PvP Flag in Open Play for NOPVP players.

[Ytterium]

Then fine, shoot me. Then make it so after two seconds, 10 Elite level police Corvettes jump on my location and pound you into sand or chase you away. There, immersive enough?

I mean in High sec system sure. It would still be a matter of "kill him in less than 2 seconds". Also, NPC corvettes arent that scary for a ship that can tank.

I mean christ, if you want to behave like an animal prepare to get treated as one.

Dang, really selling the idea of wanting a civil discussion by dehumanizing the opposition. Your hypocrisy is incredible.

I'm not declaring what everyone wants. I'm agreeing with the OP, and saying it's also what I want. Again, why are you making this more than it is?

I mean its not really agreeing with OP if OP has changed their mind unless you mean you agree with their new stance.

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

The mental gymastics these guys go through to hand-wave away the Mobius evidence is, frankly, obnoxious.

Evidence of what? Evidence that everyone in Mobius is there because of ganking? You cant possibly know why everyone joins Mobius. You can guess, conclude, assume but you cannot know for sure and your guesses, conclusions and assumptions could be wrong.

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

You continue to be categorical about what 'needs' to be done and to use the first person plural as if everyone agrees with you.

Many people wouldn't benefit from what the OP proposed. They've voiced their opinions as well.

Compromises and recourse

Sorry, I wasn't really responding to you, you've been pretty consistently reasonable ITT and fwiw I do think that frontier could make hooking up with like-minded players in like-minded instances easier.

What I meant is there are currently systems in game that enable people to solve to a great extent the problems laid out here without being actively detrimental to others. Those systems might not be spectacularly well implemented, but honestly what is in this game.

It's so absurd how you're taking common communication parlances and twisting it into that context. It's perfectly appropriate to use the first person and even third-person omniscient writing style in such an informal setting as this. I am not speaking for "everyone" and you really just need to stop that accusation so the conversation, such as it is, can just move forward. I mean come on, if you are set on pouncing on things to this extent for a 'gotcha', you have no business calling others trolls.

 

[Syrtal]

Assumption. You cant know that.

Right, so these people that might enjoy maintaining that group, you want to strip them of that?

Frankly, I got the game I paid for. Anyone who purchased an MMO who was afraid of ganking should have done more research before purchase on how FD tackle the issue.

The thing is, you've rather skipped over the point I was making.

Mobius is only possible because of a facility FD installed in the game, thereby, FD have already resolved this issue. They have created the facility for like minded players to gather together, possibly to hide from gankers, possibly for a multitude of other reasons.

No it's not the same but this discussion is a loop cause simply you like open as it is. I don't, but i see your point you don't see mine (or you don't want to doesn't matter).i play solo from 1993 Elite Frontier and for me can continue forever and I'm ok if stays like that i accept but that's my right to explain as customer what I like more, that's does not automatically going to change the game but be sure that probability increase with the number of people. Knowing that there is PVT group kept by community that inhibit PVP i really don't get what changes from your perspective if this become patroned by Frontier itself? That's exactly the same thing from a gaming perspective but not from a long term support, management of the claim etc. so would ONLY benefit the NON PVP players without harming in any way the PVP. In addition by saying that the flow is a my assumption (maybe true) moreover you're enforcing that makes no difference so why insist that must be kept by the community and not embraced by the developers i really don't get it.

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

Evidence of what? Evidence that everyone in Mobius is there because of ganking? You cant possibly know why everyone joins Mobius. You can guess, conclude, assume but you cannot know for sure and your guesses, conclusions and assumptions could be wrong.

They willingly join a group that isolates themselves from Open, while expressly agreeing to a rule that they will not engage in PVP while being a part of that group.

Yeah man you're right, it's like a complete MYSTERY why Mobius is a huge thing and what their reasons for joining the group are.

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

I mean its not really agreeing with OP if OP has changed their mind unless you mean you agree with their new stance.

Oh you mean after he's been bullied and browbeat into submission? Yeah bravo gang....

 

[Bigmaec]

* I * count towards the 20k Mobius players. Your assumption is invalid.

