Python/Class 6 thruster issue? (Devs please have a look)

[Logios]

So, it's destined to be the Type 7 and a half then, but can land on a medium pad, slower than an Anaconda, but with less range ? I'm struggling to understand why the base cost and running costs are worth it to haul another 50 or so cargo per trip. I'm also trying to work out what is the point of earning credits to buy more expensive ships if they are all to be "balanced" to pacify whining Viper pilots ?

The sad thing is the whiners are just screwing themselves here. With the Python being just another trader ship what do PvPers and bounty hunters have to look forward to? Combat ship progression will end with the Viper, why bother farming up when one of the cheapest ships in the game is all you need? Anything after the Viper will just be for trading progression.

Agreed. I had hoped they would make smaller, incremental changes to fine tune it, rather than rather large changes in multiple areas, as you say.

This is really bothering me as well. I've seen time and time again designers make this same exact mistake. You'd think someone would finally learn that rolling out this many nerfs at once NEVER works out well.

 

[Flyinpiranha]

The sad thing is the whiners are just screwing themselves here. With the Python being just another trader ship what do PvPers and bounty hunters have to look forward to? Combat ship progression will end with the Viper, why bother farming up when one of the cheapest ships in the game is all you need? Anything after the Viper will just be for trading progression.

I just am unclear on what is the point of ship progression outside of trading. For traders you have bigger cargo, that's the main stat. But for combat it seems everything has to be balanced around the Viper.

My question, if the Python had 100 Cargo spaces, would it be considered fine? Or would the weapon loadout options, maneuverability, max speed, shield level, still be too much? If it's too much, are we not going to reach a cap on what is Combat ship progression? I just don't understand the longevity of the game if the Viper is going to be combat effective with every ship ever released. Or will the Viper eventually be made obsolete and the Python was just too quick to get to that point? The Sidewinder is a piece of crap for almost all jobs and I don't see people asking for that to be buffed, they just upgrade to a better ship.

 

[Logios]

I just am unclear on what is the point of ship progression outside of trading. For traders you have bigger cargo, that's the main stat. But for combat it seems everything has to be balanced around the Viper.

My question, if the Python had 100 Cargo spaces, would it be considered fine? Or would the weapon loadout options, maneuverability, max speed, shield level, still be too much? If it's too much, are we not going to reach a cap on what is Combat ship progression? I just don't understand the longevity of the game if the Viper is going to be combat effective with every ship ever released. Or will the Viper eventually be made obsolete and the Python was just too quick to get to that point?

Exactly, they are taking away all incentive to progress past a cheap Viper for combat. If you're a combat player why bother working your ass off to get a Python if it's not going to be much better than a ship that costs 350 times less? Why bother with the potential repair and insurance costs if it's not going to give you much of an advantage? Combat players aren't going to have much game longevity as progression will stop with one of the cheapest ships in the game. If they are really insistent on these nerfs we need something to fill the MASSIVE void in combat ships after the Viper.

 

[MrReynolds]

Ho hum.
All I play is this game (which speaks volumes in itself), but I am seriously thinking it's turning more into Elite trading.
But why trade when there's nothing to trade TO????

"ooooh, but wait to see what the FDL brings and then in 2017 the Vulture..........."
Bet the FDL won't be that expensive too!

 

[Frenotx]

Stat dump for those that care Just remember my percentages before were rough estimates. You might find solace or despair below:

Base Shield Health 390 - 260

0 Pips to engines
Maximum Speed 160 - 140
Max Boosted Speed 280 - 220

Max Forward Acceleration 32 - 30
Max Retro Acceleration 19 - 18
Max Transverse Acceleration 19 - 16

MaxPitchRate 30 - 22
MaxRollRate 100 - 90

4 Pips to engines
Maximum Speed 250 - 200
Max Boosted Speed 330 - 280
Max Pitch Rate 38 - 27

Thanks for giving us some hard values, Mike. The more of this kind of information, the better, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[mongo2006]

They'll be in the same update probably. The changes to the python is something like -17% to speeds, turn rates and accelerations, -33% to base shield strength roughly. This puts the flight model in a better place for a large fighting based ship and also leaves room for the other fighting ships to come so they can be more manoeuvrable than it. The python still has one of the best hard point placements when it can get its guns to bare on a target and it won't become a sitting duck either.

