∞ probes?

[Vorxian]

FDEV made (rather cool at that) the scanning mechanic way more fiddly, than just point nose at destination, get in range and wait.

Because of the nature of the probe thing and the mechanics of it all tying in.. I think if you had to also grind for the materials to explore, then it'll change the nature of exploration for the worst. I know from personal experience, when I have infinite of something I'll use it, all the time. IF i had finite probes, I'd be a lot more picky and really only 'explore' systems that yielded the greater reward.. this cherry picking is BAD for exploration. My own OCD for completeness would create an internal rift arguing inwardly about systems to ignore and ones to use up valuable probes on.

Nah infinite probes is the way forward. For me personally, finite probes would detract from the purpose. There are way more glaringly stupid gamey mcgame wavium mechanics that people love, so, this to me is a minor thing, but on the side of good.

/Vx

 

[bitstorm]

FDEV made (rather cool at that) the scanning mechanic way more fiddly, than just point nose at destination, get in range and wait.

Because of the nature of the probe thing and the mechanics of it all tying in.. I think if you had to also grind for the materials to explore, then it'll change the nature of exploration for the worst. I know from personal experience, when I have infinite of something I'll use it, all the time. IF i had finite probes, I'd be a lot more picky and really only 'explore' systems that yielded the greater reward.. this cherry picking is BAD for exploration. My own OCD for completeness would create an internal rift arguing inwardly about systems to ignore and ones to use up valuable probes on.

Nah infinite probes is the way forward. For me personally, finite probes would detract from the purpose. There are way more glaringly stupid gamey mcgame wavium mechanics that people love, so, this to me is a minor thing, but on the side of good.

/Vx

Since you're in the OCD hardcore scan everything explorer group, any thoughts on this : https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/451413-probes?p=7110816&viewfull=1#post7110816

Finite without crafting?

 

[Stigbob]

Is 10% a number too small to be taken seriously?

It's just that the entire poll is way less than 10% of ED's player base so, y'know....

Its a number far too small to dictate to everyone else.

 

[Rat Catcher]

I don't care about infinite probes, I just want to play this fantasy space game where I drive around the galaxy exploring, trading, mining and ferrying passengers - all in my fantasy ships, all of which will be stocked with infinite probes which I'll accept without question just because it is a fantasy game.

I really struggle to understand how something so trivial could generate so much diverse content - It's fascinating to follow!

 

[Vorxian]

Since you're in the OCD hardcore scan everything explorer group, any thoughts on this : https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/451413-probes?p=7110816&viewfull=1#post7110816

Finite without crafting?

To be fair though, if INFINITE wasn't a thing, I'd quickly back that idea.
Infinite is convenient, and hassle free... but if there was a probe contingent 'plasma' or something that had to be scooped to fuel a probe cannon or something, not crafted... then you can count me in.

It's a perfect alternative though so +1

 

[Siobhan]

Some people just can't be happy unless someone else is inconvenienced.

 

[NeilF]

Your "average trader" shouldn't be dropping in on Distress Calls. They're traders, not Rescue Rangers. You wouldn't pull up to a raging forest fire in a fuel tanker and say "Hey, I'm here to help."

You don't think the gameplay currently offered to traders could be improved with the possibility of stopping off to help a fellow trader in distress? You don't think this could offer just a tad more variation and depth to the experience?

I mean, to use your type of example, but a maybe more fair and realistic one? If was in a truck carrying supplies from X to Y, and spotted a similar truck broken down seemingly also on the way to Y, I really might just pull over and say "Hey, I'm here to help."

 

[bitstorm]

Some people just can't be happy unless someone else is inconvenienced.

Are you reading the current suggestions though?

There's some discussion about non inconveniencing solutions.

 

[Julio Montega]

You don't think the gameplay currently offered to traders could be improved with the possibility of stopping off to help a fellow trader in distress? You don't think this could offer just a tad more variation and depth to the experience?

I mean, to use your type of example, but a maybe more fair and realistic one? If was in a truck carrying supplies from X to Y, and spotted a similar truck broken down seemingly also on the way to Y, I really might just pull over and say "Hey, I'm here to help."

Agreed, sadly the shady side of that is not in for the players.
I cannot lay in wait with my modded Keelback, asking for your help
and then robbing you.

What really puzzles me, is that we cannot read out the mass of the ships
"in" an USS with our HiFi scanners, adding skill to spotting traps
and adding thought to using sensor clutter (chaff/ejected cargo/debris)
to mask the signature.

 

[bitstorm]

To be fair though, if INFINITE wasn't a thing, I'd quickly back that idea.
Infinite is convenient, and hassle free... but if there was a probe contingent 'plasma' or something that had to be scooped to fuel a probe cannon or something, not crafted... then you can count me in.

It's a perfect alternative though so +1

Cheers for taking the time to read that, and actually having a think about it.

 

[NeilF]

To be fair though, if INFINITE wasn't a thing, I'd quickly back that idea.
Infinite is convenient, and hassle free... but if there was a probe contingent 'plasma' or something that had to be scooped to fuel a probe cannon or something, not crafted... then you can count me in.

It's a perfect alternative though so +1

It may or may not be a better solution (although I like the notion personally of fuel scooping rings or gas giants for probes). But, as you've pointed out, and demonstrated, there's no harm in simply talking about such alternatives. You never know they may prove of interest or indeed even of use to others.

Some people just can't be happy unless someone else is inconvenienced.

I'm bemused by the amount of strawmen being built in this thread

If you look through the posts of folks seemingly favour of a finite probe solution, I suspect you'll see a couple of things really not in keeping with your accusation:-
1) They are being polite and simply discussing around a shared opinion and topic.
2) They are not declaring, pitch fork in hand, "We know what is right!"