 

[Ytterium]

Knowing that there is PVT group kept by community that inhibit PVP i really don't get what changes from your perspective if this become patroned by Frontier itself? That's exactly the same thing from a gaming perspective but not from a long term support, management of the claim etc. so would ONLY benefit the NON PVP players without harming in any way the PVP.

Difference between Mobius and your suggestion is that there are no gameplay changes in Mobius. You can still shoot and kill other players, its just in that case you promise not to. I think thats great. What I don't agree with is changing mechanics involved to make non-PvPer's invincible in everyone's experience for not everyone's benefit.

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

Ok just a troll then. Got it. Good game, buddy, good game.

How? How is that trolling? I'm tired of this game.

A statement is made, the counter is "not true" where's your evidence - the evidence is introduced and all kind of elaborate excuses are made for why it's not valid so it can be thrown out from consideration. Ironically this is done by the ones claiming the other side is being inflexible.

It's the equivalent of covering your ears and screaming, but I am the one that's trolling? Okay, whatever you need to tell yourself.

 

[Fake Newts]

I actually have sympathy for the OP because, while I disagree with the proposed system (for reasons since outlined at length), it is a subject worth discussing (even for the 9,999th time). Particularly accessibility and fostering a pleasant environment for as many types of player as possible - it's a pretty interesting thing to think about and players in both pro and anti-PvP camps would probably agree that things as they stand could be better.

Starshot, I have to say though - if you aren't trolling - you're arguing in a way that is actually doing the OP's point a disservice. You're accepting no compromise, you're accepting no other preference than your own, you're either ignoring or dismissing every counterpoint presented and honestly posting in a way that reflects genuine fury. As no stranger to internet fury myself I sympathise to an extent, but maybe try to calm down and be a little more accepting of other people.

Going to flag up some points yet again.

- There are systemic/diegetic stakes and reasons for conflict that would be hampered/harmed by a flag system. Whether or not you care about these systems is neither here nor there.

- Immersion is important to many players, that would be broken by a flag system. Whether or not you personally care about immersion notwithstanding.

- Mobius exists and is, as you say yourself, fairly well populated so... why not use that? It seems unnecessary to infringe on the game's established ruleset and cohesion when others (in far greater numbers) seem to enjoy it or at least find it acceptable.

- The blocking mechanic exists, contentious as it is, that's extra recourse if you insist on flying in open but with the ability to remove players you deem to be acting in an antisocial manner.

The game isn't perfect; it could be more accessible, could be better balanced, could have better C&P, better diegetic responses to and reasons for violence. Could be made 'friendlier' to a broader range of tastes. There's probably more common ground between Elite players than you'd ever imagine from reading the forums.

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

you like open as it is.

I never play in open. Never have. Since joining this forum however, I have learned a lot from open players, their likes, dislikes and they bring a lot to this game, more than me in SOLO. I see people trying to change their game all the time and whilst there maybe someway to make it better for all, I don't believe the OP's idea of flags works. Not when there is a huge community someone can join if they want to meet other players but don't want to be shot at.

so would ONLY benefit the NON PVP players without harming in any way the PVP.

Here is the rub, you're automatically making the assumption that OPEN is PvP, that that is the only activity, it is not. Plenty of people play in OPEN without engaging in PvP.

makes no difference so why insist that must be kept by the community and not embraced by the developers i really don't get it.

On the other hand, if the facility exists, what difference does it make if it is player led or led by FD?

They willingly join a group that isolates themselves from Open, while expressly agreeing to a rule that they will not engage in PVP while being a part of that group.

Yeah man you're right, it's like a complete MYSTERY why Mobius is a huge thing and what their reasons for joining the group are.

Part of joining the group's requirements is that you agree to that rule. You're making an assumption that all of those people joined because of that rule, not just accepted that rule as a part of joining. I repeat, you cannot possibly know why 4, 400, 4k or 400k people have joined a group. You can make assumptions.


I would still like to hear what you consider 'Ganking', what that word means to you.

I would also like to know how many times you have been ganked and what is it you want to do in OPEN with other players if not PvP? What do you think is available for you to do in OPEN that isn't possible in a PG?

