Powerplay Faction: Felicia Winters Powerplay Solo vs. Open

[Mechman43]

So just got into playing Powerplay and absolutely love the super committed and dedicated communities for the game style. It's one of the biggest shining features that really makes Elite a ton of fun and unique. Building up a fleet, running missions and saving cash for Fortifications and Expansions makes it one of the best end game goals, but also a good money sink for a billionaire pilot. It encourages people to work together and coordinate and learn, but also keeps people active as the weeks will keep ticking. It also has a good balance because one pilot alone can't effect change as there is only so much time in a day one ship can haul or undermine.

But it has one glaring issue, Solo play.

You can create fleets and wings, organize supply runs and guard or blockade a system, but someone can easily drop down to solo and haul/undermine without anyone's knowledge or action.

Why not make Powerplay Open Exclusive? Want to make a change in the galaxy? It should happen in the open for everyone to see and act on! This would make for way better play as then hauling requires protection and protection grows stronger communities that work closer together!

And I'm not alone on this opinion Mandalore gaming expressed the same idea in his Elite video!

Source: https://youtu.be/EkrQvV0Yrb4?t=738

 

[Charlemagne42]

This is a great idea, I can’t believe Frontier didn’t design it this way to begin with. If they made PowerPlay open only from the start, then maybe they wouldn’t have added unique modules either - some of those are super overpowered, and some are mostly useless. Why would you create an imbalance like that in a mode you want people to spread themselves across evenly?

As it stands now, you’ll get the loudest opposition from those who think you should be able to mod-shop in Solo, with no regard whatsoever for the havoc you’re wreaking on how other people play the game in Open. So short of divorcing unique modules from PowerPlay entirely, here’s my compromise. If you want to affect “the shape of power in the galaxy”, you have to conduct your activities in Open. PowerPlay cargo hauled and ships destroyed in Open count towards objective progress for Powers as a whole. You also earn merits for turning in your work.

If, at any point between picking up the cargo and dropping it off, or between shooting the ships and cashing the merits, you boot up the game in Solo or PG, then you still get your merits. You did the work, you earned your personal reward. But it doesn’t contribute toward the Power’s objective progress as a whole.

This way, mod shoppers can still do their time and their merits, without interfering with the fair play everyone else is doing, in Open, to further the interests of their Power, not themselves.

And as for voting, let’s make that contingent on the progress you contributed towards your pledged Power’s objectives that week - in Open - instead of nothing but the total time you’ve spent pledged. As it stands now, anyone can pledge an infinite number of console accounts to a Power, wait a couple of months, and totally control the Power’s vote.

If you’re careful, you’ll notice that my compromise splits off all the PvE elements of PowerPlay designed for players to reap individual rewards, and permits those in Solo/PG. And all the PvP elements of PowerPlay which by definition pit player groups against one another? Those are restricted to Open Only.

 

[redshirt4life]

This is a great idea, I can’t believe Frontier didn’t design it this way to begin with. If they made PowerPlay open only from the start, then maybe they wouldn’t have added unique modules either - some of those are super overpowered, and some are mostly useless. Why would you create an imbalance like that in a mode you want people to spread themselves across evenly?

As it stands now, you’ll get the loudest opposition from those who think you should be able to mod-shop in Solo, with no regard whatsoever for the havoc you’re wreaking on how other people play the game in Open. So short of divorcing unique modules from PowerPlay entirely, here’s my compromise. If you want to affect “the shape of power in the galaxy”, you have to conduct your activities in Open. PowerPlay cargo hauled and ships destroyed in Open count towards objective progress for Powers as a whole. You also earn merits for turning in your work.

If, at any point between picking up the cargo and dropping it off, or between shooting the ships and cashing the merits, you boot up the game in Solo or PG, then you still get your merits. You did the work, you earned your personal reward. But it doesn’t contribute toward the Power’s objective progress as a whole.

This way, mod shoppers can still do their time and their merits, without interfering with the fair play everyone else is doing, in Open, to further the interests of their Power, not themselves.

And as for voting, let’s make that contingent on the progress you contributed towards your pledged Power’s objectives that week - in Open - instead of nothing but the total time you’ve spent pledged. As it stands now, anyone can pledge an infinite number of console accounts to a Power, wait a couple of months, and totally control the Power’s vote.

If you’re careful, you’ll notice that my compromise splits off all the PvE elements of PowerPlay designed for players to reap individual rewards, and permits those in Solo/PG. And all the PvP elements of PowerPlay which by definition pit player groups against one another? Those are restricted to Open Only.

There have been a bunch of proposals like this. Either make solo merits count less, or not at all. That way you can get your exclusive modules without inflating merits with no counter. The fact that people STILL take issue with that proves that it's not about the modules, It's about being able to do what they've been doing, which is to haul insane amounts of merits without any opposition. The proliferation of bots just exacerbates the issue. Add 5C (players joining enemy powers with the express intent of weakening them) into the mix, and you have a system that is beyond broken.

