PVP piracy - Destroyed three trader ships over 4t of cargo... help me understand

[Sterling MH]

Your suggestion would kill PvP piracy.

What you want is PvP. And you still get that. If you want piracy, pirate NPCs. And when players see you with your bounty from piracy, they will interdict you and fight you, therefore this is PvP and piracy.

So you get PvP and in a pirate role.

If you need to make players pay when they have no way to hurt you, that's not PvP, that's griefing.

If you HAVE to do that for it to be PvP Piracy, then it should die. Just like griefing should die.

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There are some people that want to get pirated.

So you can still get pirating on players. They'll be the players on the OpenPvP server.

What YOU seem to feel is that others need to be there so you can get your play of game the way you like it, but you don't feel that anyone else has the right to the same. I'm afraid I don't care if your kind of player dies out. Good riddance.

Pirate players will still exist, and pirate player will still do fine. As fine, anyway, as the game lets them.

But I suspect that the anguish you cause is why you do Piracy, if only because it's not profitable enough in game to make you want to do it for that reason alone. And if that is the case, then like I say, your kind can die. You don't get to grief.

 

[Comrade Error]

The symantics argument is thrilling, but around here this is the definition of combat logging that actually matters:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ging”-Update?p=1642728&viewfull=1#post1642728


Advocating for such on the forum will result in moderation.

No Jenner but you see, if I or people I agree with do it then it's ok, WHAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?! IZ SIMPLE.

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What you want is PvP. And you still get that. If you want piracy, pirate NPCs. And when players see you with your bounty from piracy, they will interdict you and fight you, therefore this is PvP and piracy.

So you get PvP and in a pirate role.

If you need to make players pay when they have no way to hurt you, that's not PvP, that's griefing.

If you HAVE to do that for it to be PvP Piracy, then it should die. Just like griefing should die.

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So you can still get pirating on players. They'll be the players on the OpenPvP server.

What YOU seem to feel is that others need to be there so you can get your play of game the way you like it, but you don't feel that anyone else has the right to the same. I'm afraid I don't care if your kind of player dies out. Good riddance.

Pirate players will still exist, and pirate player will still do fine. As fine, anyway, as the game lets them.

But I suspect that the anguish you cause is why you do Piracy, if only because it's not profitable enough in game to make you want to do it for that reason alone. And if that is the case, then like I say, your kind can die. You don't get to grief.

wrrooooom!

 

[CMDR GTR2014]

The symantics argument is thrilling, but around here this is the definition of combat logging that actually matters:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ging”-Update?p=1642728&viewfull=1#post1642728


Advocating for such on the forum will result in moderation.

Look this guy already did bad stuff , at least 3 times on the SAME topic... And received 3 moderation warnings... I think he will not "take a hint" or stop...

 

[CMDR LACEWING]

snip

First off: Piracy is not griefing. Maybe you define that as griefing, it's not though. Secondly: Fighting bounty hunters is not PvP-Piracy. And last: There would be even less traders on Open-PvP than right now in Open.

 

[Sterling MH]

First off: Piracy is not griefing.

So we're on Piracy now. Well pirate the NPCs. So there's no need for PvP for you to pirate.

 

[CMDR DarkxXPhoenixXx]

I want to ask, in most of these griefing cases, how much reaction time did you have and what did you do upon entry into a know CG system that's bound to have player activity?

1. Did you check your radar 5 to 10 seconds(to allow for instance loading) after entry to the system?

1a. If so, if you saw a commander did you scan him or ignore him?

2. Did you monitor your radar and notice the activity of the player?

2a. Did you notice the player attempting to maneuver behind you or align for potential interdiction?

Steps to take if it looks like you're about to be interdicted or it looks sketchy.

1. If it looks like you're about to be interdicted, open your throttle and make a hard turn upwards until you're 90 degrees from your previous position or 180 degrees of you have extra time.

The attacker has to align with the back of your ship. Speed will buy you a couple extra seconds of time when it comes to the next step.

2. After 1 to 2 seconds of speed, emergency drop by double pressing in rapid succession your FSD toggle button. This will cause an emergency FSD shut down and you will spin on exit.

3. Immediately select a system and start boosting in it's direction to gain distance from the wake point. The potential attacker has to slow down and in some cases turn around to drop on your wake. You will have some time but don't be slow.

4. Once your FSD cooldown ends (45 seconds) jump to the system and come back potentially in solo (I don't like solo)

These steps don't cover all situations and may not work everytime, but in my experience they helps. I've not died to a random player interdiction in I'd say 8 to 9 months.

 

[Comrade Error]

First off: Piracy is not griefing. Maybe you define that as griefing, it's not though. Secondly: Fighting bounty hunters is not PvP-Piracy. And last: There would be even less traders on Open-PvP than right now in Open.

Why are you even still trying dude? At best he's a troll at worst he's hopeless. Most of what he says makes no sense and even when I factually prove him wrong he'll keep going.

 

[Mendaharin Tusca]

Do you have any numbers? I don't doubt the amount of pirates is low but do you have numbers on the amount of babykilling UKIP ISIS members there are vs just PvPers?

Ofcourse I don't, that is why I say it is an assumption. All I can say is that I have never met a pirate ingame, only pvp'ers who open fire the second they stop spinning like a dreidel.

 

[Sterling MH]

I want to ask, in most of these griefing cases, how much reaction time did you have and what did you do upon entry into a know CG system that's bound to have player activity?

No, I'd count going into a CG as accepting PvP even if you're loaded out as a trader. Same as if you jumped into an anarchy system. The finer grain of decision is why something other than a "Friendly fire on/off" (at least on login, so you can't flip in and out during combat or a mission to cheat it) is better.

But if you're making your trading run many jumps from an anarchy port and deep in high security areas, NPC pirates are not a problem, because spawn rules are obeyed, and you get them in certain zones you can avoid easily. PCs aren't bound as yet to it.

So if I see in SC someone in a fighter vectoring to me and I don't feel like dancing (e.g. not dressed for it), I'll go to the menu and log off and either wait five minutes or log in on Open to continue. Because as it is I can't see any "Pirate" player risking a darn thing and see no reason why I should let them cause me grief for their jollies.

 

[CMDR LACEWING]

Why are you even still trying dude? At best he's a troll at worst he's hopeless. Most of what he says makes no sense and even when I factually prove him wrong he'll keep going.

Because it's more engaging than to pirate NPCs.

 

[Comrade Error]

Because it's more engaging than to pirate NPCs.

That is true.. Then again I find shooting a rock more engaging than PvE piracy.

 

[CMDR DarkxXPhoenixXx]

No, I'd count going into a CG as accepting PvP even if you're loaded out as a trader. Same as if you jumped into an anarchy system. The finer grain of decision is why something other than a "Friendly fire on/off" (at least on login, so you can't flip in and out during combat or a mission to cheat it) is better.

But if you're making your trading run many jumps from an anarchy port and deep in high security areas, NPC pirates are not a problem, because spawn rules are obeyed, and you get them in certain zones you can avoid easily. PCs aren't bound as yet to it.

So if I see in SC someone in a fighter vectoring to me and I don't feel like dancing (e.g. not dressed for it), I'll go to the menu and log off and either wait five minutes or log in on Open to continue. Because as it is I can't see any "Pirate" player risking a darn thing and see no reason why I should let them cause me grief for their jollies.

Sorry, you misunderstand me. I am trying to offer a way to not get griefed. My way is within game mechanics and yes using your brain a bit. Not logging out and draining any excitement from the encounter.

 

[VR Lucian Arkright]

So if I see in SC someone in a fighter vectoring to me and I don't feel like dancing (e.g. not dressed for it), I'll go to the menu and log off and either wait five minutes or log in on Open to continue. Because as it is I can't see any "Pirate" player risking a darn thing and see no reason why I should let them cause me grief for their jollies.

