Powerplay: Ideas from the devs - Feedback wanted! #3

[TheLongShanks]

Yes!!!!!!

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I posted this as its own thread, but after reading the proposals I still dislike the fact that PowerPlay is a separate strategy game attached to a space sim. It's supposed to be an optional play-if-you-want career at the same time as providing the basis for how power is defined through the galaxy which seems contradictory.

For those who feel like I do, Elite: Dangerous at its core is a spaceship sim. We play it because we want to pretend that we're Han Solo/Malcolm Reynolds/Roj Blake, zooming around space making a living however we choose. PowerPlay was intended to give players another direction to follow, but instead it limits the options pilots have and in some cases works against the basic structure of the game.

So, If I am a trader, explorer, bounty hunter, smuggler or pirate, how do I participate in PowerPlay? From what I can tell, you can't. You basically have to give up your career as a pilot when you pledge to a PowerPlay Power and work specific tasks to get merits.

Merits and Control Capital have no real value in the Elite: Dangerous universe. Credits and Reputation are the currencies of the galaxy. Working towards one set hurts the other, or at least prevents advancement.

The PowerPlay Powers are not in line with the established Main Factions. Someone who is a Federation Post Commander can pledge to Senator Duval, and a Baron in the Empire can go to work for Zachary Hudson and no one bats an eye. Attacking or undermining a Power has no effect on reputation with the main faction unless you specifically attack one of their subfaction, but there is currently no tie between a Power who holds a system or the subfaction who controls it in the Background Simulator.

Rank in a Power has no tie to rank with a Faction. For example, being a top ranked member of the Federation gets you no sway with the Federation Powers, nor does ranking up with a Power affect your standing with the aligned Faction.

There are no permanent consequences to pledging to a power and quitting. There is a minor timed penalty for defecting, but Powers do not have a memory when it comes to treachery. Factions and subfactions keep track of when you wrong them and your reputation suffers, and if you continue your destructive behavior they will turn hostile and stop offering hiring you to hurt them.

PowerPlay expansion is governed through the application of Control Capital. Background Sim control is determined by faction status, economic and social strength which is altered by trading, exploration and combat undertaken by pilots who turn in missions, cargo and exploration data for rewards.

PowerPlay is purely opt-in, whereas all pilots in the game are bound by the Background Simulator and its Factions. It's very difficult to pretend that any of the Powers have true influence over the galaxy when as a group they can be collectively ignored.

Trading, exploring and combat represent the three main Pilot's Federation Elite rankings on which the core of the game itself is based, yet only combat plays a role in PowerPlay.

Those are the disconnects. Here are some suggestions.

1. Have profits from trade, exploration data, combat vouchers, and mission rewards generated in a system by ALL pilots, pledged or not, translate into Control Capital for the faction who controls the system. This would allow Pledgers to do something other than haul leaflets or garrison goods back and forth, or spend hours in protest zones as they can fill their cargo bays with other goods other than 10 tons of leaflets, so some bounty hunting or smuggling and make a little profit and help their Power at the same time.
   
   It also has a side effect of making non-pledgers a factor. An independent, non-aligned pilot who just wants to make a living can decide to follow the money, but in the back of his or her mind will always have to be aware that their money might be going somewhere they don't like. Therefore, a non-pledged pilot who still favors the Empire, for example, could trade freely throughout Empire factions without having to worry that they are helping the Federation. Factions could also attempt to lure non-aligned pilots to do business using the rewards which are already in place by the Powers. (Bounty hunting bonuses, trade bonuses, etc.) This would actually make those rewards more valuable, and give non-aligned pilots a reason to sell their soul for credits.
   
   
2. Make Background Sim Reputation and Rank carry over into PowerPlay. If you're hostile with the Federation, you can't pledge to a Fed Power. Hostile with the Empire? No deal. If you unpledge from a Power, no problem, but if you Defect that should be a hit to your rep that will take a LONG time to repair. Conversely, if you are ranked in that Faction's navy, or have a solid reputation, it should help you with the Pledged Power. Maybe this could be used to negate the effect of Merit Decay: if you are Friendly or Allied with the parent faction, Merit Decay slows or even stops, and give pilots an actual reason to stay friendly or allied with the main Faction.
   
   
   
3. Powers need to be aware when a player is trying to sabotage them. You can tank a subfaction's standing in a system by accepting and then failing jobs, but it hurts your rep with them and they eventually wise up and stop letting you hurt them. Powers need to have a memory, too. And just like the sub factions, you should have to work to get back in their good graces.
   
