PSA: Surviving a gank 101

[Deleted member 182079]

Not that surprising, actually.
1. It counts people on all platforms.
2. It counts people on all modes.
3. Most importantly: as far as i know it also counts NPCs.

Good evidence for point 3: some time ago, we had an update where the servers were running, but people were not able to log in. When we finally were able to log in again, central systems said that plenty of ships moved around there recently. So either the game just displays random numbers, or it counts the NPCs.

I was aware of 1. and 2, but 3..... I don't think that can be right as I regularly check ship visit statistics, and in some backwaters you might not even get more than half a dozen visitors whereas SC is full of NPC's.

 

[Crazy Joe]

I don't get this complaining about Solo and/or Group players interfering with the BGS. Even in Open there is only a limited chance that you will be instanced with the players on the other side of your conflict. This isn't Eve with its single server architecture, but ED with its P2P "server" model. So when you aren't instanced with your opponents they will still have the chance to mess with the BGS without you being able to do anything against it.

 

[Morbad]

You would argue that you could counter BGS manipulation by interdicting bucketfillers, but that still would put the initiative with the PvE player.

Not if the CMDRs in question could actually die or be inconvenienced enough by attrition for it to matter.

As the game has move progressively away from the ability to inflict consequence on other player-characters, so has my incentive to go out of my way for PvP. There are still some cases where one can divine the most opportune (or disadvantageous, depending on perspective) moment to strike and inflict a meaningful loss, but they are few and far between...especially if one isn't willing to use 3rd party tools to track CMDRs.

 

[Sylow]

Not if the CMDRs in question could actually die or be inconvenienced enough by attrition for it to matter.

Hmm. The way you say that somehow gives me the picture: all sides are running a marathon. But some people are unhappy that you can't kick the other runners down.

 

[Old Duck]

I'm looking forward to getting shot down - it will give me a chance to implement my new Reverse Iron Man protocol

Except that I'm too busy playing that other space game.....

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Not if the CMDRs in question could actually die or be inconvenienced enough by attrition for it to matter.

I'm not saying it wouldn't matter, I'm saying the initiative is with the PvE player (edit: or more accurately, the PvE activity, since PvP players also can do the bucket filling). No PvE activity, no PvP impact.

 

[Dillon Fallon]

Frontier's stance was made clear back in 2015, when player supported Minor Factions were being introduced:

I'm not making any argument about the impact of all players across modes or platforms having an impact on the BGS. Every player should feel like they're making some small difference to the galaxy.

I was looking more towards when you're knowingly competing specifically against another player group for control of a system that open should be the place to do it. A choice has already been made that this is a multiplayer conflict. Sure you can do it with one side in a PG, but the analogy I'd use there is 2 teams on 2 separate pitches with the winner being the one who scores the most goals against no opposition.

A situation that speaks about the players themselves and not what modes exist.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I'm not making any argument about the impact of all players across modes or platforms having an impact on the BGS. Every player should feel like they're making some small difference to the galaxy.

I was looking more towards when you're knowingly competing specifically against another player group for control of a system that open should be the place to do it. A choice has already been made that this is a multiplayer conflict. Sure you can do it with one side in a PG, but the analogy I'd use there is 2 teams on 2 separate pitches with the winner being the one who scores the most goals against no opposition.

A situation that speaks about the players themselves and not what modes exist.

Michael was replying to exactly this.

Indeed it does speak about the players themselves - every player bought (or backed) a game where PvP is entirely optional and some players can't accept that others don't need to engage in PvP to affect the BGS.

 

[Ted Striker]

Maybe you should consider playing Warthunder. I played it heavily before Elite was released and it allows you to fulfill your dream of being a fighter pilot. And best of all: it's fully PVP (except for some PVE training missions) so you'll always find human opponents to fight against. It has three levels of difficulty: Arcade, Realistic and Simulator so there is a definite skill progression you can choose from. It is free to play, though the game gives you plenty of options to pay your way up the plane trees of the supported nations (German, British, Soviet, Japanese, Chinese, USA, Italian, French and soon Swedish airplane trees are available). The trees span the era between 1920/30's to Vietnam era airplanes. If you need more challenges you can also try you hand at tanks (in the ground forces side of the game) or naval combat.

www.warthunder.com

MODS: I'm not advertising another game, just giving this player who needs PVP action to enjoy himself another option besides trying to kill every commander in Elite.

I was considering saying the same thing on page 2. Warthunder is the perfect game for OP. It's true PvP in actual planes with really good physics if you play realistic or simulation. If you want to be a fighter pilot why are you here ganking people instead of there flying in fighter plane PvP?

Here's what I think:

• Battlefield is a PvP game
• Call Of Duty is a PvP game
• Warthunder is a PvP game
• World of Tanks and World of Warships are PvP games
• Fortnite is a PvP game (I'm pretty sure anyway)

• Elite: Dangerous is not a PvP game (but CQC is)
• WoW is not a PvP game
• Every MMO currently online is not a PvP game
• GTA online is not a PvP game
• Pirates of the Burning Sea is not a PvP game.

Does everyone understand the difference here? All this talk about modes and if they're equal doesn't matter as much when this game isn't a PvP game. PvE games with PvP tacked on always have flawed PvP. In some cases the flaws are mitigated by making PvP entirely optional via battlegrounds or some other separate game mode. In other cases it's a giant mess of hacking, cheating, ganking and downright sociopathic behavior. Elite falls somewhere in between. It's nowhere near GTA online's mess but let's not fool ourselves and think this is a PvP game.

 

[Eliza]

Michael was replying to exactly this.