And that is fine. Logging off gracefully, at any point, is fine and your choice. Deliberately and suddenly terminating the connection (alt F4, pulling plug, etc.) to avoid a negative repercussion (eg. destruction in combat) is not.

 

[ick]

The answer to the OP's questions.

Spite Happens
October 24, 2013 @ 12:16pm
by Freakonomics
Season 4, Episode 3

LISTEN NOW:
http://freakonomics.com/podcast/spite-happens/

Since all questions and concerns are answered by this podcast you can lock the thread now!

Seems to me that this is just more evidence that Frontier needs to IMPLEMENT A PUNISHMENT SYSTEM THAT IS MORE THAN A YEAR OVERDUE.

 

[Vasco Sapien]

So I was pirating at the Parun CG last night and had 6, or so, customers. My demands were: drop 4t (four!) of cargo. I've stated demands before opening fire (and waited for a response) and then repeatedly while firing at the target. I let players go if they dropped cargo even if they tried to run first (other pirates may not).

But: Some players chose to be destroyed rather than dropping 4t. They are in Open with the chance of piracy and when someone comes along with very reasonable demands they seem to prefer losing their ship over it??

Help me understand.... Why?

Because the cost of being destroyed in game isnt high enough...

If it was higher.... you as a pirate would be more careful and he as the pirated would also be more careful.

more realistic.

 

[Sterling MH]

And that is fine. Logging off gracefully, at any point, is fine and your choice. Deliberately and suddenly terminating the connection (alt F4, pulling plug, etc.) to avoid a negative repercussion (eg. destruction in combat) is not.

But some still call it combat logging. Some call it that if you log off after escaping or before, within 15 minutes and even longer. This was hashed out on another "PvP am great" thread, genuinely true. They were against even the 15 second cooldown at ANY point there's another player visible (they didn't specifically say then, but the only other option would be NEVER logging off).

They call it cheating because to them this is the beginning of combat if you do it in SC before interdiction, and if you do it after you get away, hiwake or low, it's STILL cheating CLing because they wanted to re-interdict you, so combat is still ongoing from their POV.

I think you're only actual problem here and why we've been at loggerheads is because you've never read what PvPers do when they're asked for when it's allowed to leave the game to avoid their attentions. If you did, you'd realise how many of the things you're complaining about me doing are the result of having to try to accommodate the insistences of PvPers.

They have said on this forum, that CLin is leaving before or after combat, and that even logging off is a violation and cheating if the PvPer wants to continue. They want either solo for everyone complaining about PvP or never logging off.

Oddly, though they keep telling "go Solo if you don't like PvP", they worry that PvP only would have no traders. That, however, would happen if they go solo too.. They also insist that it's not Open==PvP,despite elsewhere saying if you don't like or want PvP, you don't go Open.

You haven't been bothered and so you've missed how daft their stance is, how self-centred and unbalanced.

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Because the cost of being destroyed in game isnt high enough...

If it was higher.... you as a pirate would be more careful and he as the pirated would also be more careful.

more realistic.

No, the pirate is in a combat machine and tooled up for combat, whilst the trader is tooled up for trading and in a trade ship.

the pirate isn't risking anything unless someone else in a fighter comes in and helps the trader out. NPC security never get there in time, and no way for PCs to know about it to help.

 

[Kaa Mchorror]

But some still call it combat logging. Some call it that if you log off after escaping or before, within 15 minutes and even longer. This was hashed out on another "PvP am great" thread, genuinely true. They were against even the 15 second cooldown at ANY point there's another player visible (they didn't specifically say then, but the only other option would be NEVER logging off).

They call it cheating because to them this is the beginning of combat if you do it in SC before interdiction, and if you do it after you get away, hiwake or low, it's STILL cheating CLing because they wanted to re-interdict you, so combat is still ongoing from their POV.

