PP2.0 Trade Merits is broken, and gives vastly more if you trade one ton at a time.

Elpapo

Elpapo
WhiteHaulerMan said:
I'm not sure if English is your primary language or not
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No its not, and I dont really care if my english is "proper" or not, but average IQ person should be able to understood what I am sayin.

WhiteHaulerMan said:
However, this games playerbase has proven time and time again that if there is even the slightest advantage to be gained by pursuing 'the meta', they will do it and pursue it to the nth degree to min/max their gameplay, which in a shared environment, has knock-on effects for other players (both allies and rivals) and the game as a whole.
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I know about that, but I fail to see where any of that might apply on this topic - As "unfortunetly" about what we talkin here wich is: (one-ton-at-time) this as it is, hardly can be callled "meta", even within trade activities, as rare trading can yield 1k-2k merits more per hour than this, while it does not require staring at "sell menu" for hours and manually sell by ton at time. Surely an intresting oddity it is, but hardly meta candidate, even if macros would be used at it, or not.

Well, to be honest, this method (one-ton-at-time) is hardly worth doing it at all (IMO), but again I do not stop anyone from doing it if they wish to do so, neither is going become meta for given activity, that I can assure you.

Merits by doing trade like that (mere 10k/h by 1t each), while just by chessing SLF's for example, over 30k/hour merits can be earned - It does look quite pale in comparsion, but the other method is not quite risk-free/no-skill activity, its quite the opposite of that, I might add.
 

Ryan Murdoc

Ryan Murdoc
Dragsham said:
That's not bulk tax, that's just plain broken!


Does it apply to rares?
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Rares Commodities are currently calculated off the Total Income of a Sale, netting you 1 Merit every 1025cr.
Regular Commodities are currently calculated off the Net Profit of a Sale, requiring a Net Profit margin threshold of 40% to even qualify for gaining Merits. The Demand of a Station also dictates the amount of Merits gained, though with how miserable it is currently, doesn't make much of a difference.

I've been lucky enough to have a System nearby sporting a Infrastructure Failure, which means the prices for Commodities plummet to almost nothing for the duration of the State. Bought Imperial Slaves for 1600ish Credits per Unit (784 Units in my T9 for not even 1.3mil), and sold 1 System away for way over the 40% Net Profit needed. Bulk sale got me measly 338 Merits.

There needs to be a noticeable change, because this is literally crippling the Strength of those Powers that focus on Trading/Mining due to the respective advertised Bonuses. Speaking of Mining, the Ability to only gain Merits from Mining if you mine and sell in the same System is making me question how drunk someone was to have such Nonsense actually pass. Many Systems in the Bubble have very average to low Resource levels, and not everyone is into Deep Core Mining where that doesn't matter. Or the System doesn't even have any means to mine inside to begin with.
 

Three Stars

T
For what it’s worth, I sold a bunch of Sothis Crystalline Gold to a Fortified system well out of range of the source.

792 tons of it received 44276 merits, which is 55.904 merits per ton. I did this twice consecutively at the same station and it gave the exact same reward, so this just confirms there’s no supply and demand calculation going on here.

I then sold my remaining supply of 654 tons which gave me 36561 merits. That’s 55.9037 merits per ton. It’s safe to say that 55 merits is the base value for 1 ton of Sothis Crystalline Gold. This means that there’s a quantity based bonus that’s being added to the awarded merits. 792 tons of Special Sothis Stuff should only be giving 43,560 merits. Instead I got 716 extra merits for the first two transactions and 591 extra merits for the final transaction.
 

Elpapo

Elpapo
Three Stars said:
For what it’s worth, I sold a bunch of Sothis Crystalline Gold to a Fortified system well out of range of the source.

792 tons of it received 44276 merits, which is 55.904 merits per ton. I did this twice consecutively at the same station and it gave the exact same reward, so this just confirms there’s no supply and demand calculation going on here.

I then sold my remaining supply of 654 tons which gave me 36561 merits. That’s 55.9037 merits per ton. It’s safe to say that 55 merits is the base value for 1 ton of Sothis Crystalline Gold. This means that there’s a quantity based bonus that’s being added to the awarded merits. 792 tons of Special Sothis Stuff should only be giving 43,560 merits. Instead I got 716 extra merits for the first two transactions and 591 extra merits for the final transaction.
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Does it means, that if would wanna try selling rares by 1t at time, does it have any actuall benefit and its like no point to bother with 1t at time? So its just better to sell many rares as possible in single transation, far as rares trading goes?
 

WhiteHaulerMan

WhiteHaulerMan
Elpapo said:
Does it means, that if would wanna try selling rares by 1t at time, does it have any actuall benefit and its like no point to bother with 1t at time? So its just better to sell many rares as possible in single transation, far as rares trading goes?
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For someone who insults others Intelligence, you should be able to work that out for yourself. I suggest you get a calculator.
 

DemiserofD

D
Elpapo said:
Does it means, that if would wanna try selling rares by 1t at time, does it have any actuall benefit and its like no point to bother with 1t at time? So its just better to sell many rares as possible in single transation, far as rares trading goes?
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Essentially, it doesn't matter for rares. Nor mined minerals. Just goods bought from a station.
 

Elpapo

Elpapo
WhiteHaulerMan said:
For someone who insults others Intelligence, you should be able to work that out for yourself. I suggest you get a calculator.
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Glad to have constructive conversation with you! Sorry if your feelies got hurt, but ealier nonsense that you started to begin with, could not be left without reply.