   
4. Something has to be done to give the Powers more character. Right now, they are fundamentally the same, outside of their portraits and description texts. Ethos just determines what kind of PowerPlay widgets you haul every 30 minutes based on your maximum allotment. Players should want to Pledge to a Power because it matches their play style more than anything else. Archon Delane should offer raid missions to destroy system authority ships and interdict trading. Mahon should be sending trade ships and courier missions to deliver envoys throughout the galaxy. Aisling Duval should be offering missions to free slaves, and destroy trade of places that allow the practice, etc. Even if these aren't missions offered through PowerPlay, the bulletin board missions should reflect the attitude of the controlling power, and the character of the Power should dictate what kind of pilots they are looking to attract.

So, TLDR; Integrating PowerPlay better with the space sim aspect of the game would give it broader appeal at the same time allowing pilots to play the game their own way and go a long way toward making PowerPlay seem less like a separate game.

Yes!

I want my playstyle/career to determine how I interact with power play and which power I choose.

Also please fix archon. He has the worst bonuses, the worst items, the lowest population, and is ostrisized by every community goal. If you want to assassinate just do it already and quit jering us around.

What's a upstanding pirate to do?

 

[John Xenir]

I have read the entire initial post, and while I don't have a lot for an input due to my limited experience with PowerPlay (only played for few weeks before Call of the Void kicked me out of bubble for more exploration), I shall say this: great step in communication improvement efforts.

We definitely need to know you, FD Guys, are thinking on improvements.
I myself am content simply knowing you're working on improving one piece of the game or another. Asking and brainstorming with Community - way to go!

I love the idea of flagging myself off from PP for a while. My call of the void is a perfect reason for needing this - I want to go out exploring, and deciding I don't want to be harassed by NPCs on my return - switch the PP off before venturing out, done.

 

[TheLongShanks]

Also, I definitely don't want my time rewarded in proportion to how much time someone else has. If I grind the merits, I want the rank. Guaranteed.

 

[criosx]

Something like this is needed. It makes sense. It has been said a thousand times by now. It would make for a better game.

I posted this as its own thread, but after reading the proposals I still dislike the fact that PowerPlay is a separate strategy game attached to a space sim. It's supposed to be an optional play-if-you-want career at the same time as providing the basis for how power is defined through the galaxy which seems contradictory.

For those who feel like I do, Elite: Dangerous at its core is a spaceship sim. We play it because we want to pretend that we're Han Solo/Malcolm Reynolds/Roj Blake, zooming around space making a living however we choose. PowerPlay was intended to give players another direction to follow, but instead it limits the options pilots have and in some cases works against the basic structure of the game.

So, If I am a trader, explorer, bounty hunter, smuggler or pirate, how do I participate in PowerPlay? From what I can tell, you can't. You basically have to give up your career as a pilot when you pledge to a PowerPlay Power and work specific tasks to get merits.

Merits and Control Capital have no real value in the Elite: Dangerous universe. Credits and Reputation are the currencies of the galaxy. Working towards one set hurts the other, or at least prevents advancement.

The PowerPlay Powers are not in line with the established Main Factions. Someone who is a Federation Post Commander can pledge to Senator Duval, and a Baron in the Empire can go to work for Zachary Hudson and no one bats an eye. Attacking or undermining a Power has no effect on reputation with the main faction unless you specifically attack one of their subfaction, but there is currently no tie between a Power who holds a system or the subfaction who controls it in the Background Simulator.

Rank in a Power has no tie to rank with a Faction. For example, being a top ranked member of the Federation gets you no sway with the Federation Powers, nor does ranking up with a Power affect your standing with the aligned Faction.

There are no permanent consequences to pledging to a power and quitting. There is a minor timed penalty for defecting, but Powers do not have a memory when it comes to treachery. Factions and subfactions keep track of when you wrong them and your reputation suffers, and if you continue your destructive behavior they will turn hostile and stop offering hiring you to hurt them.

PowerPlay expansion is governed through the application of Control Capital. Background Sim control is determined by faction status, economic and social strength which is altered by trading, exploration and combat undertaken by pilots who turn in missions, cargo and exploration data for rewards.

PowerPlay is purely opt-in, whereas all pilots in the game are bound by the Background Simulator and its Factions. It's very difficult to pretend that any of the Powers have true influence over the galaxy when as a group they can be collectively ignored.

Trading, exploring and combat represent the three main Pilot's Federation Elite rankings on which the core of the game itself is based, yet only combat plays a role in PowerPlay.

Those are the disconnects. Here are some suggestions.