I think you're only actual problem here and why we've been at loggerheads is because you've never read what PvPers do when they're asked for when it's allowed to leave the game to avoid their attentions. If you did, you'd realise how many of the things you're complaining about me doing are the result of having to try to accommodate the insistences of PvPers.

They have said on this forum, that CLin is leaving before or after combat, and that even logging off is a violation and cheating if the PvPer wants to continue. They want either solo for everyone complaining about PvP or never logging off.

Oddly, though they keep telling "go Solo if you don't like PvP", they worry that PvP only would have no traders. That, however, would happen if they go solo too.. They also insist that it's not Open==PvP,despite elsewhere saying if you don't like or want PvP, you don't go Open.

You haven't been bothered and so you've missed how daft their stance is, how self-centred and unbalanced.

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No, the pirate is in a combat machine and tooled up for combat, whilst the trader is tooled up for trading and in a trade ship.

the pirate isn't risking anything unless someone else in a fighter comes in and helps the trader out. NPC security never get there in time, and no way for PCs to know about it to help.

Your last sentence is hilarious.

 

[VR Lucian Arkright]

But some still call it combat logging. Some call it that if you log off after escaping or before, within 15 minutes and even longer. This was hashed out on another "PvP am great" thread, genuinely true. They were against even the 15 second cooldown at ANY point there's another player visible (they didn't specifically say then, but the only other option would be NEVER logging off).

They call it cheating because to them this is the beginning of combat if you do it in SC before interdiction, and if you do it after you get away, hiwake or low, it's STILL cheating CLing because they wanted to re-interdict you, so combat is still ongoing from their POV.

I think you're only actual problem here and why we've been at loggerheads is because you've never read what PvPers do when they're asked for when it's allowed to leave the game to avoid their attentions. If you did, you'd realise how many of the things you're complaining about me doing are the result of having to try to accommodate the insistences of PvPers.

They have said on this forum, that CLin is leaving before or after combat, and that even logging off is a violation and cheating if the PvPer wants to continue. They want either solo for everyone complaining about PvP or never logging off.

Oddly, though they keep telling "go Solo if you don't like PvP", they worry that PvP only would have no traders. That, however, would happen if they go solo too.. They also insist that it's not Open==PvP,despite elsewhere saying if you don't like or want PvP, you don't go Open.

You haven't been bothered and so you've missed how daft their stance is, how self-centred and unbalanced.

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No, the pirate is in a combat machine and tooled up for combat, whilst the trader is tooled up for trading and in a trade ship.

the pirate isn't risking anything unless someone else in a fighter comes in and helps the trader out. NPC security never get there in time, and no way for PCs to know about it to help.

I am well aware of what some PVPers have stated, and I reject that definition as I rejected yours. In both cases, it doesn't matter what you or they want to be the case, only what FDEV have stated in the past. Logging out with the counter is fine and is not Combat Logging. Combat Logging is bad. Trying to call it something else does not stop it being bad. Stop trying to justify Combat Logging.

I am also well aware of how calls to "git gud or get Solo" do not help. I have absolutely no interest in the competitive side of PVP that results in leaderboards, tournaments and the like, and 'emergent gameplay' is one of my most hated phrases. This is the main reason I believe in PVE mode, as if everyone that didn't want PVP just went to Solo or Mobius, the end result is the same for the PVP mode, the only difference is where the non-PVP players are likely to be, in a single universe rather than scattered into smaller shards.

 

[Sterling MH]

I am well aware of what some PVPers have stated, and I reject that definition as I rejected yours. In both cases, it doesn't matter what you or they want to be the case

It totally does when you're conversing with them. Because if you don't use their definition, you won't be understood.

Communication. A shared language.

So you have no ineterest? Why did you bother talking to me in the first place then? YOU started it. If you had no interest, then you showed it oddly to say the least.

 

[starman]

A classic flaw of ED could be foreign customers may not understand English so asking for cargo in English won't help

How will we ever expect the communicate with ET in that case!