Python/Class 6 thruster issue? (Devs please have a look)

[Roadblock]

I never did, but wouldn't mind the same happening to my Viper (which basically already received similar changes in the past).
I have assets worth of 30 millions, it's not like I couldn't grind to a Python if I didn't want to, I just hate the repetitive character trading has.
Still I am very experienced in combat and therefore, at least I believe so, eligible to make those statements.

Edit: "We don't need and much less deserve anything 'given' to us before they are allowed to do their jobs."
This stands as my opinion despite I have never flown the Python, it has nothing to do with it.

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Well but that's exactly my point. Not a single one of those criticizing the changes made to the Python ever actually experienced them (because they are not yet implemented, duh..).

I wasn't asking to try to discredit your opinion if you hadn't, I was just curious if you had.

I'll tell you about my little love affair with this ship: Since I started, I've spent nearly all of my time just grinding out trading (One of my goals in the game is triple Elite, and doing trading first seems to facilitate the other two). I worked my way up from a sidewinder, then an adder, doing missions. Then I saved up enough for a Cobra, and traded rares. Then on to a type-6 and later a type-7 as I found some good normal trade routes. Somewhere along the way, I bought and set up a Viper for combat and did a bit of that. When I finally got enough to purchase a Python, I was thrilled to be able to get back into a nice multi-role ship so I could use one ship for a few different things!

I really hadn't read much about it on the forums, so I was blown away by how awesome it was. I loved everything about it: that engine sound! The fact that it was maneuverable enough for me to run fixed weapons, the cargo space, landing on medium pads again! I love that I have a lot more firepower and fights don't take nearly as long as they do in my Viper! I'm not a huge fan of the fuel costs, maintenance costs or jump range, but I figured those were reasonable trade offs. But the important thing for me: I was having more fun than I'd ever had since I started playing.

So, while the mature side of me can understand that the ship in its current state doesn't fit into their vision of what they wanted, I am quite sad that the game is certainly going to become less fun for me once the changes hit (at least in the short term). I hope I'm wrong and it will still be fun to fly and I can use it like I have been, but if not, then I'll hope that I can find something else that provides the same leveling of wide-grinned, silly fun that I've been having. I hope someday they introduce some sort of ship that is capable of carrying a couple of large weapons, and has combat performance somewhere in the ballpark of the current Python.

 

[Bertak]

Only good thing about the nerf is it is going to save a ton of credits and time. No need to grind a trade route to get a bigger and badder ship when a cheap 2 million cr ship is better than a 200 million cr ship.

 

[DocStone]

I get that but the Python's current state was a mistake, not something that was intended in the first place. Now we will get the correct values for the (already) correct fuel and repair costs.

Wait, I'm sorry. Where was it said that the Python's current state was a "mistake"? Mike has already said that things will be "tweaked" depending on feedback from various sources, but at no point has he said the original stats were a "mistake". The running costs for the Python are astronomical, but when it's performance was taken into consideration then it grudgingly made (expensive) sense. You can't change a Ferrari into an Audi diesel and still expect the driver to pay the Ferrari fuel, service and repair costs.

The costs, like the original performance, will be subject to review and modifications, all I am asking is if they will be lowered to reflect the change in performance.

 

[Aleksej]

G

Very happy to hear about the agility and speed reductions. The Python doesn't match it's description text at all currently, nor it's history in the Elite series. I don't mind the FdL constrictors being powerful when pressed into a fighting role, but they are not dedicated combat ships. Large ships in general need to give a sense of mass and inertia, and not move like fighters writ large.

I partially disagree. Python is very light compared to the thruster output, which means it still should benefit from these factors.

 

[Starbuckz]

Wait, I'm sorry. Where was it said that the Python's current state was a "mistake"? Mike has already said that things will be "tweaked" depending on feedback from various sources, but at no point has he said the original stats were a "mistake". The running costs for the Python are astronomical, but when it's performance was taken into consideration then it grudgingly made (expensive) sense. You can't change a Ferrari into an Audi diesel and still expect the driver to pay the Ferrari fuel, service and repair costs.

The costs, like the original performance, will be subject to review and modifications, all I am asking is if they will be lowered to reflect the change in performance.

Of course only Mike can provide you with a sufficient answer but it has been said that the Python as of now, does not fulfill the role it was originally intended to fulfill. Therefore I said it was a mistake. It is still a very big and heavy ship, of course fuel and repair costs are high.

Your comparison saying the current Python (ferrari) being downgraded to a audi diesel is a little exaggerated.
Like I said before, I think the current costs (yes, I have seen the numbers, it's much...) are the ones originally intended for the actual purpose of the ship that is now being established.

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I wasn't asking to try to discredit your opinion if you hadn't, I was just curious if you had.

