Powerplay in Solo

[Robert Maynard]

But you can't really know that.

It's not known - by either side.

And I expect some players in ED as a whole don't have engineering. I just don't think thats for very long in the main game or in Powerplay. The latter especially, since you have to quickly move beyond a stock ship to do useful levels of work.

Before the fold down of Horizons, half of copies of the game sold did not have Horizons, therefore less than half of potential players had access to engineering.

Epic gave away c.8M copies of the game in a week, about double what had been sold in the previous five years. I suspect that a large subset of those players have little or no engineering in the last two months.

Frontier have the data though, if they choose to analyse it.

 

[Rubbernuke]

It's not known - by either side.

Its assumed, since players build what they think is best for that situation. If you know you'll never face engineering you can skimp, but in Open that attitude is suicide.

Before the fold down of Horizons, half of copies of the game sold did not have Horizons, therefore less than half of potential players had access to engineering.

Epic gave away c.8M copies of the game in a week, about double what had been sold in the previous five years. I suspect that a large subset of those players have little or no engineering in the last two months.

Frontier have the data though, if they choose to analyse it.

And out of that many, how many play Powerplay? Out of that many, who has kept an unengineered ship- and in what role? I can think of only one reason, for cheap burn ships for BGS murder. For anything else you need an edge to compete if you are opposing better ships.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Which in Powerplay makes no sense, otherwise you are negating hostile territory and making it pointless. Something has to make hostile space hostile, otherwise- whats it for? Its yet more game left to rot.

It makes sense from the perspective that player opposition is an optional extra - which applies to any game feature. The mode shared galaxy has meant that blockades are not possible in this game (although players can choose to opt in to blockade RP)..

The threat has to impact the player in either compromised loadout, ship, time etc, otherwise its not doing its job. Like I say above, whats the point of territory otherwise? Being safe in a hostile space is absurd, especially since NPCs seem incapable of doing that but players can.

The threat level is set by Frontier. Powerplay notwithstanding, DBOBE has stated that he's not keen on large player groups telling others what to do, e.g. "leave or we;'ll kill you".

It also suggests you view skill as being the same or below a player, while I like to view the skill ceiling being set slightly higher.

Some will meet more skilled opponents, some won't - it's a consequence of not all players being at the same point on the skill distribution, i.e. half of players in a population are at or below median skill for that population.

Its was more of a thought experiment than anything else. But again it is possible if you move players and NPCs away from stations. If NPCs are nasty enough and allowed to roam in POIs it would be ideal- the hidden trader POI is a perfect fit for that, since it randomises distances and locations, makes cargo transfer risky, allows engineered NPCs to attack freely.

Creating specific, mobile, POIs for Powerplay might well work.

You can go after Thargoids after an hour- would you? Its pretty representative of most pledges since most players get funneled though offical groups at one point. And since Powerplay is finding efficiency you really have to engineer to compete. When I started 10,000 merits was a multi week marathon. Today that can be done in a day- AFK turretboats in PG have been seen generating 300,000 merits a week- whats that, thirty times Rank 5?

It's up to each player - they're not locked out by the game.

I agree that turretboating should be removed from the game, by one means or another.

You risk your ship to achieve that, in a more risky environment. Its like cycling on a path and then cycling on a road- the road with cars and more risks is the more dangerous to get where you are going.

It's choosing to cycle on the road when there's a perfectly good cycle path - not all players will choose the road.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Its assumed, since players build what they think is best for that situation. If you know you'll never face engineering you can skimp, but in Open that attitude is suicide.

Assumptions go both ways. A player whose experience of playing the game in Open indicates that they are unlikely to meet other players (and there are certainly some who seem to meet few players) may make different choices to someone who plays at primetime for one region.

And out of that many, how many play Powerplay? Out of that many, who has kept an unengineered ship- and in what role? I can think of only one reason, for cheap burn ships for BGS murder. For anything else you need an edge to compete if you are opposing better ships.

It'd be interesting to see how the influx of new players affected the proportion of Powerplay pledges compared to the playerbase as a whole. It is possible that it may have dropped further.

The point comes back to "how many players have unlocked <n> engineers" - only Frontier have the data to populate that distribution.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Assumptions go both ways. A player whose experience of playing the game in Open indicates that they are unlikely to meet other players (and there are certainly some who seem to meet few players) may make different choices to someone who plays at primetime for one region.

And Powerplay groups you in areas that has players. Harma bubble for example has 3 PMFs all over the Powerplay capital you have to go to- I'd not really want to run away in an engineered ship when they (plus rival Power pledges too) are always there.

It'd be interesting to see how the influx of new players affected the proportion of Powerplay pledges compared to the playerbase as a whole. It is possible that it may have dropped further.

It depends. FD will know, but at the same time the more important question is who is shopping and who is playing.

The point comes back to "how many players have unlocked <n> engineers" - only Frontier have the data to populate that distribution.