So please be fair about this! It's just a few folks spitballing some ideas around of what if There's really nothing productive about jumping into a conversation you're otherwise not taking part in, just to make make unfair accusations?

I'm absolutely OK with probes being infinite, but that doesn't stop me wondering what the alternative might be... And simply talking about them.

 

[Julio Montega]

Cheers for taking the time to read that, and actually having a think about it.

Regarding your suggestion i'd like to change probes this way:

- Probes no longer crash, except for plotting the wrong orbit or having their flightpath go through a planetary ring or reading the gravity wrong/ having an anomaly around -> skill evolvement
- Probes use their FSD fuel to enter the plotted orbit and map the area on their flight path, returning to ship after circumnavigation
- A returned probe will require refuelling via scoopable items, the most basic one being hydrogen ship fuel from the tank
- A lost probe can be replenished by:
ammo refilling at a station
probe transfer by players
retrieval of intact left behind probes from USS
retrieval of parts from destroyed probes -> cheap resynthesis
resynthesizing the whole probe

Additional scoopable gasses from clouds, nebulae or gas giants could be used like jumponium
increasing probe flight performance allowing a lower orbit on high-g worlds -> bigger scan area

 

[Micha]

FD originally said 200. Absolutely no-one apart from you has thought 10 probes or hours of searching.

Not in this thread (afaik), no. But context, mate, context. I said the comments on that YouTube poll. And (at the time), it was the third or fourth comment from the top.

 

[andrewg_oz]

Never going to happen. Because that would make an internal market for materials between players.

Like cargo?

 

[Bardolin]

Yes now in hindsight you can see a mismatch between the description and the options. Did many people read that blurb, or just go with the options? I'm guessing a low percentage read that (it is a guess).

All I can really say is the options as written offer a choice between infinite and/or craftable.

You can say the options were badly written but that's what they said at the time people voted.

It is literally (as in LITERALLY) a poll between infinite and/or craftable.


But either way I'm not massively bothered, it's not me who keeps waving it around as though it's some ruling from on high, in an attempt to stop discussion.

I've always said I think the poll isn't worth much, given no-one's tried exploration yet.

Just because you don't like the results of that one poll doesn't mean you should imply the people that voted in it are incapable of reading the premise the same way as you've been doing to sustain your criticism.

 

[Jack Schitt]

Post #64. And Genar-Hofoen suggested his interstellar dust solution even earlier in post #53. I prefer rings as they require a modicum of active gameplay and player choice, but at the end of the day it's all mere justification for a decision already made.

The only problem with anything like that is it still leaves you with a giant inconsistency related to why this magical new scanner is the only module capable of this.

That's the very rabbit hole to which I was referring here:

[...]other than whataboutery comparing other aspects of material collection and synthesis which can also be levelled at the ring solution. But that's ultimately an argument for consistency across the whole of ED's lore and gameplay, and that's one hell of a rabbit hole to go down over something as minor as planetary probes.

I've seen too many people disappear down that rabbit hole, which has existed in one form or another since long before planetary probes were a twinkle in their mysterious invisible launch tubes. Solutions to the probe problem may deepen it a little, but I'm still happy to walk past and acknowledge its presence without necessarily sticking my head in and doing an Alice.

If everything else in the ED universe was internally consistent I'd have more reservations about including something which broke that consistency. But given that it isn't, I have no problem with infinite probes and would have even less problem with them if FD endorsed into lore a simple concept that helped to explain them, even if that explanation deepened the rabbit hole a bit further.

If FD fill in the rabbit hole first, then I'll start to worry about anything that might create another one. But I don't think FD has nearly enough earth. That hole is here to stay.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

IMHO, 200 probes would have been too low anyway.

1000 probes would work (if easily craftable), but we still have the issue of non horizon users who didn't pack a mining laser who are already out exploring.
Although, I can't see that being any sort of majority, especially with the dropping of Mac support in 3.3(?) (Who could never have horizons on their silly machines!).

I don't mind roaming planets for a nice break from endless supercruise when I'm out exploring. I'm going to land and drive around regardless, so gathering of mats isn't a big deal unless they required some rare or manufactured materials.

 

[Red Anders]

Would you class scooping from a gas giant, ring, or one of the fancy gas cloud things backtracking?

Not sure I would because it's so closely tied to existing explorer activities. And you could say under the new system there'll be a lot less flying around, scooping from something just adds a bit of flying back in.

There's probably even an argument to say it's a needed extension to exploration, as I've said I WANT to scoop from gas giants, just as a thing, nothing to do with probes. This seems almost an excuse to add that in.

I mean just scoop and probes auto-build, no crafting, no SRV, don't even have to come out of supercruise.

I'd suggest that adding a mechanic so simplistic would add nothing of significance in terms of gameplay, at which point it becomes a meaningless timesink created to give the impression of complexity where none is required. But hey, that's opinions for you.

 

[bitstorm]

Just because you don't like the results of that one poll doesn't mean you should imply the people that voted in it are incapable of reading the premise the same way as you've been doing to sustain your criticism.

If you want a legit reply to that I can dm you if you want.

Not going to reply here though because it's a topic that's not very helpful for the discussion.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

I'd suggest that adding a mechanic so simplistic would add nothing of significance in terms of gameplay, at which point it becomes a meaningless timesink created to give the impression of complexity where none is required. But hey, that's opinions for you.

B...but... mah <Yamiks> IIIIIIMMMMMMUUUURRRRRRSSSSSHHHHHHUUUUUNZZZZ! </Yamiks>