 

[Thepirateorc]

I really wish there was some kind of way to search for threads just like these before posting yet another one... Oh wait.

Read them, the answers here will be the same.

By playing in Open you implicitly agree to the possibility of PvP.

If you don't like PvP there are plenty of other options to try.

No, thats far too complicated for them to understand.

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

Starshot, I have to say though - if you aren't trolling - you're arguing in a way that is actually doing the OP's point a disservice. You're accepting no compromise, you're accepting no other preference than your own

This is unbelievable. No compromise? You mean besides the three or four in this very thread I already agreed to put forth by OPEN PVP players?

Just..wow.

 

[Fake Newts]

This is unbelievable. No compromise? You mean besides the three or four in this very thread I already agreed to put forth by OPEN PVP players?

Just..wow.

I must have missed those. Just as I helped you out by reiterating the points from my initial post, would you mind collecting or summarising these compromises now?

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

Oh you mean after he's been bullied and browbeat into submission? Yeah bravo gang....

Yes, he cant possibly have changed his mind on his own, having been persuaded by new knowledge. Jigs, some people listen and learn some people change their minds. This is pure flaming.

 

[Thepirateorc]

My proposal is to introduce a PVP / NoPVP FLAG in open play (with strong limitation of change to avoid exploiting). The reason behind this is that some player (like myself) play very small amounts of time due to personal matters and doesn't like to be blown-up by overpowered player pirates literally wasting precious hours of in-game time which translate in weeks of real life (people with families play few few time).

The Idea is:
1. Having a NoPVP flag makes aggressive interaction with other players impossible both ways (no way to directly damage other players ships or being damaged by them)
2. the NoPVP flag cannot be changed at will and not often thus limited to a
a) number of change per month/year or
b) once changed blocked for fixed amount of time weeks/months/a year
c) fixed days of the year
d) a combination of the above

Cmdr Syrtal

Or go play PG or solo or better yet mobius, there you will find others who see open as a pvp nightmare when really it isnt. If ppl spent time more on upgrading their ship and learn to evade then they wouldn't have anything to worry about.

 

[Chase Quinnell]

grabs popcorn

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

I must have missed those. Just as I helped you out by reiterating the points from my initial post, would you mind collecting or summarising these compromises now?

I can only assume there's some larger disconnect at this point.

If you are asking me to compromise on my position about ganking being griefing, I cannot. Because that is a personal values/morals code. You can no more demand a compromise on that than you could if you demanded I don't view murder as being wrong. That is an ethical debate, not a game-mechanics one.

But as far as methods to curb ganking? I have TOTALLY compromised over and over again on that while you and others have not.

 

[Chase Quinnell]

I can only assume there's some larger disconnect at this point.

If you are asking me to compromise on my position about ganking being griefing, I cannot. Because that is a personal values/morals code. You can no more demand a compromise on that than you could if you demanded I don't view murder as being wrong. That is an ethical debate, not a game-mechanics one.

But as far as methods to curb ganking? I have TOTALLY compromised over and over again on that while you and others have not.

I mean, you still didn't provide him with examples of your compromise(s). If you're looking to argue your point fairly, at least afford the opposition some courtesies. Otherwise, it's just flaming and belligerence.

 

[Thepirateorc]

No it's not the same but this discussion is a loop cause simply you like open as it is. I don't, but i see your point you don't see mine (or you don't want to doesn't matter).i play solo from 1993 Elite Frontier and for me can continue forever and I'm ok if stays like that i accept but that's my right to explain as customer what I like more, that's does not automatically going to change the game but be sure that probability increase with the number of people. Knowing that there is PVT group kept by community that inhibit PVP i really don't get what changes from your perspective if this become patroned by Frontier itself? That's exactly the same thing from a gaming perspective but not from a long term support, management of the claim etc. so would ONLY benefit the NON PVP players without harming in any way the PVP. In addition by saying that the flow is a my assumption (maybe true) moreover you're enforcing that makes no difference so why insist that must be kept by the community and not embraced by the developers i really don't get it.

Actually your idea of the flag system would definitely damage pvp piracy, the many players who fly cargo ships at the cg would simply use this to not get robbed or if its powerplay related killed.