Competition drives change and a desire to improve yourself. Powerplay is competitive, that drives players to be more efficient and survive better- in the wider game these pressures are not pronounced.

 

[Robert Maynard]

And Powerplay groups you in areas that has players. Harma bubble for example has 3 PMFs all over the Powerplay capital you have to go to- I'd not really want to run away in an engineered ship when they (plus rival Power pledges too) are always there.

For some. Not all players have the same instancing potential with other players.

It depends. FD will know, but at the same time the more important question is who is shopping and who is playing.

Indeed.

Competition drives change and a desire to improve yourself. Powerplay is competitive, that drives players to be more efficient and survive better- in the wider game these pressures are not pronounced.

Desire to improve ones skills, with respect to direct competition with other players, may be completely lacking - as the game design makes other players an optional extra.

 

[Rubbernuke]

It makes sense from the perspective that player opposition is an optional extra - which applies to any game feature. The mode shared galaxy has meant that blockades are not possible in this game (although players can choose to opt in to blockade RP)..

It makes no sense in Powerplay. You have a vast territory in which traversing it is easy and goes unchallenged by NPCs at all. And thats the issue here- its actual danger from general traffic. In solo PP that drops to nothing.

The threat level is set by Frontier. Powerplay notwithstanding, DBOBE has stated that he's not keen on large player groups telling others what to do, e.g. "leave or we;'ll kill you".

Which makes no sense with Powerplay, since you have large groups fighting over areas and saying the same. NPCs need to prevent 100% efficiency otherwise thats the mode of least resistance.

Some will meet more skilled opponents, some won't - it's a consequence of not all players being at the same point on the skill distribution, i.e. half of players in a population are at or below median skill for that population.

And thats part of the danger which needs to be weighted for. Some days will be great, others not...but you still have to prepare all the same.

Creating specific, mobile, POIs for Powerplay might well work.

Its the only way to give NPCs places to attack hauling transports and allow ambushes.

It's up to each player - they're not locked out by the game.

It is, but they can;t expect the same difficulty.

It's choosing to cycle on the road when there's a perfectly good cycle path - not all players will choose the road.

And this being a game requires the harder path to be rewarded better, otherwise its pointless fostering it- you are running three difficulties at once in the same environment and saying each one should be rewarded the same. Either you make each path the same, or make one worth more for using it.

 

[Bashy81]

You risk your ship to achieve that, in a more risky environment. Its like cycling on a path and then cycling on a road- the road with cars and more risks is the more dangerous to get where you are going.

It's choosing to cycle on the road when there's a perfectly good cycle path - not all players will choose the road.

Id say, and the authorities would agree, that in such a situation the only valid place to cycle is the "perfectly good cycle path". Unless youre going at speed & pose a threat to other path users, in which case you should be slowed down, or roughing it out with the other fast moving traffic on the road.

What a cycle path doesnt allow, is to lighten your car for straightline-speed, by removing all safety devices & bodyshell since you wont have to worry about any traffic, & then use the cycle path to race faster than otherwise identical road users on your own personal highway.

Now its an applicable analogy to the problem!

 

[Rubbernuke]

For some. Not all players have the same instancing potential with other players.

Which is true- but is that true for most players?

Desire to improve ones skills, with respect to direct competition with other players, may be completely lacking - as the game design makes other players an optional extra.

The underlying game needs to challenge otherwise its boring as you never leave your comfort zone. I don;t care where that comes from, just that its there to make doing the tasks you are given less than certain. If that was the case Powerplay would have more to it than a time x haul / shoot calculation to it.

 

[Robert Maynard]

It makes no sense in Powerplay. You have a vast territory in which traversing it is easy and goes unchallenged by NPCs at all. And thats the issue here- its actual danger from general traffic. In solo PP that drops to nothing.

Which makes no sense with Powerplay, since you have large groups fighting over areas and saying the same. NPCs need to prevent 100% efficiency otherwise thats the mode of least resistance.

And thats part of the danger which needs to be weighted for. Some days will be great, others not...but you still have to prepare all the same.

It is, but they can;t expect the same difficulty.

And this being a game requires the harder path to be rewarded better, otherwise its pointless fostering it- you are running three difficulties at once in the same environment and saying each one should be rewarded the same. Either you make each path the same, or make one worth more for using it.

It all comes back to the decision whereby all players affect the game and get to choose who they play among.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Id say, and the authorities would agree, that in such a situation the only valid place to cycle is the "perfectly good cycle path". Unless youre going at speed & pose a threat to other path users, in which case you should be slowed down, or roughing it out with the other fast moving traffic on the road.

What a cycle path doesnt allow, is to lighten your car for straightline-speed, by removing all safety devices & bodyshell since you wont have to worry about any traffic, & then use the cycle path to race faster than otherwise identical road users on your own personal highway.

