Sure, fine. But probes were going to require mats, and then people complained and talked Frontier out of it. And in my opinion the probe mechanic would be *better* if it used materials. The main reason people give for why probes *shouldn't* use materials, basically boils down to "collecting mats sucks." Which is no more valid in this instance than any other, so it shouldn't even count as a reason.
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Dude you don't need probes to explore either. Planetary mapping is optional you can do everything you used to be able to do with just the Discovery Scanner now.
Good idea! You know, I was originally going to NOT take a look tomorrow and NOT see how big a deal it is, but now . . .
Presumably anyone interested in planetary scanning mechanics is interested in planetary scanning (angry game ex-boyfrends are thankfully an exception) so everyone in this thread has already opted in to using probes.
Just not the hugely unpopular compulsorily crafted ones.
I think the argument was more nuanced than that, and there were multiple reasons.
So you're in the middle of nowhere, and you use the FSS, and spot a crazy looking planet which has some "unknown features" on it...? Yes, you need probes
I think FD needs to change the complete material prospecting mechanics at all.
Most of game loops require collecting material:
- Guardians
- Engineers
- Synthesis: AFMU, FSD range, better Ammo and so on.
Now a great part of the player base is against limited ammo mostly because they don't want to collect materials on planets, even if it's just about collecting very common ones...
If this is true it means that a great part (most of it?) of the player base does not enjoy the game loops. So I guess this thread highlighted another area of the game that requries massive improvement. This is something that FD should consider for the next big update!
Most of game loops require collecting material:
- Guardians
- Engineers
- Synthesis: AFMU, FSD range, better Ammo and so on.
Now a great part of the player base is against limited ammo mostly because they don't want to collect materials on planets, even if it's just about collecting very common ones...
If this is true it means that a great part (most of it?) of the player base does not enjoy the game loops. So I guess this thread highlighted another area of the game that requries massive improvement. This is something that FD should consider for the next big update!
Only a sith deals in absolutes.
I think a big part is how, again, there is no risk or challenge in finding mats. There are beautiful planets, mats, a way to get them. But FD forgot to add the gameplay bit. Why, for example, is there zero risk in driving on a planet that is so close to the star the SRV should melt in seconds? So with the new lightning changes it shoukd now look hotter/cooler, but when will it ever effect the game?
If you need 10 units of Yttrium to get some bonus feature will you enjoy the need to look for a HMC planet, land on it, spend 15 minutes shooting at rocks and scooping with the SRV?
I do enjoy it when it's not a grind.. so I can get what I need in reasonable time (let's say 15 minutes). I don't like it when I have to spend 15 minutes just to understand where I can get what I need and then I have to spend one hour just for a one-time bonus.
I don't like it in NMS: everytime the ship takes off it burns 25% of fuel. Every 4 take-offs you need to collect materials again and again. To be balanced the fuel tank should allow at least 10 take-offs.
It's my understanding from the infinite probes discussion that a lot of players don't enjoy this kind of process at all.
I dislike it yes.
It's not as bad as it was since you get 3 units per find, and the material trader means your involvement has to be minimal so it can be overlooked. But that's only because there's now less requirement to do it, not because the mechanic itself is any better.
Material gathering is essentially driving around (let's be honest) dull and uninteresting terrain, in an unstable vehicle that seems built to do a 180 at the slightest bump, for hours on end trying to find what you need. It is simply not a good expierience, I struggle to see how anyone can find enjoyment in it.
It might be worth noting at this point that the SRV waveform mechanic doesn't really do much to improve things, sure it's a "thing" but I don't really think it adds must interest to material gathering. If the HUD said "metallic meteorite" over there instead of the waveform, I honestly don't think it would make any difference, if anything it'd mean less frustration.
I suppose the new exploration is the same, except you now have a telescope in your SRV so you don't have to drive there. Whether it's gonna be fun though, we still have to see.
Yeah to be honest I can't help thinking the inifinite probes thing is mainly a reaction to the above, that as soon as you mention crafting, you imply material gathering and once you're there people are like "please no!".
It's a real shame OA put crafting in the options, I mean every time you see crafting mentioned in this thread you can see the negativity.
Generally the SRV really needs an overhaul, just make it fun to drive fer God's sake, people want to tear over planet surfaces at high speed, not bumble along being randomly turned 180 every few minutes so you have to stop. I'm still hoping Q4 will included a new SRV addressing this. Alternatively give an SLF the SRV toolset if need be.
I also wonder if perhaps scooping shouldn't become a whole new way of material gathering, then people have the option to sidestep SRV gathering.