I'll tell you about my little love affair with this ship: Since I started, I've spent nearly all of my time just grinding out trading (One of my goals in the game is triple Elite, and doing trading first seems to facilitate the other two). I worked my way up from a sidewinder, then an adder, doing missions. Then I saved up enough for a Cobra, and traded rares. Then on to a type-6 and later a type-7 as I found some good normal trade routes. Somewhere along the way, I bought and set up a Viper for combat and did a bit of that. When I finally got enough to purchase a Python, I was thrilled to be able to get back into a nice multi-role ship so I could use one ship for a few different things!

I really hadn't read much about it on the forums, so I was blown away by how awesome it was. I loved everything about it: that engine sound! The fact that it was maneuverable enough for me to run fixed weapons, the cargo space, landing on medium pads again! I love that I have a lot more firepower and fights don't take nearly as long as they do in my Viper! I'm not a huge fan of the fuel costs, maintenance costs or jump range, but I figured those were reasonable trade offs. But the important thing for me: I was having more fun than I'd ever had since I started playing.

So, while the mature side of me can understand that the ship in its current state doesn't fit into their vision of what they wanted, I am quite sad that the game is certainly going to become less fun for me once the changes hit (at least in the short term). I hope I'm wrong and it will still be fun to fly and I can use it like I have been, but if not, then I'll hope that I can find something else that provides the same leveling of wide-grinned, silly fun that I've been having. I hope someday they introduce some sort of ship that is capable of carrying a couple of large weapons, and has combat performance somewhere in the ballpark of the current Python.

I feel you. Don't forget this game is still missing a ton of ships. I'm sure we will have our dedicated fighters someday.

 

[MrReynolds]

The costs, like the original performance, will be subject to review and modifications, all I am asking is if they will be lowered to reflect the change in performance.

lol, I hope my sell cost doesn't reflect this new price!!! Would hate to dump off the old bird and ALSO lose money on her!!!!

I don't know why they don't keep things how they are until a NEW expensive fighter comes along......

 

[Shanaeri]

Only good thing about the nerf is it is going to save a ton of credits and time. No need to grind a trade route to get a bigger and badder ship when a cheap 2 million cr ship is better than a 200 million cr ship.

Hmm. This has interesting ramifications for a lot of players reasons for continuing to play and of their sense of progression. If a c120m ship doesn't feel like it's a c120m ship and there is very little perceived difference between that and a c2m one then they'll think what's the point. They'll either just stick with a small disposable ship or stop playing..

 

[Shads]

Have to say, the mod/dev involvement in this thread is very encouraging. So many game forums get nowhere near this involvement from those that can make a difference

 

[Shintai]

A FSD was already a requirement. I dont hope a 16mio A thrusters is the new requriement...with A shield.

I assume the Imperial Clipper is up for a nerf too, since its already used as a Python rival but at 40% the price. Its already significantly faster than the Python.

 

[Starbuckz]

I don't know why they don't keep things how they are until a NEW expensive fighter comes along......

I don't understand the logic behind that. If some gadget of yours is broken, wouldn't you send it in for repair instead of waiting for the new generation and buying that one?

That's what the devs are doing, they repair the things that are currently there. Waiting for the new thing makes no sense.

 

[Shanaeri]

I don't understand the logic behind that. If some gadget of yours is broken, wouldn't you send it in for repair instead of waiting for the new generation and buying that one?

That's what the devs are doing, they repair the things that are currently there. Waiting for the new thing makes no sense.

Except in this case they are changing your iphone 6 to an Iphone 4 while you sleep making you hope there's a new Android phone out soon

 

[Bertak]

Hmm. This has interesting ramifications for a lot of players reasons for continuing to play and of their sense of progression. If a c120m ship doesn't feel like it's a c120m ship and there is very little perceived difference between that and a c2m one then they'll think what's the point. They'll either just stick with a small disposable ship or stop playing..

I grinded trade routes since just before christmas just to get a python. I just got it less than a week ago and spent over 100 million cr in up grades. As soon as it gets nerfed i will trade it in for a viper. I hope they hurry with a bigger fighter ship worth working for before i get bored and move along.

 

[Starbuckz]

Except in this case they are changing your iphone 6 to an Iphone 4 while you sleep

Thank god I am dedicated to Google and Android then

I think we are going in circles here. All questions have been answered and we have to wait for the actual results to come in.
Not much point in going on here, good night everyone, it was fun and informative

--
Starbuckz out.

 

[Stedgar]

Wait, I'm sorry. Where was it said that the Python's current state was a "mistake"? Mike has already said that things will be "tweaked" depending on feedback from various sources, but at no point has he said the original stats were a "mistake". The running costs for the Python are astronomical, but when it's performance was taken into consideration then it grudgingly made (expensive) sense. You can't change a Ferrari into an Audi diesel and still expect the driver to pay the Ferrari fuel, service and repair costs.

