∞ probes?

[Tarman]

It's the heroes journey and it actually started with Jason and the Argonauts (never read Plato) but I did watch that film as a kid.


Because the Federation (at least in Gene Roddenberry's hands), had higher morals than the sneaky Romulans / Klingons.

Oh yeah for sure. When Roddenberry was alive the writers were not allowed to write main story crew stuff that contained dissent; Starfleet officers were always paragons of teamwork and any one-episode outliers were dealt with by the end of the episode. No lasting grudges against the captain for stealing your date.

Also, Ray Harryhausen anything movie would be on, I would be watching it. Stop motion animation ftw.

 

[Micha]

Hey, what's going on? I get on this morning and the infinite probe thread isn't in the top-three new posts. Let alone on the first page! You guys all slacking or what, this way we'll never get to 200 pages!

Not sure I agree something that takes you away is automatically grind. Grind is having to do a repetitive task, material gathering in any number is a grind.

Taking you away from what you're trying to do is breaking your "flow".

I'm also disappointed people consider having to restock probes as "grind". For years people complain about "mile wide inch deep" gameplay, but the second FDev *try* to deepen the gameplay loops, people scream "grind". I thought it was all nicely tieing together various existing bits of gameplay, and had the potential to provide reason to introduce new gameplay/assets into the game which could then later be fleshed out with other content.

The difference between "grind" and "gameplay" to me is having to do one thing over and over and over just to achieve a single objective. In this case I don't think it applies because having to spend a few minutes gathering materials (in some way shape or form) every few days is hardly "grind".

It's not like having to drop into 100 HGE's just to find the mats needed to finish G5'ing your FSD. That really is grind, because you first have to cruise a system hoping against hope you come across a HGE, and then finding the rare mat in it that you need.

Contrast to the proposed mat gathering for probes (iron, sulphur, etc), which spawns *immediately* when landing on *any* planetary surface; pops up almost immediately when shooting any asteroid, and *could* be added free-floating to any number of new content. Hardly a grind, is it?

----

(Can't wait for the beta tonight! Bummed out I have something else on so won't be able to try it till late.. when do they usually drop; in the morning of the day, or later?)

 

[CMDR_Halceon]

I haven't been reading this thread, but for some reason I feel compelled to post on page 121 to say that, all things considered, I think I would enjoy finite, but synthesizable, probes.

Although I can understand why others wouldn't.

Strange compulsion lifted...

 

[Stealthie]

I'm also disappointed people consider having to restock probes as "grind". For years people complain about "mile wide inch deep" gameplay, but the second FDev *try* to deepen the gameplay loops, people scream "grind". I thought it was all nicely tieing together various existing bits of gameplay, and had the potential to provide reason to introduce new gameplay/assets into the game which could then later be fleshed out with other content.

The difference between "grind" and "gameplay" to me is having to do one thing over and over and over just to achieve a single objective. In this case I don't think it applies because having to spend a few minutes gathering materials (in some way shape or form) every few days is hardly "grind".

An insightful observation. [up]

What I've been doing (trying to find Pattern Epsilon data to unlock the Guardian SLFs) is grind.
I want to unlock the SLFs so I have to do the same thing over and over to achieve that.

Resupplying your ship regularly during an exploration trip isn't grind. It's just... sensible.
Your ship uses fuel, you collect more.
Your SRV uses fuel, you collect more.
Your FSD uses jumponium, you collect more.
Your AFMU uses ammo, you create more.
Your HSL uses ammo, you create more.
You use repair limpets, you create more.

As I've already said, I'd really like it if there were more reasons to stop off at planets (or rings) to resupply.
Which is not to say I want to spend more time collecting mats.
I'd like for the overall requirement for mat's to be reduced but the things they're needed for to be diversified,

Right now, you can build a ship and know that you can, pretty-much, circumnavigate the entire galaxy without having to worry about resupplying, other than scooping fuel and that's kind of "shallow".
It'd be nice if you knew that every couple of thousand Ly you were going to have to use all these fancy new tools to start looking for specific types of planet so you could find some rare mat' to restore your FSD (for example) to full capacity.

Kind of like how ships in the Star Trek universe are constantly (whenever the plot requires it) having to find replacement dilithium crystals or top up their deuterium fuel.

