispersed but again all fragments are fetched before expiring (video below). Only where you have rapidly tumbling (not simple rotation) irregular asteroids do you get a wild dispersal of fragments - so I don't mine those (so didn't make a video) why waste time on such a one - move on to another.
3. The fact that I finish lasering whilst there are still collectors active does not increase the time taken to mine an asteroid. The collectors take the time needed, they are not taking longer since I control the dispersal of fragments and more importantly when finished lasering I can position my ship to minimise collector travel time.
4. Another advantage of finishing the lasering quickly is that I can look to prospect other asteroids whilst the collectors finish-off and of course I get to drink my coffee.
5. I stated before that I am not interested in urinating up a wall over rate of mining tonnes of LTDs - I just have to my mind an efficient and tolerable method of mining each asteroid. So the length of time it takes to mine 10 asteroids is of no consequence since a large determinant would be finding asteroids with worthwhile compositions - just mining 10 of any old rock is, as I say, just an exercise in urinating up a wall - no thanks.
So in conclusion, I feel that you are barking up the wrong tree asserting that fragments spread out too much - if that is happening to you then perhaps you could adjust your method?
EDIT - Just noticed that you posted a video in post #37: Yes sticking your nose in a rock and having fragments kick out in a line and have six collector picking up fragments as they are still travelling is fine - I like my method, it works fine and keeps me happy.
Basically, what you're saying is that you're happy mining in not the most efficient way. That's OK if that's what you want. When I say that the limpets can't keep up, I mean that your efficiency goes down and using 3 lasers with 5 limpets will be less efficient than 2 lasers.
The critical path is the time it takes the collectors to collect, not the time to extract the fragments with the lasers. Simple logic should tell you that by bringing the fragments out faster, the last ones will have to wait longer before they're collected. They're not stationary. They're moving away from the rocks, so when they wait longer to be collected, they travel further and the limpets will have further to travel to collect them, which will take longer. Only when they're all in a line or close group are you able to move your ship to shorten that distance, and, as you well know, you can't do that every time - not without spending a lot more time looking for just the right rocks,
In some cases, you can move your ship to fire a prospector at the next rock while collecting, but only some cases. You didn't do it in any of your three videos because you concentrated on positioning you ship for faster collection. Only rarely can you do both.
Thanks. I'll try that tomorrow or the day after to see if I can replicate those times.
To be fair though, I would say the main contributor to these times are not the three lasers but the four prospectors. It was only when I switched from 2 prospectors and 8 collectors to 4 prospectors and 7 collectors that I started to relatively consistently achieve times below the hour. The reason I made the switch was that I very consistently had one or more collectors just sitting back enjoying the view as there was no work for them.
Other stuff that can affect results (tell me if there are other parameters you want to know):
- My limit for mining an asteroid is 20% LTD content.
- I fly FA off (this should not really affect results though, but who knows)
- If I am unsure about how the fragments will come out from a rock, I give it a short burst with the lasers to see the direction in which the fragments come out and then align my ship to be on top of the fragment stream.
Among the five runs just before I made this switch I was averaging 66 minutes (jump to jump) and only managed below the hour once (and then clocked in at 59 minutes).
Video is done but I have some work to do, will try to upload it to YouTube later today and link it.
However, they are not still moving, they come to rest just like very other thing moving in space in Elite - canisters, materials and fragments - all come to rest in Elite's refutation / modification of Newtonian mechanics.
Anywayup - whether one uses your six collectors scooping up fragments as they are produced by two lasers or my five collectors fetching the grouped fragments from three lasers - what is important is how one feels about what one is doing. You focus on "efficiency" - I am more interested in having a relaxed time in my game rather than feeling like it is a job.
![[PS4] Filthymick420](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/201/201444.jpg?1555738739){kind=avatar}
Tl;dr does making my ship more powerful make it require more power? Gee let me think....
I want lots of collectors for this very reason! Once I have depleted an asteroid I ideally want to be able to turn to the next asteroid right away! That's more relaxing to me. I also start to get bored after about an hour of laser mining. I currently use 10 collectors for 3 medium lasers in a Corvette, which is about minimum I like to be able to deal with asteroids flipping rotational axis.However, they are not still moving, they come to rest just like very other thing moving in space in Elite - canisters, materials and fragments - all come to rest in Elite's refutation / modification of Newtonian mechanics.
Anywayup - whether one uses your six collectors scooping up fragments as they are produced by two lasers or my five collectors fetching the grouped fragments from three lasers - what is important is how one feels about what one is doing. You focus on "efficiency" - I am more interested in having a relaxed time in my game rather than feeling like it is a job.
Here is the video of my mining run today, from leaving Thomson Orbital to getting back after selling at Electra. All in all 28 asteroids mined. For the last asteroid I was left with only two limpets but just had to fill a little more than the last refinery bin.
The fragments that do fly away are materials and not LTD fragments. The collectors are ignoring them because my raw materials are full.
To each his/her own. It is a game intended for recreation after all.Anywayup - whether one uses your six collectors scooping up fragments as they are produced by two lasers or my five collectors fetching the grouped fragments from three lasers - what is important is how one feels about what one is doing. You focus on "efficiency" - I am more interested in having a relaxed time in my game rather than feeling like it is a job.
Before I set off, how many limpets do you take and what do you do with the pulse wave scanner?
I take around 160 limpets. This is usually overkill and I throw at least 20-30 per run. Perhaps not optimal, but you never know when you will screw up.
The PWA I use occasionally to see if there are any suspiciously yellow and popcorn-like asteroids. If there are I momentarily change my prospecting path to move towards them rather than whatever directional waypoint I have set. I prospect along the path regardless and do not bolt straight for the shiny stuff. If the yellow asteroid it is an LTD core, I mine it. I do not think this is necessary or affects the rate much (positively or negatively). I mainly do it for variation. In fact, in the run I posted above, I did not use it at all as my intent was pure laser mining. It also means I could take the same ship core mining without refitting it if one day I would decide I need some diversification.
TLDR: The PWA and core mining equipment are mainly for diversion purposes, they are not essential for the build or main mining mode. If you prefer to run without you can probably get away with a smaller power plant, but I did not check that.
Last edited: