Procedural Generation and Permanent Features question

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Viajero
Apologies if this has also been discussed in other threads here or the DDF but I have not been able to find any specific info about it, so here it goes.

I ve read a lot of threads related to procedural generation and the usual "samey" concerns, but I was now interested in a different aspect of procedural generation this time:

Will procedural world and landscape generation be created "on the fly" (pun intended) for someone flying in and visiting a specific world, large asteroid or similar and then scratched and deleted until someone comes back where a new landscape will be generated and that it may not be the same as seen the first time?

Or will these worlds be procedurally generated only once and then made permanent? Is there enough memory capacity in the E: D system to contain all those? (400 billion star systems...).

In other words, will different players (either traveling together or visiting the same spot at different times) see the same permanent procedurally generated landscape (including eventual flora and fauna) details?

This could be crucial if a at some point players can interact with the landscape in any way or form, be it for space combat tactic advantage, or to build or construct structures of any kind there etc that may make the landscape around it meaninful.
 
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Erimus Kamzel

Erimus Kamzel
It will be procedurally generated only once and be permanent because the original seed FD use will be the same for us all. So everyone plays in the exact same environment and see's the same landscapes etc.
 

Tarek

T
It will be generated on the fly, but not random. Instead of a casual random number generator there works a fixed sequence of numbers which is calculated on the fly but is for every player the same. In this case every landscape, asteroid field or nebular which is procedural generated is persistent without saving the end-result of the calculation.
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Viajero
Erimus said:
It will be procedurally generated only once and be permanent because the original seed FD use will be the same for us all. So everyone plays in the exact same environment and see's the same landscapes etc.
Click to expand...

That d be really cool, thanks.

Do you have a link to the source info confirming this?
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Viajero
Tarek said:
It will be generated on the fly, but not random. Instead of a casual random number generator there works a fixed sequence of numbers which is calculated on the fly but is for every player the same. In this case every landscape, asteroid field or nebular which is procedural generated is persistent without saving the end-result of the calculation.
Click to expand...

Oh I see. It does not need to be saved anywhere. The seed does the job for us, correct?
 

Cmdr Eagleboy

Cmdr Eagleboy
Regarding making changes in universe made from PG seed there's devil in details. FD PG engine allows you to override generated stuff manually if desired. It was done in FE2, where Sol system was overriden. Same will happen in ED.

Theoretically there's no limits regarding making permanent changes in universe (except for storage) - and this is what meta server will do actually. However, question is most likely will be players be able to change something directly. There are several technical issues related to that, and I don't expect such feature to appear soon....However FD have never denied possibility of user buildings in future. So technically....it is possible I guess. Biggest issues would be syncing and storing all that extra stuff.
 

Memnoch

M
Can you imagine what would happen if they allowed terrain deformation due to player weapons such as missiles? I doubt the game could cater for that. Could the terrain damage be procedural as well? Missile type A lands on planet B at co-ordinates X,Y. Should, or rather could, the resultant crater be the same for every player that views it?

I could see this being abused though, with some determined pilots attempting to tunnel to the planet's core! :)
 

deMangler

deMangler
Also, although the seed will remain the same, time changes, so even without human introduced variables I would expect the main content produced by the PG algorithms to not be static. The same for everyone but not the same over time.
 

Memnoch

M
To stop things getting bogged down too much there would have to be some kind of periodic refresh, and all player or AI changes from the original seed of the object will "age" and reset back to default settings.
 

Mephane

Mephane
Liqua said:
Or putting messages into planet surfaces that are viewable from space "Hello World" :D
Click to expand...

Or sculpture a mountainside to look like one half of a face when viewed under the right angle of sunlight using low resolution cameras... oh wait.
 

Memnoch

M
Time to break him out again!

biPtv-Copy.gif
 

au4049q

au4049q
Procedural generation broadcasting only the random number seed is not compatible with player graffiti etching a rude symbol onto an asteroid for all to see. It is more suited to laying out the centers of mass of all asteroids in a starsystem, and their base shapes before modification. I'd see no reason why some starsystem modifier data cannot be uploaded from player to their local group so that their friends might see their rude symbol but nobody else has to. Best not do that in a non-anarchic star system as the police will take a very dim view of graffiti.

A lot can be done from only a random number seed, but finding the seed which results in exactly the original starsystem plus one player-defined crater somewhere would take e^N time for an N object starsystem, so I don't expect that to be possible.
 

Herik

Herik
Viajero said:
Apologies if this has also been discussed in other threads here or the DDF but I have not been able to find any specific info about it, so here it goes.

I ve read a lot of threads related to procedural generation and the usual "samey" concerns, but I was now interested in a different aspect of procedural generation this time:

Will procedural world and landscape generation be created "on the fly" (pun intended) for someone flying in and visiting a specific world, large asteroid or similar and then scratched and deleted until someone comes back where a new landscape will be generated and that it may not be the same as seen the first time?

Or will these worlds be procedurally generated only once and then made permanent? Is there enough memory capacity in the E: D system to contain all those? (400 billion star systems...).

In other words, will different players (either traveling together or visiting the same spot at different times) see the same permanent procedurally generated landscape (including eventual flora and fauna) details?

This could be crucial if a at some point players can interact with the landscape in any way or form, be it for space combat tactic advantage, or to build or construct structures of any kind there etc that may make the landscape around it meaninful.
Click to expand...

As far as I know there is only (one) seed which is being used for the entire galaxy. Types of moons, flora/fauna or lack; Types of planets, flora/fauna or lack and stars and all there movements....But perhaps a second seed could be generated if a flag was set at landing which would produce a special desired condition for an 'event'. These 'events' are some thing DB wants to produce in space and economy...and perhaps on planets.
 
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