News Premium Beta access update

[AnnuverScotinExile]

Want to make sure I understand this.

Once the beta phase starts, all new builds will be available to Alpha backers FIRST, for two weeks, before the beta backers are able to try it? So it's a fragmented beta process? Trying to understand if this is the case and if so what is the point.

This was a terrible piece of muddled and inconsistent PR from FD.

Announcements from folks that should know (Michael and David) were contradictory.

The consensus seems to be that there will be a two week gap between the alpha testers playing, and the beta following, for the first beta release. After that the expectation is that the gap will be a few hours maximum, unless something has gone pear shaped. That last point makes sense to me (but then I'm in the alpha) as a last minute piece of QA before they risk letting a gazillion people loose.

This lot has thus been further interpreted to mean that the current Alpha release (Alpha 4, but already up to the 4.03 dot version) is essentially the same thing as the premium beta. Even that has not been confirmed by FD, but it seems to be unlikely in the extreme that FD would just let the alpha backers into PB1 on 30th May, and make the beta backers wait 2 weeks: it would be a spectacular PR own goal.

Frankly, FD has been asked many times, and have gone out of their way to avoid clearing this up. Which from their end makes sense, since delivering against promises is so much easier when you don;t make any, or when the ones you make are so vague that they could mean almost anything.

So, watch this space.

 

[Pup]

I must admit the thought of the possibility of an 'up to two weeks' delay between seeing people stream the updates and getting my hands on it, sadly does put me off somewhat. I guess I'll just hold off and wait and see how it turns out in practice, then think about it again

 

[Rog]

The 2 week delay for beta backers was announced very late: April 1st (!) in Newsletter 18 as a means of selling more Alpha backer places. The current alpha 4 is essentially what the first premium beta build is supposed to be, just renamed as 'alpha'.

In the ensuing ruckus, FD (eventually) told us that the 'exclusive access period' would be 'a matter of hours'. This later turned out to be two weeks. The whole thing is definitely *not* what anyone previously thought 'premium beta' meant. Of course, standard beta and gamma backers will also be shunted down the queue. After a couple of weeks, Beta backers were allowed access to the original old alpha build from 2013 as a pacifier. Or 'gift' if you like.

My current understanding is that the delay will apply to *all* the beta builds, although FD have been rather vague on this.

How this will all turn out with different groups on different builds remains to be seen. Personally I think it's a divisive mess.

 

[Helios]

Two weeks delay for every build PB backers will "test"? (I should rather say "play" I suppose, since the testing has already been done and discussions are over when we get it. Seems more like a glorified Demo version than a test.)

Admittedly: Looking at what FD has achieved so far I can not bring myself to be really angry, considering they are making the game I've been waiting for so many years.
This doesn't change the fact however, that the communication in this matter from FD was a total failure and it certainly makes me sad.

EDIT: Would be glad if they were at least compensating for this by (re)opening an upgrade option from PB to Alpha level in their shop for those who already own PB.

 

[jinja]

Two weeks delay for every build PB backers will "test"? (I should rather say "play" I suppose, since the testing has already been done and discussions are over when we get it. Seems more like a glorified Demo version than a test.)

Admittedly: Looking at what FD has achieved so far I can not bring myself to be really angry, considering they are making the game I've been waiting for so many years.
This doesn't change the fact however, that the communication in this matter from FD was a total failure and it certainly makes me sad.

EDIT: Would be glad if they were at least compensating for this by (re)opening an upgrade option from PB to Alpha level in their shop for those who already own PB.

There are plenty more features to be implemented, and therefore 'tested'.

More features and ships, etc. also means there are many more permutations of in-game activity, etc. to be 'tested'.

As it seems FD have got a solid and active set of Alpha testers, and I paid substantially less than most of them, I really cannot see the problem with them getting their hands on releases 2 weeks before me as a Premium Beta tester (if this is the case after the Beta release, which seems unclear, and more likely to be a matter of "hours"). I would still experience the releases at the same rate as Alpha testers. I can, however, see the advantage to FD of using the smaller, already active, Alpha group, ahead of the Beta group, to first test new releases.

FD really do appear to be making great progress. If, as a Beta tester I can help this process, that's cool. If not, I will still be interested in seeing the game develop and improve, and enjoy the luxury of being able to practice and prepare for the Gamma release.