 

[akaliel]

Contrast to the proposed mat gathering for probes (iron, sulphur, etc), which spawns *immediately* when landing on *any* planetary surface; pops up almost immediately when shooting any asteroid, and *could* be added free-floating to any number of new content. Hardly a grind, is it?

It is, because it enforces an unnecessary departure from gameplay for the sake of adding more time to what your doing. It is neither interesting, nor enjoyable. The AMFU ammo keeps the device from being overpowered. It gives it a limit so we're not invincable. Jumponium mats are necessary to make the super jumps rare and require careful thought when to use them. Repair Limpets for the same reason as the AMFU. But Probe crafting. I can't think of a single useful reason for it. Clearly Adam felt the same way when he was testing values. It was a pointless exercise, forcing us to divert away from exploring. In short, crafting probes did not improve the game.

 

[Stigbob]

Yeah that's on the list of my many gripes with supercruise. Even with travelling at many times the speed of light it feels like a slow, boring walk down the street to your buddy Jeffrey's house.

"Hi Jeffrey."
"Hey man, what took you so long, you left like an hour ago."
"Yeah.... Sorry Jeffrey."

Space is big.

 

[Kaocraft]

Great, with your idea if we run out of probes we will all have to fly around trying to find systems with the right ringed planets, then fly BACK to the system we want to map - yeah that is great gameplay

As for your concept of speed, let me tell you a little story: I was lucky enough to have a flight in an F-111, we went ballistic to 30,000ft (the pilot was seeing if I would throw up, I didn't ) and cruised at Mach 2.23 - that didn't feel fast. Then we dived down, and did a simulated bombing run with the TFR set to 100 ft at 450 KIAS - that felt fast. So your little 'oh I feel fast cos I am near something' is just a visual effect, nothing more nothing less.

P.S. Are you going to report this post for not being on topic?

Glad you weren't at the meeting when they were deciding on fuel scooping.

 

[tafkabb]

When I went to the far side of the Perseus Fade it took 15 premium synthesis jumps out, and 15 premium synthesis jumps back. I had to collect the arsenic, niobium and polonium I needed while I was crossing. Its my favourite ever trip; I didn't even know if the route I took was possible. Collecting mats for it was an integral part of the journey, and I wouldn't change a thing. I loved it.
But I do love the SRV, so mats collecting is fun for me. I can see how, for other players, it isn't.

But I can also see the need for infinite probes - there are explorers out there who don't want to become suddenly hamstrung by mats requirements, or they might not even have an SRV.

tl;dr I'm not bothered either way. Hope that helps.

 

[GunnerBill]

When I went to the far side of the Perseus Fade it took 15 premium synthesis jumps out, and 15 premium synthesis jumps back. I had to collect the arsenic, niobium and polonium I needed while I was crossing. Its my favourite ever trip; I didn't even know if the route I took was possible. Collecting mats for it was an integral part of the journey, and I wouldn't change a thing. I loved it.
But I do love the SRV, so mats collecting is fun for me. I can see how, for other players, it isn't.

But I can also see the need for infinite probes - there are explorers out there who don't want to become suddenly hamstrung by mats requirements, or they might not even have an SRV.

tl;dr I'm not bothered either way. Hope that helps.

This. TBH collecting mats for jumponium was the only thing that kept me sane on the journey to Beagle Point.

I don't quite get why probes need to be infinite though seeing as some other pretty basic stuff isn't... Heat Sinks for example.

But hey-ho!

 

[VR SenseiMatty]

Right now, you can build a ship and know that you can, pretty-much, circumnavigate the entire galaxy without having to worry about resupplying, other than scooping fuel and that's kind of "shallow".
It'd be nice if you knew that every couple of thousand Ly you were going to have to use all these fancy new tools to start looking for specific types of planet so you could find some rare mat' to restore your FSD (for example) to full capacity.

Yeah that's my point for Finite Probes. We should have a nice stock (1000 - 2000) so that we don't need to refill them too much frequently, but still we need to stop time to time to gather what we need to continue the journey. If it's not for the probes it should be for something else.

When I went to the far side of the Perseus Fade it took 15 premium synthesis jumps out, and 15 premium synthesis jumps back. I had to collect the arsenic, niobium and polonium I needed while I was crossing. Its my favourite ever trip; I didn't even know if the route I took was possible. Collecting mats for it was an integral part of the journey, and I wouldn't change a thing. I loved it.
But I do love the SRV, so mats collecting is fun for me. I can see how, for other players, it isn't.