1. Have profits from trade, exploration data, combat vouchers, and mission rewards generated in a system by ALL pilots, pledged or not, translate into Control Capital for the faction who controls the system. This would allow Pledgers to do something other than haul leaflets or garrison goods back and forth, or spend hours in protest zones as they can fill their cargo bays with other goods other than 10 tons of leaflets, so some bounty hunting or smuggling and make a little profit and help their Power at the same time.
   
   It also has a side effect of making non-pledgers a factor. An independent, non-aligned pilot who just wants to make a living can decide to follow the money, but in the back of his or her mind will always have to be aware that their money might be going somewhere they don't like. Therefore, a non-pledged pilot who still favors the Empire, for example, could trade freely throughout Empire factions without having to worry that they are helping the Federation. Factions could also attempt to lure non-aligned pilots to do business using the rewards which are already in place by the Powers. (Bounty hunting bonuses, trade bonuses, etc.) This would actually make those rewards more valuable, and give non-aligned pilots a reason to sell their soul for credits.
2. Make Background Sim Reputation and Rank carry over into PowerPlay. If you're hostile with the Federation, you can't pledge to a Fed Power. Hostile with the Empire? No deal. If you unpledge from a Power, no problem, but if you Defect that should be a hit to your rep that will take a LONG time to repair. Conversely, if you are ranked in that Faction's navy, or have a solid reputation, it should help you with the Pledged Power. Maybe this could be used to negate the effect of Merit Decay: if you are Friendly or Allied with the parent faction, Merit Decay slows or even stops, and give pilots an actual reason to stay friendly or allied with the main Faction.
3. Powers need to be aware when a player is trying to sabotage them. You can tank a subfaction's standing in a system by accepting and then failing jobs, but it hurts your rep with them and they eventually wise up and stop letting you hurt them. Powers need to have a memory, too. And just like the sub factions, you should have to work to get back in their good graces.
4. Something has to be done to give the Powers more character. Right now, they are fundamentally the same, outside of their portraits and description texts. Ethos just determines what kind of PowerPlay widgets you haul every 30 minutes based on your maximum allotment. Players should want to Pledge to a Power because it matches their play style more than anything else. Archon Delane should offer raid missions to destroy system authority ships and interdict trading. Mahon should be sending trade ships and courier missions to deliver envoys throughout the galaxy. Aisling Duval should be offering missions to free slaves, and destroy trade of places that allow the practice, etc. Even if these aren't missions offered through PowerPlay, the bulletin board missions should reflect the attitude of the controlling power, and the character of the Power should dictate what kind of pilots they are looking to attract.

So, TLDR; Integrating PowerPlay better with the space sim aspect of the game would give it broader appeal at the same time allowing pilots to play the game their own way and go a long way toward making PowerPlay seem less like a separate game.

 

[EAGLE 5]

I'll be 100% honest I disliked the whole powerplay concept and gameplay and quit shortly after devoting countless of hours on it with seemingly no reward. That said I do like the introduction of the concept between those who do and those who don't and those who'd rather not with the freedom fighter idea. I'm for that but that said will being a FF get you labeled and shot on sight like joining an actual faction? that is seriously the most annoyin (second after the grtind) of PP. I.'d rather fight for my system and keep the kool aid drinkers out but still be able to go places elsewhere.

 

[CMDR Nef]

Don't forget being able to place emblems on your ship of the faction you're currently pledged to!

 

[TzuDevil]

1) First and foremost.... Once you pledge you should have access to a power specific paint job. Nothing says commitment like a "uniform". It will also build pride in your faction and help build comradery. This would also get a lot of new players to "test the waters", and perhaps even bring in some extra $$$ for Frontier.... You know the old saying "first hit's free". It may get some to consider spending money on paint schemes when they had not before, once they see how awesome their ship looks. You could even have a line of special faction paint jobs for uber grinders, so people would have something to work towards and show off.

2) Powerplay specific instances that you can only see when you are in "open". A little pvp zone that spawns in contested systems... Make it so there is a place to fight, and also a place to deliver special goods. I personally love the idea of building up a combat transport that has to run a gauntlet to deliver supplies. It would be a great place to PVP and a great incentive to "wing up". This would allow for solo players to solo on, while allowing open players to experience a little more of what makes open play inviting. It may also get some solo players to test the waters and even make some friends.

3) Better information/communication. Period. It has to be obvious that once you hit a certain point new systems have a hidden cost. There has to be robust, even if not direct, ways for players to communicate with each other. These things will reduce frustration, and allow people to feel like they are part of something bigger than themselves... Say, like they are part of a community. The up down vote is a start, but this area IS the way forward.

