Powerplay 2.0 “Open” Rewards

Rubbernuke

Rubbernuke
Ragnascot said:
Very good point
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Given that FD seem to be making life easier and more combat friendly (IIRC there was a comment on one of the rewards in V2 being free rebuys) it really comes down to changing block lists to block / filter language since player conflict is then expected.

You'd have to make it so wings of unpledged inherit pledged rules though. It might actually help the P2P code given its screwed up by trying to mesh lists.
 

[VR] Bulbulunufus

[VR] Bulbulunufus
DemiserofD said:
The opposite is true, actually. Right now, things are mostly Fair. Most stuff happens in solo, but since everyone can equally contribute that way, the fight is relatively equal.
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Most merits that actually benefit anything are done in open. It depends on power. The Federal powerplay groups operate an open-only policy and track merits so can see that they did the overwhelming majority. Most ALD groups and Kumo are similar. AD, Antal, Mahon are very roughly 50/50. Torval and Grom are a different matter but are only active sporadically. The remaining two powers are small and don't really feature in the plays that people notice.
DemiserofD said:
But if you force everyone into open, they will mostly counter each other out. That means the few remaining players who can't be seen will have their effect disproportionately magnified. After all, if both sides have PVP ships killing 9/10 of all trade ships before they can get there, but there is one player who can get through unhindered, they are effectively 10 times more powerful than before. This, in turn, heavily incentivizes Network manipulation to avoid instancing with hostile players.

Pretty soon, the players who are trying to play legitimately will quit, feeling as if their effort doesn't matter. At that point, the game will be entirely dominated by the small subset of the population who never actually see anyone else.
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How is this different from the current situation of going to solo/PG, except that fewer people will engage in such illegitimiate gameplay than would ho solo/PG currently? You are describing the current problem with PP in solo counting.
 

[VR] Bulbulunufus

[VR] Bulbulunufus
DemiserofD said:
Things actually get worse if there's not perfect balance. The weaker side will basically be unable to make ANY progress except for what they can do hidden, and will therefore be maximally incentivized to fix their connection to allow them to win.

The only time there won't be extreme pressure to cheat is if there's no pvpers on either side.

On the whole, I'd rather confine PVP to specific regions, instead.
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The main problem with making PvP count directly is collusion exploit. No-one should be even entertaining the idea without some hard thought about mitigating that out of existence. It is the order one problem of the concept, all other aspects of design are subordinate to that.
 

angusmadmac1

angusmadmac1
Ok question does blowing up enemy ships differentiate between player or NPC ? Is there an added bonus for blowing up Commanders ? If not then PP isn't PvP orientated and therefore the argument could be classed as invalid ?
PP and even more so PP2 is BGS just filling up pots and you lose because the other side filled up more pots ?
Not because one was in open or if you want to fly with friends in PG or you want something to do in solo .
You run the same risks the NPC are the same their reactions will be the same.
You may be lucky to come across a player ?
And they may not be on the same side and they may choose to ignore you or attack you they may not care it's PP ?
Some will be doing it for the modules ? I assume Fdev haven't thought about changing that unfortunately ( it was their idea to get folk interested in PP ?) take away the modules and you have a sub section who do care about PP .
Then we have instancing and timezones all which even in "open" means we may never meet ? So why so much angst about what mode people play in ?
I'm a firm believer of playing it your way be it open PG or Solo .
 

Disemboweled Ego

D
Ragnascot said:
There may be valid arguments against open only, so i’d like to mention some ideas towards a compromise (in the hope it inspires better ones)
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No compromises.

If you want open only it can't use the same mechanics as something designed for a asynchronous who can grind singleplayer activities the hardest gameplay.
 
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Phoenix_Dfire

Phoenix_Dfire
I'd have no problem with the open/ pvt / solo options if the NPCs were up to the task of being an effective counter to player activates. However, in PP1, they're not. I do feel that any PP would have benefitted from a more weighted system were open players have more effect in the Powerplay Background Sim than players in pvt or solo. Everyone gets the same rewards for doing their activity but if you want to get you power more influence, then do the activities in open.
 

StellarKnight

S
Power Play is entirely player driven which makes it PvP (player vs player). Open only Power Play is possibly the last hype train which is getting traction. Hopefully Fdev will finally decide if Elite would be the best space MMO or just a grind fest with the most fun space ship flight model.
 

CMDR Alswulf

CMDR Alswulf
fully up for it! It will actually revive so many game loops for all main ingame aspects:
  • wanna deliver tops of cargo? Request a convoy support, ask friends, hire mercs
  • wanna attack something: gather allies, create alliances
  • wanna do sneaky disruption stuff? Feel the actual danger from those who are protecting their assets
Aren't we are playing it for interactions with other players which are also trying to put impact on the whole game world?
And since new pp2 gameplay bind to a rewards - it would be kinda not that fair if some groups just do it from "secured modes" like solo/private when other players had to achieve the same competing with each other.

The least desired but could be "acceptable" from my pov that solo/pg mode would have huge debuff on impact onto pp2 activities. Same goes for rewards: it should be lower than achieving them from open.

Hope we face it open only and add more various interactions in the game we adore all

Cheers,
Alswulf
o7
 

Grincake

G
Many good comments here. I would also favour an open-only strategy. For me, the option of significantly limiting the influence generated on PP in PG and Solo is a perfectly conceivable middle ground. As for the PvP part: all sides have their "snipers" and use them and go hunting for Haulers. I don't see any real advantage for anyone there.
 

Rebel Yell

Rebel Yell
Mrc_NorthEast said:
But how would Open Only work with block lists the way they are? Cmdr names on both sides are known
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Well... serious groups should forbid the use of blocklists.

Ah, yes... like us :D

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Northpin

Northpin
Ferox Worgen said:
A lot of us who play either/both of the mechanics know the headache it is to fight against players who are not in Open
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Do you?
Tell me a system you're BGS defending in open and i will make it my goal to show you how much of a headache you will get for fighting against me in open
And keep it in mind, i will fly an unarmed small ship.

Let see how many times will you kill me, getting bounties and affecting your faction and system security before realizing that's not how you should do BGS
 

Rat Catcher

Rat Catcher
IstvaanDCIV said:
Lots of people seem convinced that Open only is the way to go. But I'm not so certain that it would make them happy in practice.
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As this is a discussion over PP, I'd have thought that PP players having their own, dedicated, mode would make then ecstatic, the only other players they meet will be involved in PP, and no PP activity can happen outside of this mode.

It is a win for everyone, surely?
 
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