The costs, like the original performance, will be subject to review and modifications, all I am asking is if they will be lowered to reflect the change in performance.

I agree, Mike is using data from people who are complaining that their Viper or Cobra are no match for the Python. I don't think those people realize that to repair a hull on those small ships at 85% damage will cost them few hundred thousand. The same amount of damage on a Python will cost more than the new price of the Cobra and Viper combined. Instead of nerfing the Python for those folks to be happier, I think they should be told to earn the credits to buy a Python and until then don't mess with Pythons. It's a killer ship and the people who own them worked hard to get them.

 

[Logios]

I don't understand the logic behind that. If some gadget of yours is broken, wouldn't you send it in for repair instead of waiting for the new generation and buying that one?

That's what the devs are doing, they repair the things that are currently there. Waiting for the new thing makes no sense.

Because it leaves a big gap in high priced combat ships. I think there would be a LOT less complaining right now if people had a high priced alternative they could take into combat. Right now the Python is really the only ship that fits that role. Combat progression shouldn't end with the Viper, a ship you can pick up after only a few hours of playing.

 

[Starbuckz]

I agree, Mike is using data from people who are complaining that their Viper or Cobra are no match for the Python. I don't think those people realize that to repair a hull on those small ships at 85% damage will cost them few hundred thousand. The same amount of damage on a Python will cost more than the new price of the Cobra and Viper combined. Instead of nerfing the Python for those folks to be happier, I think they should be told to earn the credits to buy a Python and until then don't mess with Pythons. It's a killer ship and the people who own them worked hard to get them.

Geez now you've drawn me back in... No, Mike is not just "using data from people who are complaining that their Viper or Cobra are no match for the Python" Which is wrong by the way, because my Viper sure is up for it

The Python does not fit its role and lore (hehe anagrams) and exceeded its original purpose. It's a huge ship behaving like a small and nimble fighter, it is obviously a little off (blame physics).

 

[Cyb]

So, it's destined to be the Type 7 and a half then, but can land on a medium pad, slower than an Anaconda, but with less range ? I'm struggling to understand why the base cost and running costs are worth it to haul another 50 or so cargo per trip. I'm also trying to work out what is the point of earning credits to buy more expensive ships if they are all to be "balanced" to pacify whining Viper pilots ?

 

[Shintai]

So, it's destined to be the Type 7 and a half then, but can land on a medium pad, slower than an Anaconda, but with less range ? I'm struggling to understand why the base cost and running costs are worth it to haul another 50 or so cargo per trip. I'm also trying to work out what is the point of earning credits to buy more expensive ships if they are all to be "balanced" to pacify whining Viper pilots ?

Thats why I dont like the axe method. Manuvability, speed and shield all in 1 go. And not just small numbers, no its 17-33%. I am sure Frontier will have to buff the Python again. Either in some of the same areas or in others. Specially the already popular Imperial Clipper will gain a good influx of former Python owners.

It seems someone forgot the low range and very high running cost that offsets some of the Pythons benefits.

 

[Flyinpiranha]

Only good thing about the nerf is it is going to save a ton of credits and time. No need to grind a trade route to get a bigger and badder ship when a cheap 2 million cr ship is better than a 200 million cr ship.

Yep, I'll be skipping the Python. I can't for the life of me see its worth now, even as a trade ship with how much it costs for fuel, repairs, upgrades, etc ... absolutely no point.

Hmm. This has interesting ramifications for a lot of players reasons for continuing to play and of their sense of progression. If a c120m ship doesn't feel like it's a c120m ship and there is very little perceived difference between that and a c2m one then they'll think what's the point. They'll either just stick with a small disposable ship or stop playing..

Eh, it really brings me down actually. I enjoy trading but I also enjoy bounty hunting, the point was to get to a better ship, have better X and more viable Y. This takes out the only step above a Viper. It's like they say "can a Viper beat this? No? We should change it then".

But, I think I want this game to be something different than what the developers seem to be taking it. Just have to watch I guess.

 

[Roadblock]

Thats why I dont like the axe method. Manuvability, speed and shield all in 1 go. And not just small numbers, no its 17-33%. I am sure Frontier will have to buff the Python again. Either in some of the same areas or in others. Specially the already popular Imperial Clipper will gain a good influx of former Python owners.

Agreed. I had hoped they would make smaller, incremental changes to fine tune it, rather than rather large changes in multiple areas, as you say.

Speaking of which... Why is the Clipper so fast? Its base hull mass is even higher than the Python's. I just set one up very similar to the Python I used in my initial test, and it comes in at 527.6T, but it's boosted speed is well over 400 (from what I've read). That seems very off to me...

I haven't flown the clipper, so I don't have any idea how well it turns, but I'm guessing it's worse than the Python. Maybe this weekend, I'll try to grind out some Imperial rep and pick one up so I can do some tests on it.