But I can also see the need for infinite probes - there are explorers out there who don't want to become suddenly hamstrung by mats requirements, or they might not even have an SRV.

tl;dr I'm not bothered either way. Hope that helps.

I agree, I also enjoyed looking for jumponium to extend my jump range to the bottom of the galaxy on my last trip.
That's why I would like to have 2 types of DSS, a basic one that requires restock and an advanced one with unlimited.

Restock should be possible both way:
1. land on planets and collect common materials
2. scoop from asteroids inside the gas giants rings (this would cover non-horizons players)

 

[Stigbob]

This. TBH collecting mats for jumponium was the only thing that kept me sane on the journey to Beagle Point.

I don't quite get why probes need to be infinite though seeing as some other pretty basic stuff isn't... Heat Sinks for example.

But hey-ho!

The most popular option on OA's poll was a mix, infinite basic probes and craftable superior ones. That satisfies both infinite and finite supporters totally, it can also be added as an extra later meaning work done so far isn't wasted. There's also no time issue with it. Its by far the most sensible approach for the devs and players.

The only problem with that approach is for people who resent the idea of others being able to use infinite probes only instead of crafting their own if they like and not worrying about it.

 

[Ian Skippy]

But it literally is cool!

My god man, there's a huge stellar body with a huge realistically modelled ring, and you get to fly right through it, what are playing this game for if it's not that sort of thing!

You're flying right over billions upon billions of asteroids in a belt, you can even make them out if you look down, it's literally why we play space games, to go see and experience sights like this.

But you can do it right now, as much as you want. What is the point of enforcing it if others dont like it? Especially if your primary argument is 'but it looks cool!'.

The most popular option on OA's poll was a mix, infinite basic probes and craftable superior ones. That satisfies both infinite and finite supporters totally, it can also be added as an extra later meaning work done so far isn't wasted. There's also no time issue with it. Its by far the most sensible approach for the devs and players.

The only problem with that approach is for people who resent the idea of others being able to use infinite probes only instead of crafting their own if they like and not worrying about it.

Indeed, and I think someone proposed this in another topic before this one hit the double digits in pages.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

An insightful observation. [up]

What I've been doing (trying to find Pattern Epsilon data to unlock the Guardian SLFs) is grind.
I want to unlock the SLFs so I have to do the same thing over and over to achieve that.

Resupplying your ship regularly during an exploration trip isn't grind. It's just... sensible.
Your ship uses fuel, you collect more.
Your SRV uses fuel, you collect more.
Your FSD uses jumponium, you collect more.
Your AFMU uses ammo, you create more.
Your HSL uses ammo, you create more.
You use repair limpets, you create more.

As I've already said, I'd really like it if there were more reasons to stop off at planets (or rings) to resupply.
Which is not to say I want to spend more time collecting mats.
I'd like for the overall requirement for mat's to be reduced but the things they're needed for to be diversified,

Right now, you can build a ship and know that you can, pretty-much, circumnavigate the entire galaxy without having to worry about resupplying, other than scooping fuel and that's kind of "shallow".
It'd be nice if you knew that every couple of thousand Ly you were going to have to use all these fancy new tools to start looking for specific types of planet so you could find some rare mat' to restore your FSD (for example) to full capacity.

Kind of like how ships in the Star Trek universe are constantly (whenever the plot requires it) having to find replacement dilithium crystals or top up their deuterium fuel.

very well worded imo......

like others have suggested and seems to have over all support, basic infinite probes which are not as good and craftable improved probes seems like the obvious compromise..... I imagine some wont like that either but i think this will get the most people on board. (however i think FD have already stated their plans are now for improvements in probes to come via engineering..... this imo is a mistake, but it aint my choice.

 

[Stigbob]

very well worded imo......

The thing about star trek is the technology changes with every episode/film to fit the story or make things exciting. Its the go to example of really inconsistent sci fi.

If the first 20 minutes of every episode was spent watching the same three engineers digging up dilithium it would get boring fast, they could do red dwarf style comedy bickering but even that would get old.

 

[bitstorm]

I know you love this idea, you've been pitching it for like 50 pages now. I understand the concept you're talking about, I get it. But I don't like it. No matter how many times u explain it.