Indeed it does speak about the players themselves - some bought a game where PvP is entirely optional and some can't accept that others don't need to engage in PvP to affect the BGS.

Even if you can consider the BGS as some kind of "indirect" PvP if two PMF are involved.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Even if you can consider the BGS as some kind of "indirect" PvP if two PMF are involved.

Of course - indirect asynchronous PvE bucket-filling of that kind is almost unavoidable as every player experiences and affects the single shared galaxy state.

 

[Eliza]

I was considering saying the same thing on page 2. Warthunder is the perfect game for OP. It's true PvP in actual planes with really good physics if you play realistic or simulation. If you want to be a fighter pilot why are you here ganking people instead of there flying in fighter plane PvP?
...

I didn't get this either. If I want PvP-Action I'll hop into my F-18 or SU-27 in DCS. If one want to be a "Fighter-Pilot" get a VR, a descent HOTAS and hop into DCS...It's incredibly real!

 

[Ted Striker]

I didn't get this either. If I want PvP-Action I'll hop into my F-18 or SU-27 in DCS. If one want to be a "Fighter-Pilot" get a VR, a descent HOTAS and hop into DCS...It's incredibly real!

There's also a level a skill required in those games that will never be required here, even in CQC. Elite is about as simple as it gets with flight models. No chance of stalling, no chance of crashing, no such thing as energy, no such thing as damaged parts affecting the flight model. Elite is like fighter pilots for kiddies. Seriously. You can ramp up the skill level required by flying exclusively FA off but it's not the same. If you play Warthunder (and DCS I guess, never played it) the way you play Elite you'll get your ass kicked guaranteed.

Elite is fun for entirely different reasons. I uninstalled Warthunder years ago but Elite has not left my machine ever.

 

[Screemonster]

I'm not saying it wouldn't matter, I'm saying the initiative is with the PvE player (edit: or more accurately, the PvE activity, since PvP players also can do the bucket filling). No PvE activity, no PvP impact.

Oh absolutely. Hanging around in supercruise and hoping to instance with whoever's bothering you is a waste of time you'd be better off spending filling your own buckets.

If you happen to see them in open though (or let someone see you) then I'm not gonna fault someone for seizing the opportunity.
Even if they can just switch to solo/private in practical terms, if they habitually play in open (or their friends do - sometimes I have a harder time instancing with people in private, even when we're winged, than we do in open for some reason) then there's definitely something to be said for the psychological effect. "I normally play in open, but if I run BGS in that system then that awful horrible GRIEFER might get me", etc. I've run in player groups before that have had the discord chats outright panic and tell at everyone to switch to PG because someone saw @Space Mage passing through and he was on the distant ganks leaderboard. He wasn't even there to gank anyone as far as I know.

 

[Eliza]

There's also a level a skill required in those games that will never be required here, even in CQC. Elite is about as simple as it gets with flight models. No chance of stalling, no chance of crashing, no such thing as energy, no such thing as damaged parts affecting the flight model. Elite is like fighter pilots for kiddies. Seriously. You can ramp up the skill level required by flying exclusively FA off but it's not the same. If you play Warthunder (and DCS I guess, never played it) the way you play Elite you'll get your kicked guaranteed.

Elite is fun for entirely different reasons. I uninstalled Warthunder years ago but Elite has not left my machine ever.

You even won't get off the runway in those games...this is hardcore sim.
I can only recommend Everspace or the like for the OP...Simple mechanics and full fleshed out space-combat. Nice Graphics too btw.

 

[Morbad]

Hmm. The way you say that somehow gives me the picture: all sides are running a marathon. But some people are unhappy that you can't kick the other runners down.

Some people are unhappy that the only way they can decide the course of a war is to run a marathon.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Some people are unhappy that the only way they can decide the course of a war is to run a marathon.

Pheidippides was especially unhappy about that.

 

[Morbad]

Pheidippides was especially unhappy about that.

At least he was able to avoid Persian scouts and spies long enough to inform the Spartans that Athens required relief.

It would be a pretty silly war game if such messengers had no chance of being intercepted.

 

[Dillon Fallon]

Michael was replying to exactly this.

Indeed it does speak about the players themselves - every player bought (or backed) a game where PvP is entirely optional and some players can't accept that others don't need to engage in PvP to affect the BGS.

Not sure that's how I would want to directly compete against another group of players if I had the choice.

I'm not talking about merely affecting the BGS however. I'm talking about directly manipulating the BGS to push down a player faction's influence to the point where they are no longer in control of the system. If you are directly competing with another group of players, is it not more fun to meet them head on?

 

[Bloodsign]

Very much my own MO and experience also.

I've since resigned to the fact that NPCs are more chatty than those who just pull you for the sake of it.

In the CG now, I also noticed that the white hat groups (Gard, Spear) tend to be more open to RP, which is nice from an immersion viewpoint. Most gankers are either silent or engage in lowbrow smack talk only.

Although there was a convo between a pirate (think he was part of Code) and some trader pilots, and unfortunately the latter weren't at all receptive to the piracy RP which was a shame. I'd LOVE to get pirated by a player, as opposed to the non sensical NPC experience.

I also found many non PvP players being overly aggressive towards gankers in chat. Wish some people could cool it a little.

Well, points for effort I suppose.

MY experience, when people talk to me at all during an interdiction, is that they bombard me with verbal abuse and profanity. I utterly despise profanity, how philistine!

One guy I interdicted two days ago told me, "Have fun playing with my corpse, [expletive]." I didn't appreciate his attitude, so I told him I wasn't into necrophilia and blew him up.

You have to understand too that chatting is hazardous, especially when ATR is hunting you.