 

[Kris]

Nicely put, jinja. Agree completely.

 

[Hootmon]

Nicely put, jinja. Agree completely.

Plus 1

 

[Helios]

That is correct, although the time difference will depend on the build. When we prepare a new beta phase it will be tested in alpha first, fixes made as needed and then released into beta. The purpose is to make development and support for the phases easier for the team.

Michael

Uh, I suppose I might have misread you with regard to "phases".

So let me try to phrase a question about something that's not clear to me right now:

Essentially you differentiate between phases and builds. That means when Premium Beta Starts we will NOT recieve Alpha 4.00 or 4.01 (which one could read from your post IMHO), but the same version as Alpha-Backers.

However: When there is a big feature upgrade (like for example 5.0 or whatever it is called) there will be a two week delay between releasing it to Alpha-Backers and releasing it to PB-Backers. Thus not every build will be delayed by two weeks, but only new phases that add a lot of new stuff that potentially (temporarily) breaks things (for many or all or some ppl) that worked before?

This way you could get further feedback on things that worked before, whereas you would run the risk of loosing more feedback and "testing-capacity" if everyone got the same version?

That would be fine with me. Sorry if I misunderstood you. (I hope I did? ) I really had the impression that every build would be delayed by two weeks for PB-Backers.

 

[Rog]

There are plenty more features to be implemented, and therefore 'tested'.

More features and ships, etc. also means there are many more permutations of in-game activity, etc. to be 'tested'.

As it seems FD have got a solid and active set of Alpha testers, and I paid substantially less than most of them, I really cannot see the problem with them getting their hands on releases 2 weeks before me as a Premium Beta tester (if this is the case after the Beta release, which seems unclear, and more likely to be a matter of "hours"). I would still experience the releases at the same rate as Alpha testers. I can, however, see the advantage to FD of using the smaller, already active, Alpha group, ahead of the Beta group, to first test new releases.

FD really do appear to be making great progress. If, as a Beta tester I can help this process, that's cool. If not, I will still be interested in seeing the game develop and improve, and enjoy the luxury of being able to practice and prepare for the Gamma release.

Without wishing to open up an old/new argument, alpha backers paid to be in the alpha phase. This was delivered on time back in December. They are currently playing alpha 4, which is actually just a re-named beta 1.

Beta backers paid to be in the later beta phase which was supposed to land in January, but instead will land at the end of May, *after* being made to wait an additional and wholly artificial two weeks, for reasons nothing to do with testing.

It's not alright with me (and others), but since I have to lump it, there you go.

 

[Helios]

Beta backers paid to be in the later beta phase which was supposed to land in January, but instead will land at the end of May, *after* being made to wait an additional and wholly artificial two weeks, for reasons nothing to do with testing.

It's not alright with me (and others), but since I have to lump it, there you go.

Yea, I'm certainly not happy with that, as well. However I could live with it. If however every build would end up being delayed two weeks, thus witholding bugfixes to serious problems for reasons that make even less sense... that would most certainly be a different matter. :/

 

[Kris]

Beta backers paid to be in the later beta phase which was supposed to land in January, but instead will land at the end of May, *after* being made to wait an additional and wholly artificial two weeks, for reasons nothing to do with testing.

Disagree completely with the "wholly artificial" part.

I don´t think Alpha 4.00 would be ready for Premium Beta first build. Will current Alpha 4.03 be ready for 30th wider release? Don´t know. And we don´t know if Premium Beta players get the same build Alpha backers currently play - all thing point to that, but its still speculation.

I´m sure FD is working real hard, and Alpha backers are testing/playing, that the build they have on 31th would stand the much wider Premium Beta audience. Maybe i´m cautious, but we have to understand that its will be first Beta release, and first in this relatively wide scope.

 

[Helios]

IMHO everyone who signed up for any phase of beta should be aware that he he might end up with a broken piece of software. He should be aware that he is not playing a game, but rather testing something unfinished.

I do understand, that Alpha Backers paid more, but I most certainly do not understand that "PB backers couldn't cope with what we have endured up until now anyway. They have no awareness for what it means to test an unfinished product"-attitude that's floating all around here.

 

[usernametaken]

IMHO everyone who signed up for any phase of beta should be aware that he he might end up with a broken piece of software. He should be aware that he is not playing a game, but rather testing something unfinished.

Or do we? If the plan is to give the beta builds to the alpha backers for two weeks to shake out the bugs before beta gets it, it may well not be all that broken at all which somewhat misses the point of beta testers/testing.

I'm not really complaining but I certainly don't quite understand it.

 

[veep]

I thought the thing with the two-week delay was eventually resolved as a miscommunication to the effect that the premium beta build goes out (as it did) as alpha 4 two weeks earlier and every later build goes out a few hours earlier?

As to our current 2-week wait being unnecessary, I don't know. I do software development, if not game development, for a living and I can quite imagine them feeling okay giving that buggy alpha 4.0 build to a low number of backers who are already used to playing buggy alpha stuff whereas the thousands (?) of beta players might be a different story.

 

[Helios]

Or do we? If the plan is to give the beta builds to the alpha backers for two weeks to shake out the bugs before beta gets it, it may well not be all that broken at all which somewhat misses the point of beta testers/testing.

I'm not really complaining but I certainly don't quite understand it.

Yea, that's the problem that remains. Signing up for a Beta test (premium or not) I suppose one may expect to be testing the product and not demo what has been tested and ironed out.

 

[Teefur]

Yea, I'm certainly not happy with that, as well. However I could live with it. If however every build would end up being delayed two weeks, thus witholding bugfixes to serious problems for reasons that make even less sense... that would most certainly be a different matter. :/

I honestly thought this had been cleared up and that the 2 week delay was only this current one. The artificial 2 week delay until the end of May was irritating, but I let it slide. If every build has that same 2 week delay, what then is the point of being a "beta tester"?

What is the point of putting out a 2 week old, known buggy build if there is a new bug-fixed build just around the corner? If that is the route the beta phase is taking then the beta-testers will need to have focused targets to test, targeted around suspected weak points. But then, if those bugs are still present in the new build, what use is our testing against the old build when we don't know how the dynamics might have changed in the new build?

If there is a new build within the 2 weeks, does the clock reset at that build and we have to wait 2 weeks to get that build, with no point in giving us the old build as it's now obsolete?

I didn't sign up for beta to pointlessly fart about in a known buggy build, I signed up to help FD test the game in development.

 

[Kris]

I do understand, that Alpha Backers paid more, but I most certainly do not understand that "PB backers couldn't cope with what we have endured up until now anyway. They have no awareness for what it means to test an unfinished product"-attitude that's floating all around here.

I don´t think its general attitude, at least in my opinion. Haven´t seen it much. Personally i´m not Alpha backer, and only couple of days ago bought Premium Beta (but have been following forum and development since Kickstarter).

I think main issue is, to quote Michael, "to make development and support for the phases easier for the team.". That´s the most important.

 

[noodle]

IMHO everyone who signed up for any phase of beta should be aware that he he might end up with a broken piece of software. He should be aware that he is not playing a game, but rather testing something unfinished.

I do understand, that Alpha Backers paid more, but I most certainly do not understand that "PB backers couldn't cope with what we have endured up until now anyway. They have no awareness for what it means to test an unfinished product"-attitude that's floating all around here.

I think it arises from the prevailing preconceptions around alpha and beta phases, where alpha is expected to be a very raw product, and beta is expected to be bug testing a nearly finished game.

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

Or do we? If the plan is to give the beta builds to the alpha backers for two weeks to shake out the bugs before beta gets it, it may well not be all that broken at all which somewhat misses the point of beta testers/testing.

I'm not really complaining but I certainly don't quite understand it.

Every alpha build to date has been riddled with bugs. Hardly a surprise. if you think that in a 2 week period FD will sort out all the bugs, so it is clean for the beta backers, then you really don't understand software development. There are bugs in alpha 4 that we spotted weeks or even months ago in earlier versions of the alpha.

The alpha forum is full of posts with people worried about the support issues of letting the betas loose on software with so many bugs.

Yea, that's the problem that remains. Signing up for a Beta test (premium or not) I suppose one may expect to be testing the product and not demo what has been tested and ironed out.

I refer you to the answer I gave earlier.

Bottom line is that there will be plenty of bugs for you to catch.

 

[usernametaken]

then you really don't understand software development.

I've worked as a software engineer for 24 years. I have a very good understanding of software development, 15 of those years were spent in the games industry.