Also, FD never proposed this option. This is all in your head space, you're not arguing that Adam revert his code back to his earlier system of synthesised probes. You're proposing something that has never existed and pitching it like it was seriously considered by FD.

Not really pitching it.

I'm having to spell it out because you're conflating grind with gameplay flow, they're really not the same thing.

I notice you didn't reply to that, rather went down the route of "stop pitching!"

 

[Ian Skippy]

An insightful observation. [up]

What I've been doing (trying to find Pattern Epsilon data to unlock the Guardian SLFs) is grind.
I want to unlock the SLFs so I have to do the same thing over and over to achieve that.

Resupplying your ship regularly during an exploration trip isn't grind. It's just... sensible.
Your ship uses fuel, you collect more.
Your SRV uses fuel, you collect more.
Your FSD uses jumponium, you collect more.
Your AFMU uses ammo, you create more.
Your HSL uses ammo, you create more.
You use repair limpets, you create more.

As I've already said, I'd really like it if there were more reasons to stop off at planets (or rings) to resupply.
Which is not to say I want to spend more time collecting mats.
I'd like for the overall requirement for mat's to be reduced but the things they're needed for to be diversified,

Right now, you can build a ship and know that you can, pretty-much, circumnavigate the entire galaxy without having to worry about resupplying, other than scooping fuel and that's kind of "shallow".
It'd be nice if you knew that every couple of thousand Ly you were going to have to use all these fancy new tools to start looking for specific types of planet so you could find some rare mat' to restore your FSD (for example) to full capacity.

Kind of like how ships in the Star Trek universe are constantly (whenever the plot requires it) having to find replacement dilithium crystals or top up their deuterium fuel.

I'd be for it if there were a challenge in gathering mats. Endure the elements, deal with insane heat/cold. Heck, could be NMS style with some bars depleting depending on the planet. But as it stands it is risk-free and challenge-free, and as such a grind IMHO.

 

[bitstorm]

But you can do it right now, as much as you want. What is the point of enforcing it if others dont like it? Especially if your primary argument is 'but it looks cool!'.

Some people are asking for a bit more depth than simply "infinite probes" right?

So you want a solution that's not a grind, has some level of enjoyment in it, then this is a candidate. It's not the material grind that seems to be the common complaint against finite, it has a few (simple) mechanics within it, and it has the player do something neat. I mean what more do you want?

Pretty sure if you presented fuel scooping right now for ship fuel people would complain they don't like it, for exactly the same reasons.

 

[Stigbob]

I mean what more do you want?

Choice.

 

[NeilF]

So, regardless of the 35 pages of guff that supposedly fully grown adults who should know better have been crying over, what are the actual chances that the developers are going to change the probe count to something finite?

So, regardless of posts from some folks, using loaded unfair rhetoric ("fully grown adults who should know better have been crying over"), there's actually many other posts in this thread that are quite interesting, and more importantly, polite

And you do realise, that's all this thread is? Just folks talking around a topic? There's no pitch forks on display other than seemingly the odd post every now and then from when someone jumps in from some self declared moral high ground seemingly declaring, "How dare you talk about this!"


Anyway, to answer you point. I doubt very much FD will change "infinite probes," but that doesn't mean we can't have some interesting chats about it...

 

[NeilF]

It is, because it enforces an unnecessary departure from gameplay for the sake of adding more time to what your doing. It is neither interesting, nor enjoyable. The AMFU ammo keeps the device from being overpowered. It gives it a limit so we're not invincable. Jumponium mats are necessary to make the super jumps rare and require careful thought when to use them. Repair Limpets for the same reason as the AMFU. But Probe crafting. I can't think of a single useful reason for it. Clearly Adam felt the same way when he was testing values. It was a pointless exercise, forcing us to divert away from exploring. In short, crafting probes did not improve the game.

If we ignore how probes are regenerated - crafting, or fuel scooping at a metallic ring, or fuel scooping at a gas giant - then for me at least (with my play style) being held accountable - even just to a small degree - for efficient probe use, and having something else to juggle and consider while exploring, would improve gameplay.

I like the idea of having to keep track of probe usage, and having to plan when, where and how to replenish them, and being able to do this well, or be held accountable if I do it badly.

Again, I understand this isn't the preference for some, but it appeals to me...