Personally, I don't think solo/PG should even be an option in the game. You have a starter area for new players. That should suffice to keep the gankers away while they learn the ropes. Maybe increase the ranks allowed before they're no longer permitted access. But power play, unequivocally, should only take place in Open. In a game where most of the content is player driven, allowing players to drastically affect the balance of power without any fear of real opposition is absolutely absurd. Pledging to a power and working to expand it's interests is essentially taking sides in a war. Why should you be able to take strategic action with no chance of being engaged by an enemy?

 

[Charlemagne42]

Personally, I don't think solo/PG should even be an option in the game. You have a starter area for new players. That should suffice to keep the gankers away while they learn the ropes. Maybe increase the ranks allowed before they're no longer permitted access.

I +rep'd your post because I agree with what you're saying, but from a pragmatic point of view, you aren't going to convince the majority of forum crawlers here that Open should be the only mode ever. I totally understand where you're coming from - the game is called Elite: Dangerous, after all, not Elite: Harmless - but now that people have a taste of Solo/PG, they're not going to let it go completely. And I think it's absurd to believe that Frontier would agree to remove all modes except Open.

It's much more realistic to say "if you want your actions to affect other people's game experiences, then you have to be in a mode where they can affect yours too." Because the principle here is one of symmetry. Currently, anyone in Solo/PG can have a disproportionate effect on the game experience of anyone in Open, whether by PowerPlay or by BGS. And there's nothing at all anyone in Open can do to stop it. The idea that activities which intrinsically bring player groups into conflict with each other should only be allowed to lead to player-vs-player ship-to-ship combat if all parties agree to have a battle is ridiculous. If one group is prepared to assert their firepower in a more literal sense than another, then that should be a valid way for that group to exert their influence on the galaxy. Instead, the unprepared group is allowed to dictate how the former is allowed to play the game, which is the very thought-crime of which they accuse Open-only advocates.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

 

[XanderVekk]

I'm not talking about changing the galaxy, just one game feature that nobody really cares about except to get special modules.

Move the power play modules to a tech broker or for sale in ShinDez.

Moving to solo removes your powerplay cargo and merits, it's gone. Whoops, go buy more and try that in open instead. Everyone's a quadrillionaire, you'll get over it.

Powerplay NPCs don't spawn in solo mode. Powerplay cargo is not sold in solo mode. Crime sweeps do not spawn in solo mode. There are no power contacts in solo mode. You cannot pledge or unpledge in solo mode.

Blocking other players doesn't work while carrying merits or a powerplay bounty, you will still instance with them.

 

[Captain Willard]

Would that be solo on pc? solo on xbox? solo on ps4?
Maybe it was PG groups on all of the above?
God forbid it was peeps in open when you weren't online or not in your instance.

 

[XanderVekk]

Would that be solo on pc? solo on xbox? solo on ps4?
Maybe it was PG groups on all of the above?
God forbid it was peeps in open when you weren't online.

Every major power has a strong presence on both consoles, so open only on consoles as well.

 

[redshirt4life]

Would that be solo on pc? solo on xbox? solo on ps4?
Maybe it was PG groups on all of the above?
God forbid it was peeps in open when you weren't online or not in your instance.

If you're asking if the rules should apply across platforms, the answer is yes. Obviously.

As for the last bit, sure, it's a possibility. I'm sure it's just happenstance that throughout a week of undermining a system, I saw exactly 0 enemy cmdrs. Different times, different days, not a single one. That aside, there are well documented cases of large player groups pledged to certain powers encouraging solo play. Even to the point where they'll condone combat logging and switching modes to avoid ship destruction.

By all means, tell me how that is in any way balanced.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Personally, I think a better Powerplay (if we are to keep what we have i.e iteration rather than ground up redesign) should fit tasks to modes, rather than make one task fit all modes:

Powerplay proposal: split tasks to suit each mode, elaborates on Sandros last ideas

Please be aware this suggestion has been superseded by more recent ones like this: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/powerplay-proposal-strong-anti-5c-mode-specific-plus-other-tweaks.552045/ For reference: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/powerplay-proposal.426940/#post6696898...

forums.frontier.co.uk

 

[Justinian Octavius]

Making Powerplay Open Only is largely pointless unless the Block Player function is changed to prevent players creating a Private Group instance via exploiting the function and station traffic control is reworked to prevent pad blocking. All in all it is not as easy as it seems and although it would be nice Powerplay has major mechanical issues that need solving first.

CMDR Justinian Octavius

 

[Bashy81]

Personally, I think a better Powerplay (if we are to keep what we have i.e iteration rather than ground up redesign) should fit tasks to modes, rather than make one task fit all modes:

Powerplay proposal: split tasks to suit each mode, elaborates on Sandros last ideas

Please be aware this suggestion has been superseded by more recent ones like this: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/powerplay-proposal-strong-anti-5c-mode-specific-plus-other-tweaks.552045/ For reference: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/powerplay-proposal.426940/#post6696898...

forums.frontier.co.uk

^^ This is the way, surely. Nothing wrong with Solo/PGers except those exploiting modes to avoid opposition & risk. Not that it wasnt tempting last cycle, i can assure you.

