Modes PvP for the average player otherwise know as "Oh-no, not again!"

The elephant in the room is the subjective/goal shifting definition of "griefer" in the first place.

That has always been the fallacious "get out of jail free card."

Basically "It's a griefer because I said so."

LOL


No it has always been "It's a griefer because of the griefer's actions". The "get out of Jail free card" has been pretty much what you described, lame excuses to paint as "reasons" for the griefer's actions. "Just because" has never been a valid reason, yet it also is used time and time again to excuse and validate what were clearly griefing attacks.


you get all flustered and accuse others of crap, but all you are doing is trying to defend behaviour that is rather undefendable.
 
Erm, perhaps you should have read all my post then, as I did put that there could be any reason as well.

So I didn't change my tune at all, you just made a bad assumption about my post.

Yes you do obfuscate, and you went in the other direction at the conclusion.

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

Though technically you are right, it could be "any reason" over engineered ships go about killing new players in Sidewinders.

But you'd be quackers to believe that it isn't a duck :p


So, is it a silly assumption, or quackers to believe otherwise?

You changed your tune in the later post:

Aye, and I bet some of them are in Solo/PG for that reason.
Just like some players only play some games to try and ruin it for others, like some open only players.

It takes all sorts to build a community.
And because of Elites versatility towards multiplayer / PvP, we get them from each end of the spectrum and everything in between.

That is a very different position than
But you'd be quackers to believe that it isn't a duck :p


Or was that not your conclusion, in the first post?
Don't accuse me of not reading.
I read it all.
 
Guys, can you please refrain from quoting a certain individual?

I put him on my ignore list so I didn't have to see this nonsense anymore. ;)
 
And ignored what didn't fit your argument / assumptions.

If it smells like a troll..............

Nope, I simply read the entire post and in particular your conclusion.
I objectively pointed out where you changed your position.

I didn't ignore anything.
You wish I would!

LOL

As for "troll"?
As they say in Denmark:

"Den som først er fisen var
den er fisens rette far."

Glad to see you're still using the photo.

;)
 
None of those 'brave souls' who are going to interdict me will do so if there is even a remote a chance that I could beat them.

I frequently drive off, and more rarely destroy, CMDR vessels that interdict my CMDR's vessel.

And as I refuse to do the PP nonsense to get those little OP'd trinkets for weps and shields, I will never be a match for even a one-on-one encounter against a full-tilt PvP ship.

None of the PP modules are game changers and many dedicated PvP vessels don't feature any.

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

There are no ducks.

You'll find the vast majority of players aren't even kitted out for PvP (interdictor), and at that point there's nowt to worry about.

I rarely put an interdictor on my combat vessels.

There are valid reasons for attacking, however if someone attacks without stating a reason then I make the assumption that its for their own gratification

Im very happy for someone to interdict me but have a macro ready saying 'We're blockading this system, prepare to die' otherwise theyre just another murder hobo killing for the fun of it

Everything every sane player has their CMDR do is for their own gratification. That doesn't mean said CMDR doesn't have multiple compelling in-game/character reasons for doing whatever they are doing.

As for macros...I'm a purist, I won't even use them for pips, let alone comms. Not that speaking to one's opponents is usually a good idea.

If someone tells me why they are attacking my CMDR, I use the time to get a head start on driving them off or destroying their ship. I can't think of a single occasion where anyone who ever wasted one single millisecond speaking to my CMDR after doing anything vaguely hostile was better off for it, but I can think of countless times where I was able to escape or turn the tables because they were wasting time talking when they should have been acting.

Simple, the defending ship should register how many ships are firing upon it and the bounties/penalties should be distrubuted accordingly.

!v! - standard bounty for the attacker,
2v1 - 500k bounty
3v1 - 1mil bounty, high risk of ATR interference
4v1 - Double rebuy + 5mil bounty, certain interference of ATR

Assault is assault in most jurisdictions, irrespective of how lopsided the encounter. In game C&P is there to impose penalties for CMDRs who get caught violating in-game law, not dictate sportsmanship terms to players.

Surely a wing that capitalizes on their opponent's mistakes (say, ganking a Commander that sloppily jumped into a system ahead of their wing) shouldn't be punished? How would your system account for situations where lopsided odds were the result of superior tactics and organization on one side (or the lack thereof on the other)?

What about poor outfitting choices and the like? I knew a PowerPlayer that was able to pull two escorts away from a Type 9 and then score a kill on said Type 9, who was shieldless, unengineered, etc. What happens there?

The fault is neither in our ships nor our foes, but in ourselves.

None of those 'brave souls' who are going to interdict me will do so if there is even a remote a chance that I could beat them.

I frequently drive off, and more rarely destroy, CMDR vessels that interdict my CMDR's vessel.

And as I refuse to do the PP nonsense to get those little OP'd trinkets for weps and shields, I will never be a match for even a one-on-one encounter against a full-tilt PvP ship.

None of the PP modules are game changers and many dedicated PvP vessels don't feature any.