But when someone ask a question, its rather rude to just went with "figure by yourself" as like just you did, so either keep such anwsers to yourself and stay silent, if you dont have anything else to add topic that this thread is about, as trying to continue this pointless "affair" it only makes you look even more... well.. nevermind.

DemiserofD said:
Essentially, it doesn't matter for rares. Nor mined minerals. Just goods bought from a station.
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Thanks for all input. This is really intresting oddity, the whole "1-ton-at-time" thing, it kinda reminds me how in X4, by doing transactions by one ton/unit at time, rather than in bulk, is actually one of easiest methods to gain rep with fractions in that game, and with like 150 units of anything, one can get easly that 20 rep with any race/fraction.
 
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Martind Forlon

Martind Forlon
It have a zero logic to have difference between bulk and 1t sell "mechanism". Personally I absolutely refuse to engage in such boring nonsense. In my book it is a clear exploit, and I hope that Frontier will soon take look on the most glaring problems in PP2. Players really should not have advantage gained such way ... :(
 

St0rmFury

St0rmFury
St0rmFury said:
I built a silent running dolphin intending to hack stronghold FCs, but real life got in the way & hadn't got the time to try it yet.
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I took it for a quick run yesterday with decent results.

The megaships have a row of 3 - 4 cargo bays on their side which you can scan once to reveal the subtarget limpet docking point. Once that's done, you just cycle through hacking each bay until there's nothing inside for 30 merits per hack.

This is done while silent running since even below 20% heat ships can still scan you, they just have to move closer. Silent running turns you almost invisible unless theyb happen to move really close to you.

Picking up the cargo is optional, I didn't bother because mostly are low value metals.

My run is only hampered by the rather small cargo hold off the dolphin, I'm planning to bring a bigger ship next for my next attempt.
 

JR250

J
Ian Doncaster said:
Doesn't seem to. Selling H-Fuel at 80cr/Tonne (bought at 84)
1-4 tonnes = 0 merits
5-8 tonnes = 1 merit
9-11 tonnes = 2 merits
(and then I ran out of cargo but I'm fairly sure I lost merits over just selling the lot at once)
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I'm late replying but can confirm these results as tested last week. Sold 720T of low-cost commodities (both at a profit and loss with no difference in merits results), incrementing by 1T from 1 to 20, then 25, 50, 100, 200, and all 720T. Definitely saw benefits of selling the entire lot at a time.

Here's hoping this indeed has an undermining effect as it's otherwise not worth it for the merits gained.
 

Ian Doncaster

Ian Doncaster
JR250 said:
Here's hoping this indeed has an undermining effect as it's otherwise not worth it for the merits gained.
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If you mean "has an undermining effect greater than the 10 merits you get from selling the cargo", no, no it does not. Barely worth the time it takes to click "buy hydrogen fuel" even if you were going that way anyway with spare hold space.
 

IstvaanDCIV

IstvaanDCIV
Martind Forlon said:
It have a zero logic to have difference between bulk and 1t sell "mechanism". Personally I absolutely refuse to engage in such boring nonsense. In my book it is a clear exploit, and I hope that Frontier will soon take look on the most glaring problems in PP2. Players really should not have advantage gained such way ... :(
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Does that method actually net one more merits per unit of time, though? Seems like selling off the contents of an single T-9 would take an awful long time that way. I think I've seen people saying it took them about an hour, which might be long enough to transport and sell off multiple shiploads in bulk instead.
 

Disemboweled Ego

D
IstvaanDCIV said:
Does that method actually net one more merits per unit of time, though? Seems like selling off the contents of an single T-9 would take an awful long time that way. I think I've seen people saying it took them about an hour, which might be long enough to transport and sell off multiple shiploads in bulk instead.
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It's probably not better than the most optimal rare trading, unless you have a lot of some super expensive commodity maybe that gives a lot of merits for that 1t transaction like titan samples or some mining stuff (that has been traded and doesn't pass the "mined" check) if those even count as trade. Haven't done any testing with those super valuable goods besides trying to mine and being forced to sell it off in the worst system for profits.
 

Cmdr Sylveste

C
I've just sold some stuff I picked up in a system in Infrastructure Failure.
7T of Palladium sold 1T at a time gave me 14 Merits/T (98 Merits). The remaining 7T sold in 1 lot gave me 39 Merits.
1T of Silver gave me 13 Merits, 2T was 19 Merits, 5T was 30 Merits. The remaining 100T gave me 134 Merits. Profit was 46k/T.
I think I would have lost the will to live selling all that 1T at a time, even though I would have received 10 times the number of merits.

Having to sell mined materials in the same system means that you have to put up with station demand levels, and the fact that the station may not normally trade the stuff you have means that the buy price will be low, and therefore reduce the merit award.
I've just done some mining in an undermining system (no pun intended) and the same principle applies.
I haven't been able to try selling mined resources in an acquisition system, because the system you mine in needs to be within 20/30 LY of the acquisition system.
I can't confirm whether it has to be a fortified or stronghold system. I'm in Kaine territory, and I haven't found any locations to test.
 

Kailoren

Kailoren
Has this been fixed or disabled again? I'm not getting any merits from selling CMM Composites in a reinforcement system even though the station on Inara is listed as PP sale bonus
 

Darrack

Darrack
Kailoren said:
Has this been fixed or disabled again? I'm not getting any merits from selling CMM Composites in a reinforcement system even though the station on Inara is listed as PP sale bonus
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Mind saying which station? we may be able to take a look

O7
 
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