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It was the engineers, and the material grind/gameplay for it, that really drove me away from that aspect of the game TBH!
I think alot of people found it far from ideal, so I suspect any suggestion of more RND material collection for probes could ring alarm bells for folks...
Why are people bothered about 'spamming' planets with probes? Do I assume that those who bring it up have no intention of doing so and entirely disapprove of others doing so? Surely how I play MY game is my business, particularly if it doesn't affect anyone else directly? where's the issue?
If FDev take away the infinity symbol and just let the visible recharge mechanic carry on regardless then each of us could have an interpretation of how that bar gets refilled.
Infinite as a concept is contentious, as proven by the last 114 pages here, but how can FDev please everyone when it seems so many have 'perfect solutions' that are negated by another's equally 'perfect solution' - ad nauseum... (I was going to put 'ad infinitum' but would have been contradictory to use such )
The crazy thing is that I agree with many of the solutions posted as plausible, indeed laudable, and as I have no solution to offer can only think to myself, "unlimited" is simplest.
Tomorrow we play with our new toys, let's see how much sh*t is hitting the fan in a couple of weeks
If FDev take away the infinity symbol and just let the visible recharge mechanic carry on regardless then each of us could have an interpretation of how that bar gets refilled.
Infinite as a concept is contentious, as proven by the last 114 pages here, but how can FDev please everyone when it seems so many have 'perfect solutions' that are negated by another's equally 'perfect solution' - ad nauseum... (I was going to put 'ad infinitum' but would have been contradictory to use such
)The crazy thing is that I agree with many of the solutions posted as plausible, indeed laudable, and as I have no solution to offer can only think to myself, "unlimited" is simplest.
Tomorrow we play with our new toys, let's see how much sh*t is hitting the fan in a couple of weeks
Do we know anything about the "geological" locations / signal sources now present on the surface and identified via scanning / mapping?
Maybe these could be the solution to this "I hate crafting because I have mat gathering" conundrum. Targetable places with mats galore. Obviously a band-aid solution, but if it's easy to do and pleases some of the players, why not?
Maybe these could be the solution to this "I hate crafting because I have mat gathering" conundrum. Targetable places with mats galore. Obviously a band-aid solution, but if it's easy to do and pleases some of the players, why not?
Surface locs will have lots of mats, tell us how it helps the non-Horizons players / those out exploring w/o SRVs plz
It's the age old philosophical debate about what a multiplayer video game represents.
Here, replace the "'spamming' planets with probes" with "combat logging":
Now, would that paragraph cause some acid replies here on the forum... ?
Before you say that combat and exploration are two totally different things, let me remind you that the first discovered tag, the first mapped tag and all the credits that come from these bonuses do very much affect everyone else directly.
Or someone who just lost their last SRV. Making space exploration dependent on a 4 wheeled vehicle doesn't seem ideal.
Right, didn't think about that... that's what I get for having my mind in two places at once. Back to work for me!
Why are people bothered about 'spamming' planets with probes? Do I assume that those who bring it up have no intention of doing so and entirely disapprove of others doing so? Surely how I play MY game is my business, particularly if it doesn't affect anyone else directly? where's the issue?
If FDev take away the infinity symbol and just let the visible recharge mechanic carry on regardless then each of us could have an interpretation of how that bar gets refilled.
Infinite as a concept is contentious, as proven by the last 114 pages here, but how can FDev please everyone when it seems so many have 'perfect solutions' that are negated by another's equally 'perfect solution' - ad nauseum... (I was going to put 'ad infinitum' but would have been contradictory to use such
The crazy thing is that I agree with many of the solutions posted as plausible, indeed laudable, and as I have no solution to offer can only think to myself, "unlimited" is simplest.
Tomorrow we play with our new toys, let's see how much sh*t is hitting the fan in a couple of weeks
I'll just repost my comment from before:-
...It's not the speed of probe generation. It's the planning/consideration/management of their generation.
A scenario again (based on a mechanic where you fuel scoop in a metalic ring for say 10-20 seconds to regen all your probes). I'm in a system, and via the FSS spot a rocky planet with some POIs on it, so decide to head off to it to "probe it". HOWEVER, I also notice there's a ringed planet in the system, and by looking at the orrery map (I'm not doing much else in SC), I realise this ringed planet in basically enroute. Do I stop off there on the way to "fuel scoop" there to generate more probes? Or do I wait for another system (I've still got 50!).
That's where you are going wrong, people like the idea of infinite probes.
There are no wider implications beyond that.
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