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

There are no ducks.

You'll find the vast majority of players aren't even kitted out for PvP (interdictor), and at that point there's nowt to worry about.

I rarely put an interdictor on my combat vessels.

There are valid reasons for attacking, however if someone attacks without stating a reason then I make the assumption that its for their own gratification

Im very happy for someone to interdict me but have a macro ready saying 'We're blockading this system, prepare to die' otherwise theyre just another murder hobo killing for the fun of it

Everything every sane player has their CMDR do is for their own gratification. That doesn't mean said CMDR doesn't have multiple compelling in-game/character reasons for doing whatever they are doing.

As for macros...I'm a purist, I won't even use them for pips, let alone comms. Not that speaking to one's opponents is usually a good idea.

If someone tells me why they are attacking my CMDR, I use the time to get a head start on driving them off or destroying their ship. I can't think of a single occasion where anyone who ever wasted one single millisecond speaking to my CMDR after doing anything vaguely hostile was better off for it, but I can think of countless times where I was able to escape or turn the tables because they were wasting time talking when they should have been acting.

Simple, the defending ship should register how many ships are firing upon it and the bounties/penalties should be distrubuted accordingly.

!v! - standard bounty for the attacker,
2v1 - 500k bounty
3v1 - 1mil bounty, high risk of ATR interference
4v1 - Double rebuy + 5mil bounty, certain interference of ATR

Assault is assault in most jurisdictions, irrespective of how lopsided the encounter. In game C&P is there to impose penalties for CMDRs who get caught violating in-game law, not dictate sportsmanship terms to players.

Surely a wing that capitalizes on their opponent's mistakes (say, ganking a Commander that sloppily jumped into a system ahead of their wing) shouldn't be punished? How would your system account for situations where lopsided odds were the result of superior tactics and organization on one side (or the lack thereof on the other)?

What about poor outfitting choices and the like? I knew a PowerPlayer that was able to pull two escorts away from a Type 9 and then score a kill on said Type 9, who was shieldless, unengineered, etc. What happens there?

The fault is neither in our ships nor our foes, but in ourselves.
 
None of the PP modules are game changers and many dedicated PvP vessels don't feature any.

Well, maybe many don't. But I was given the impression by some here that many do. So who to believe?

Prismatic shields? Those 'sneak through the shields and kill the shield generator or FSD' weps?

I have no personal experience with any of this, and am (maybe wrongly) going on what I have discussed/read about on these forums over the last year and a half.

But I'm not interested in loosing my ship just to find out just how lopsided a one-on-one would be. If I could even get a one-on-one. Last time in open the first cmdr I meet immediately asks if I want to 'wing up'. Seriously? Whatever.
 
Well, maybe many don't. But I was given the impression by some here that many do. So who to believe?

Prismatic shields? Those 'sneak through the shields and kill the shield generator or FSD' weps?

I have no personal experience with any of this, and am (maybe wrongly) going on what I have discussed/read about on these forums over the last year and a half.

My CMDR has never been pledged to a power and I've never felt particularly disadvantaged for this. Sure, some of the modules are neat (I've had every single one of them used against me more times than I can count...except for the mining lance), but they are essentially variations of existing gear with as many downsides as upsides. The more unique they are the more niche their utility. Many of them are borderline useless as even the most commonly fielded few have non-PP alternatives.

Prismatic shields are stronger shields that come with the downsides of increased mass, higher power draw, and worse regeneration rate.

The Grom Containment missile reboots the FSD and it's effect lasts longer than the Engineered equivalent, but it's hardly devoid of counters and is rarely employed outside of very lopsided encounters because it's not very good against those who actually intend to stick around.

There are a handful of weapons and effects that can destroy a shield generator through the shields and none of them are contingent on power play. Flechette launchers are from the tech broker, while reverberating cascade torpedoes and mines are Engineering. Thermal load attacks have been nerfed so many times that it's virtually irrelevant; no one is going to melt your shields and no one equips Retributors anymore because they are a waste of a hardpoint.

But I'm not interested in loosing my ship just to find out just how lopsided a one-on-one would be.

If you have Horizons, you can easily have a competitive load out. You don't need PP gear or Guardian tech and the tech broker stuff is either useless or super niche.

Many encounters would still be extremely lopsided, but that would almost certainly be a result of differing levels of experience rather than what equipment was available.

If I could even get a one-on-one.

It wouldn't be hard to make a few acquaintances that you could have controlled duels/matches against, with minimal risks.

Last time in open the first cmdr I meet immediately asks if I want to 'wing up'. Seriously? Whatever.

Probably just someone who wanted to group up to do some bounty hunting or missions. Most won't have any ulterior motives.
 
Ladies and gents, please can we get back on topic instead of getting into verbal fisti-cuffs.

To those of you that have contributed to the thread so far I thank you.

To those of you that came here to pick holes in my post and cause the thread to derail I would rather you refrain from saying anything further because your input is not helpful.

Thanks
 
Back
Top Bottom