PvP Flag in Open Play for NOPVP players.

[Thepirateorc]

I've specifically defined ganking as "unsolicited PVP" though. I've used that term several times. So I'm honestly confused why you would ask someone, several times, what "ganking" is when they've clearly defined it.

Me and you playing Counterstrike against each other: PVP. It's a competitive shooter. There's no surprises, the rules are set for PVP and everything is setup to be fair for both sides etc etc. I'm not mining rocks, or building a house, or doing anything other than agreeing to kill and be killed in a competitive arena.

Me flying into Deciat with a poorly engineered ship and being insta-killed by your Frag-Da-Lance camping the base = GANKING.

I mean I'm not sure what you want from me or why I'm even having to type all this when there's been ZERO debate on what is ganking in games for over 20 something years now.

Counterstrike is an different game that focuses soley on PVP, ed doesn't. There will always be a losing side but that how it goes. If you get ganked by a fdl, you learn to be more cautious next time.

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

The PvP piracy is relevant to the topic as the op flag system would damage it, he also states it wouldn't damage PvP. We are discussing that it would and showing that it is an enjoyable aspect of the game.

And yet you refuse to answer me on how it would damage it.

If you get ganked by a fdl, you learn to be more cautious next time.

That's all good, but see? You used the word "ganked" in that scenario. There's no confusion by what that word means. So I don't get why he kept asking me what I thought it meant.

 

[Thepirateorc]

Really well played and looks extremely funny

Here another one, this time we took the frontier forum moderator Bongobaggins hostage

Dark Marauders strike again | Sagittarius Eye

A pirate group called the Dark Marauders, first heard of in 3302, kidnapped Cmdr Bongo Baggins yesterday (April 20th, 3305) in the LHS 129 system. The pirates demanded a ransom of two hundred tonnes of narcotics, allegedly to support a massive party hosted by none other than Archon Delaine in...

www.sagittarius-eye.com

 

[Thepirateorc]

And yet you refuse to answer me on how it would damage it.



That's all good, but see? You used the word "ganked" in that scenario. There's no confusion by what that word means. So I don't get why he kept asking me what I thought it meant.

If players could op out of pvp in open then there would be a large amount who would do so at a cg, which is often a trade cg, this means that the commanders who are hauling goods at the cg and have nopvp flag on can not be robbed therefor making it harder for us to rob players, this affects us as we would have less people to rob in the only mode which we can come across random cmdrs.

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

If players could op out of pvp in open then there would be a large amount who would do so at a cg, which is often a trade cg, this means that the commanders who are hauling goods at the cg and have nopvp flag on can not be robbed therefor making it harder for us to rob players, this affects us as we would have less people to rob in the only mode which we can come across random cmdrs.

But they are doing that now. That's my point. Why are we going in circles? Anyone who would set their PVP flag to off in Open, is exactly the same player who's currently avoiding Open right now in a PG, or Solo, or has you on a block list already. So either way, you can't interact with them anyway. They are avoiding you now, and they would avoid you with this change.

So I'm trying to understand how this idea would hurt your gameplay and nobody is giving me a satisfactory answer on that.

 

[Syrtal]

Anyway for everybody who followed I'm convinced to stick with PVT Mobius remains the UPPER 20K player cap to be removed i'll join discussion and proposals to remove the UPPER PVT players cap

 

[Thepirateorc]

But they are doing that now. That's my point. Why are we going in circles? Anyone who would set their PVP flag to off in Open, is exactly the same player who's currently avoiding Open right now in a PG, or Solo, or has you on a block list already. So either way, you can't interact with them.

So I'm trying to understand how this idea would hurt your gameplay and nobody is giving me a satisfactory answer on that.

Because it would increase the amount of people who would do so if they learned the option was available to play in open without getting attacked by a player, i see what your saying but it introducing a new system would only increase the amount of people who would want no pvp mode on.

 

[Fake Newts]

Well

So I'm trying to understand how this idea would hurt your gameplay and nobody is giving me a satisfactory answer on that.

PvP Flag in Open Play for NOPVP players.

As it is those who don't wish to engage in this behavior with the "pirates", are just in solo or PG's already anyway. Assumption, again. You can't possibly know why everyone in SOLO or PG is playing in those modes. I'm really going to blow your mind in a minute. While those who enjoy it, as...

forums.frontier.co.uk

I'm honestly trying here.

Also re. piracy - the issue is not about "forcing more victims into a situation they actively want to avoid", it's about how instancing works. Instancing players with like-minded players is good; instances are limited, you can't choose who you're instanced with and you can't be instanced with very many people at once; if you get instanced with exclusively No-PvP flag players as a pirate you have no recourse. If you enjoy being pirated (which legit many people do, call them crazy, they absolutely exist) but get instanced only with No-PvP flag players they're also missing out. There's no reason to dilute Open instances with people playing at cross-purposes when promoting bespoke instances for different preferences is an option.

 

[Thepirateorc]

Anyway for everybody who followed I'm convinced to stick with PVT Mobius remains the UPPER 20K player cap to be removed i'll join discussion and proposals to remove the UPPER PVT players cap

I see what your saying but this game has to cater to everyone including the pvp camp, we can certainly make scenarios of terrible things that can happen in open but we can also talk about good interactions pvp wise as i have shown to you earlier. The pve crowd already have two modes and a player private group called mobius if they dont want pvp.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

But they are doing that now. That's my point. Why are we going in circles? Anyone who would set their PVP flag to off in Open, is exactly the same player who's currently avoiding Open right now in a PG, or Solo, or has you on a block list already. So either way, you can't interact with them anyway. They are avoiding you now, and they would avoid you with this change.