Now its an applicable analogy

In the end it comes down to how you see Powerplay. Do you see it as a pure haul race and ignore the environment outside of prep / expansions etc, or do you make the travel in-between count to where it is something you need to think about?

 

[Robert Maynard]

Which is true- but is that true for most players?

Only Frontier know.

The underlying game needs to challenge otherwise its boring as you never leave your comfort zone. I don;t care where that comes from, just that its there to make doing the tasks you are given less than certain. If that was the case Powerplay would have more to it than a time x haul / shoot calculation to it.

The game does offer challenge - that it's not enough to satisfy some is obvious - however it can't be set too high else the majority of players won't find it fun.

Engineering offers players the choice of how to reduce the challenge posed by the game.

Why should a game force players out of their comfort zone? How many players find that to be "fun"?

 

[alexzk]

BGS is specially invented to put all play-modes together to compose MMO. That is different from any other MMOs do. Side effect of this you can do PP in solo by design and still play MMO.
Works as independent and designed.
Definition of MMO is: it is RPG where all players communicate directly on indirectly.
If you will do PP open only that will break communication to solo players and then that will be not MMO any more.

 

[Rubbernuke]

It all comes back to the decision whereby all players affect the game and get to choose who they play among.

No its not. As I repeatedly say over and over I don't care where that danger comes from as long as it exists to make the outcomes uncertain. Powerplay has the gathering parts but fails totally on PP NPCs being potent enough to prevent each run being identical to the last.

If you can;t do that, then you need to see modes that have that danger as being worth more to play in, otherwise you might as well shut off the concept of territory.

 

[Rubbernuke]

The game does offer challenge - that it's not enough to satisfy some is obvious - however it can't be set too high else the majority of players won't find it fun.

The challenge is to make play in solo less than 100% efficient. Hauling in solo is as safe as houses, so you can remove any uncertainty to the time x volume calculation. Less uncertainty leads to more predictable outcomes for the 'higher' Powerplay game (i.e. its uppermost strategic layer)

Engineering offers players the choice of how to reduce the challenge posed by the game.

Again, engineering is an arms race. Its you finding an edge over another but you still have equal access to it. The PP NPCs have no access at all- meaning you have a massive advantage over them not apparent with other players.

Why should a game force players out of their comfort zone? How many players find that to be "fun"?

Otherwise, how does it become more than simply trucking? If you have a simple task you can't fail thats not generating a desire to learn or improve in it.

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

The challenge is to make play in solo less than 100% efficient. Hauling in solo is as safe as houses, so you can remove any uncertainty to the time x volume calculation. Less uncertainty leads to more predictable outcomes for the 'higher' Powerplay game (i.e. its uppermost strategic layer)


Again, engineering is an arms race. Its you finding an edge over another but you still have equal access to it. The PP NPCs have no access at all- meaning you have a massive advantage over them not apparent with other players.


Otherwise, how does it become more than simply trucking? If you have a simple task you can't fail thats not generating a desire to learn or improve in it.

PP already asks us to dedicate an entire whole month of our lives in service of the reward goodies at the end... And you want there to be more chances of failure?

Why??? Who in Earth seriously thinks a month isn't long enough?

I don't get your obsession with this.

 

[alexzk]

I don't get your obsession with this

they made shiny pvp ship and want to use it on u, instead doing boring deliveries they may just kill other players...if any found.

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

they made shiny pvp ship and want to use it on u, instead doing boring deliveries they may just kill other players...if any found.

I suspect this exactly. I wish he would just come out and say it instead of all this sneaky mental gymnastics.

 

[Robert Maynard]

No its not. As I repeatedly say over and over I don't care where that danger comes from as long as it exists to make the outcomes uncertain. Powerplay has the gathering parts but fails totally on PP NPCs being potent enough to prevent each run being identical to the last.

If you can;t do that, then you need to see modes that have that danger as being worth more to play in, otherwise you might as well shut off the concept of territory.

That the current level of danger is not enough to satisfy a subset of players is obvious - just as it seems obvious that Frontier won't raise it to a level that disenfranchises the majority of players.

There is no player territorial control in this game - as no player is in control of any entity that "owns" systems. Players do, of course, influence those entities through PvE actions - but can't control who enters territory or pledges / becomes allied with the entities.

 

[Para Handy]

I typically see three different kinds of people.

The most common are those who never set foot in open, and advise others against doing so as well.

The next are those who claim to be in favor of things like open only Power Play, but then do all of their power play activities in secret.

The last are the people who are actually in favor of open only stuff. They walk the walk and talk the talk ... but I've never seen one of them actually doing anything other than PVP or ganking. For them, open only would just mean more targets, it would never actually mean more vulnerability on their behalf.

So you have the Practical, the hypocritical, and the self-centered. Honestly, it's a fairly refreshing slice of humanity pie.

This is nonsense, making wild assumptions and colouring things from your own world-view.

The most common BY FAR player is the one who plays in Open Play - F D have confirmed this many times.