 

[AbslomRob]

Making Powerplay Open Only is largely pointless unless the Block Player function is changed to prevent players creating a Private Group instance via exploiting the function and station traffic control is reworked to prevent pad blocking. All in all it is not as easy as it seems and although it would be nice Powerplay has major mechanical issues that need solving first.

CMDR Justinian Octavius

Yeah, a change like Open Only (in any variation) would be good, but is a half-solution at best. Still better then the "no solution" we've been dealing with for several years, but not as good as what I hope (forlornly) is a more significant rework in the upcoming version. Powerplay was based on the technology and mechanics that existed in the original release, and there's a LOT of new stuff that could be (and should be) worked into Powerplay to make it more interesting the current "haul mindlessly/shoot mindlessly" activities.

 

[SergMx]

If you're asking if the rules should apply across platforms, the answer is yes. Obviously.

As for the last bit, sure, it's a possibility. I'm sure it's just happenstance that throughout a week of undermining a system, I saw exactly 0 enemy cmdrs. Different times, different days, not a single one. That aside, there are well documented cases of large player groups pledged to certain powers encouraging solo play. Even to the point where they'll condone combat logging and switching modes to avoid ship destruction.

By all means, tell me how that is in any way balanced.

+1
Moreover, many forget that there are instances in the Elite (I don’t know how to correctly translate this word). If EVERYTHING ALWAYS does not fall into one instant, then this makes no sense.

 

[redshirt4life]

+1
Moreover, many forget that there are instances in the Elite (I don’t know how to correctly translate this word). If EVERYTHING ALWAYS does not fall into one instant, then this makes no sense.

To be fair, it would take a very robust system to handle something like that. Instancing is necessary with the way game servers are set up (not just talking about Elite here). However, blocking a player should not have any effect on your ability to instance with them. The total number of instances should be pared down as well, with multiples only being created when there's heavy traffic in one system. Pitched battles between players should be the norm, not the exception.

 

[Bashy81]

+1
Moreover, many forget that there are instances in the Elite (I don’t know how to correctly translate this word). If EVERYTHING ALWAYS does not fall into Allone instant, then this makes no sense.

Instancing with everyone is not a prerequisite for Powerplay conflicts to work. Its not like a 4v4 arranged match where the result is effectively void if one person cant instance for some reason.
Powerplay is organic conflict, where the pieces on the board are what you have to work with and you behave accordingly. Pinching a kill against the odds is exhilarating, or running a gauntlet and making it through, is just as sweet. It genuinely doesnt matter if your Power has numerical advantage in a system, but you end up outnumbered in a particular instance.
That's true to RL conflicts anyway, where a massive numerical advantage doesnt necessarily translate to to the same in every pocket of the battle. The winning side can still be outnumbered and overwhelmed in some sectors, but still win overall. While this analogy can reflect the battles in PP, it doesnt represent the real drive behind PP conflicts. Its not about two fleets trying to destroy each other in a set-piece battle. The success or failure of an offensive in PP is not determined by kills, but by how much the defending side was able to achieve despite the PvP going on.
Instancing and platforms are part of the balance of power, they are strategic elements. Those who may choose to cheese router settings to achieve the same result, would be cheating, and would be very obvious by their invisible impact.

 

[SergMx]

Instancing with everyone is not a prerequisite for Powerplay conflicts to work.
...

I don’t know correctly, I understand YOU.
But it turns out those who are more and who are more organized will win against the minority. In this case, it doesn’t matter if it is solo or open.

 

[Bashy81]

I don’t know correctly, I understand YOU.
But it turns out those who are more and who are more organized will win against the minority. In this case, it doesn’t matter if it is solo or open.

I doubt you do understand me, but let me help a little; I hardly do any PvP outside Powerplay, and not a lot within it. I'm one of the leaders, such as we have, of a Power that stands to lose out pretty badly by any Open Only change. But we support OpenOnly as a principle because we appreciate that quality gameplay is far more important than self-interest.

It does matter which modes this kind of conflict takes place in. In Solo/PG it is a strategic grind, a pure numbers game. V stale and grindy and a weak relation of the BGS. In Open it is a dynamic, evolving battle of tactics & skill, which feeds-back directly into strategic choices. This is lost altogether when the Solo/PG opt-out is there for anyone.

 

[Cmdr Nemo]

First of all op and other's seem to forget that ED is played world wide. And assume everyone has a great internet connection available. Why should those of us that don't be punished from the ability to earn the modules available to anyone who does the work regardless of which mode. Most player's don't really give a hoot about the politics involved in pledging to one vs the other factions, the vast majority are only interested in the various mods available from performing the work. After all hauling 750 tons once a month can be done in Open as well as the other two modes.

 

[Justinian Octavius]

Not changing Powerplay because of Powerplay Modules is not a reason to not change Powerplay. The solution is making Powerplay Modules available via another method in game. Regardless, you do not need Powerplay Modules to play the game.

CMDR Justinian Octavius

 

[Cmdr Nemo]

Not changing Powerplay because of Powerplay Modules is not a reason to not change Powerplay. The solution is making Powerplay Modules available via another method in game. Regardless, you do not need Powerplay Modules to play the game.

CMDR Justinian Octavius

True enough, but until it changes, lambasting solo isn't really fair.