So I'm trying to understand how this idea would hurt your gameplay and nobody is giving me a satisfactory answer on that.

Again, it is the wrong way round. PvE server with PvP flag is the way, preferably in easily identifiable locations so players can meet more easily. If you have a PvP server you don't need the PvE flag.

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

Because it would increase the amount of people who would do so if they learned the option was available to play in open without getting attacked by a player, i see what your saying but it introducing a new system would only increase the amount of people who would want no pvp mode on.

Okay well I knew before I even played Elite that solo and PG's were an option, one I have made great use of. I guess I see your point too, but I don't know man...

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

Well

PvP Flag in Open Play for NOPVP players.

As it is those who don't wish to engage in this behavior with the "pirates", are just in solo or PG's already anyway. Assumption, again. You can't possibly know why everyone in SOLO or PG is playing in those modes. I'm really going to blow your mind in a minute. While those who enjoy it, as...

forums.frontier.co.uk

I'm honestly trying here.

Also re. piracy - the issue is not about "forcing more victims into a situation they actively want to avoid", it's about how instancing works. Instancing players with like-minded players is good; instances are limited, you can't choose who you're instanced with and you can't be instanced with very many people at once; if you get instanced with exclusively No-PvP flag players as a pirate you have no recourse. If you enjoy being pirated (which legit many people do, call them crazy, they absolutely exist) but get instanced only with No-PvP flag players they're also missing out. There's no reason to dilute Open instances with people playing at cross-purposes when promoting bespoke instances for different preferences is an option.

Sure it's easy for you to instance with like-minded players: You just join open. Big deal.

I have to jump through the hoops and hassle of joining some group like Mobius which requires filling out applications etc etc - having rules imposed on me I may or may not love. Or just playing by myself all the time in Solo. Or with some friends in a PG, but it's not the same. How do I just instance with "like minded players" when we have NO MODE OR METHOD to conveniently and organically end up together with them the way you are in Open?

How do I instance with "like minded" players when I don't even know who they are? I mean what the heck man, this is so one-sided!

Oh and this doesn't even address how the netcode is such crap half the time that instancing is flat-out broken or disruptive compared to Open servers. I can barely have a stable experience in a group of one other player sometimes it feels like...

 

[Fake Newts]

Sure it's easy for you to instance with like-minded players: You just join open. Big deal.

I have to jump through the hoops and hassle of joining some group like Mobius which requires filling out applications etc etc. Or just playing by myself all the time in Solo. Or with some friends in a PG, but it's not the same. How do I just instance with "like minded players" when we have NO MODE OR METHOD to conveniently and organically end up together with them the way you are in Open?

How do I instance with "like minded" players when I don't even know who they are? I mean what the heck man, this is so one-sided!

You were being pretty chill with Thepirateorc I don't know what exactly it is that makes you type capital letters in response to me, but I did not say either that it was easy for me to instance with like-minded players (believe me, it's not), nor that it was ideal that you have to jump through hoops to find Mobius. I said that unnecessary infringement on other players' preferences doesn't seem like a good solution either way when alternatives exist - and could be built upon.

As an aside, I do wonder a little if you're entertaining some unrealistic expectations about how common it is to even meet people at all in open let alone organically hook up with them.

Edit: Also system chat exists and is a great way to find and chat to people with shared interests in game, and then organise a group with them ad hoc... provided it's a busy system, of course, if it's not a busy system then it's kind of moot anyway.

 

[Fake Newts]

Oh and this doesn't even address how the netcode is such crap half the time that instancing is flat-out broken or disruptive compared to Open servers. I can barely have a stable experience in a group of one other player sometimes it feels like...

Open is typically less stable than private groups. There aren't separate servers, just separate instances and those instances are only as stable as the players you're paired with.

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

You were being pretty chill with Thepirateorc I don't know what exactly it is that makes you type capital letters in response to me, but I did not say either that it was easy for me to instance with like-minded players (believe me, it's not), nor that it was ideal that you have to jump through hoops to find Mobius. I said that unnecessary infringement on other players' preferences doesn't seem like a good solution either way when alternatives exist - and could be built upon.

As an aside, I do wonder a little if you're entertaining some unrealistic expectations about how common it is to even meet people at all in open let alone organically hook up with them.

I use the caps for emphasis because I'm too lazy to italicize words, has nothing to do with my mood. Look at all my posts, it's just my thing. I'm not typing entire sentences with caps, that's screaming and poor form. I wouldn't do that to you or anyone.

 

[Ziziksu]

Having an open, and solo mode detatches the player from the community, player interaction, by having it toggleable, players might meet up with friendly groups and get involved that way. So im for the idea, might be a pain to impliment though.

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

Having an open, and solo mode detatches the player from the community, player interaction, by having it toggleable, players might meet up with friendly groups and get involved that way. So im for the idea, might be a pain to impliment though.

If you want that community feel, you must accept griefing

I mean that's basically the response one is met with here.

 

[Fake Newts]

And * snap * like that, it's as if there had never been 10 pages of debate. Convenient.

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

And * snap * like that, it's as if there had never been 10 pages of debate. Convenient.

LOL hey man speaking of pvp and griefing, you seriously almost killed me via the forums.

Had my game muted and in the background and when I just tabbed back in, my ship had slowly drifted in SC at zero throttle after a jump, heading into a star, long enough so my 'Vette was almost dead from heat damage.

True story, I'm laughing at the irony and all. How you almost killed me, death by typing, on this thread about griefing hahaha.

 

[Ytterium]

Had my game muted and in the background and when I just tabbed back in, my ship had slowly drifted in SC at zero throttle after a jump, heading into a star, long enough so my 'Vette was almost dead from heat damage.

Dangit! Foiled again! He figured us out!