There are lots of good ideas in this thread, but ultimately, game play that builds community always wins in an MMO.

 

[TzuDevil]

Merits vs Favour.

Just have one system... Make it so merits do not decay, but you have to "spend" them. Make it twice as hard to earn them if you like to account for the old decay system. Then keep a running total of all merits ever earned by a commander for special benefits and titles.

This way people with less time per week could strive for that 10k reward and people who want to earn more per cycle could do so without wasting effort (after they have reached their 10k).

 

[Lupin]

While is seems powerplay has a number of faults. One of the biggest is the powers lack of being able stop planet blockades in there own home systems.
This is a bottle neck as you have to visit home systems for power to support them. So if system not safe why support that power?
I can accept it that a power can not be everywhere, but own home systems blockade is an insult. And would be like parking a battle ship in the English channel and shooting down airlines.

I suggest that all powers have permit system for home world/system. Only available if you are working for them.

 

[clinton]

I would like to see at least 1% of merits be permanent.

So lets say you earn 1000 merits in a week. Then 10 merits get added permanently to your record. These permanent merits count towards all rewards, perhaps with the exception of salary, where one can only use permanent merits equal to the merits earned that week.

Note that 1% is fairly minor, it would take two years for your permanent merits to reach the level of your average weekly merits, but it would slightly encourage people to stick with the same faction.

 

[CTCParadox]

As others have said the issue is the disconnected nature of Powerplay.
The separate fortify, undermine, expand mechanics are unnecessary when influence, and faction states already exist.
Tie Powerplay into the BGS and expand on the BGS and Powerplay together.

The very fact that Powerplay is an almost entirely optional part of the game speaks volumes about how unsure it is of itself.
If it we really good there would be no problem to integrate it more tightly.

Also adding more flavour like having Imperial, Federal and Alliance powers interacting differently in the Powerplay system would be great.

CMDR CTCParadox

 

[Walt Kerman]

Freedom Fighters should have a monetary mechanic as well.... then we could actually be mercenaries!

 

[Fox White]

Wow this is amazing! Im often frustrated by FD but I really like this post connecting to the community!

The up/down vote part would really help me. I try PP every once in awhile but its frustrating trying to figure out what exactly I should be doing. Up/down vote would certainly help PP have more of a organized group feeling.

 

[Hydrino]

This post by ElectricZ

I posted this as its own thread, but after reading the proposals I still dislike the fact that PowerPlay is a separate strategy game attached to a space sim. It's supposed to be an optional play-if-you-want career at the same time as providing the basis for how power is defined through the galaxy which seems contradictory.

For those who feel like I do, Elite: Dangerous at its core is a spaceship sim. We play it because we want to pretend that we're Han Solo/Malcolm Reynolds/Roj Blake, zooming around space making a living however we choose. PowerPlay was intended to give players another direction to follow, but instead it limits the options pilots have and in some cases works against the basic structure of the game.

So, If I am a trader, explorer, bounty hunter, smuggler or pirate, how do I participate in PowerPlay? From what I can tell, you can't. You basically have to give up your career as a pilot when you pledge to a PowerPlay Power and work specific tasks to get merits.

So, TLDR; Integrating PowerPlay better with the space sim aspect of the game would give it broader appeal at the same time allowing pilots to play the game their own way and go a long way toward making PowerPlay seem less like a separate game.

This^^^!

PP should be integrated into the BGS. No separate meta game disconnected from the whole. Either in the regular game or out like CQC (which should also, IMHO, appear at specific systems in the game universe).

BTW; thanks for this thread Sandro. DDF may only have caught one design miss (POI hopping rooms in space), but PP disconnects seem to have been another such miss that could have been caught earlier.

PP seems like a really good idea, if only more connected to the core and ensuring all player actions feed into it even if they don't pledge or realize it.

If PP can be more integrated as ElectricZ suggests and also made more apparent in the Missions boards, just like the BGS and Faction missions are now so much more clear/better; well, win-win-win.

 

[crushdepth]

I like the freedom fighter idea. I don't participate in powerplay because the grindy aspects of it "carry A to B" or "kill X zombies and come back" to get "merit"...well they just bore me to death to be honest. So do the "political intrigue" storylines, I don't feel any personal buy-in and I just don't care how many systems power X controls.

But kicking the **** out of my favourite system though, that might be something I could get behind. It seems (relatively speaking) like a smaller and much more achievable goal and being a system I frequent (usually because of facilities or commodities) gives me some reason to buy in.