I'm sorry I invested 180,000,000 into the Python just to have it nurfed into something that has to run from a few Cobra's. Knowing that you're setting us up for more damage can you drop the damage and fuel cost? If the shields are cut and we can't inflict enough damage to justify the cost of the Python we have no reason to fly it.

 

[Redan]

@Mike Evans,

I know this thread is primarily about the Python, but can I please drop a quick question regarding the possible changes to balancing on other ships? Specifically with the Clipper. Any chance we can get the mass lock issue fixed before 1.1?

 

[Entilzar]

My biggest gripe with these short of changes are because there after the fact IE if you already have one, then the changes may make it less desirable to you for your given role and as such if you decide you have to change ships because of that you lose a bucket load of credits on the trade in, equally if the balance was right form the outset people would have gone for something else instead and saved the credits by not having to sell on based on balancing changes.

Enty

 

[MrReynolds]

I hope, in order to fit in with some people's idea of immersion there's a back story in the elite universe to tie these changes Together. followed by a free trade in weekend - with no loss in resale value.

Okay. Tongue in cheek there.....

 

[Jack Crow]

When are they planning this atrocity to the ship I've been working for? I finally purchased one today and have much to do to upgrade. All I can say is boooo. Stealing my time and credits as well as a sense of accomplishment.

 

[Max Rockatansky]

Just want to let you guys know that after this goes live it's not like it's set in stone. This ship as with the others will be looked at again and changes will be made if needed. I suspect we'll be getting lots of negative feedback from the change but I also suspect it'll die down and actually it'll be okay. If not then I guess I'll be reviewing people's opinions, youtube videos, our data mining and QA and making necessary changes.

the sad thing is no matter what you do, there will always be an all-knowing, small, loud and vocal minority that knows how to do your job better than you do .. or anyone else for that matter.

 

[Logios]

the sad thing is no matter what you do, there will always be an all-knowing, small, loud and vocal minority that knows how to do your job better than you do .. or anyone else for that matter.

Oh no, how dare someone have a differing opinion. How dare a company listen to it's consumers. We must put a stop to this immediately.

 

[Rendrek]

Congratulations to the Frontier Development team for successfully turning the Python into yet another trade ship. I can understand the cut to speed and maneuverability but a 33% reduction to shields? Really? I don't follow the logic behind that, if any exists. You've made the Python into a 56 million credit hunk of metal suited primarily for target practice in a PvP engagement. Now we wait several months/years for Frontier to roll out a ship that's actually capable of combat and doesn't stop at the Viper/Cobra.

 

[Rall]

Based solely on the mass of hysterical responses from Python owners I support these changes. For I desire more tears of the Internet too fuel my dark heart.

Honestly, wait for the actual changes to be made before decrying the end is nigh, it doesn't look to me the Python is to be sacrificed on the alter just yet.

 

[SuBSynk]

Congratulations to the Frontier Development team for successfully turning the Python into yet another trade ship. I can understand the cut to speed and maneuverability but a 33% reduction to shields? Really? I don't follow the logic behind that, if any exists. You've made the Python into a 56 million credit hunk of metal suited primarily for target practice in a PvP engagement. Now we wait several months/years for Frontier to roll out a ship that's actually capable of combat and doesn't stop at the Viper/Cobra.

The Python was never a fighter class vessel, you may have assumed it was but you were wrong.

The Vulture will be the large fighter class ship according to Mike. Its pretty obvious that we have a tiny selection of specialist fighters at the moment so i can see why you would get confused as this is the closest thing we have to a fighter that is large ..Unless you also include the Anaconda which also is not a fighter class

 

[IceFire122]

I can understand the cut to speed and maneuverability but a 33% reduction to shields? Really? I don't follow the logic behind that, if any exists.

The current Python has Anaconda level shields with max shield class (not base shield strength). The new Python will still have the second strongest shields of all ships currently in the game.
The Viper only has half of the new Pythons shield. Due to gun layout, the Python will still be a viable, though expensive choice above the Viper.
Even better, the shield strength gap between Imperial Clipper and Python will close (if you sacrifice the only class 7 internal on the Clipper) making the Clipper a better choice for gimbaled lovers.
Also, the decrease lowers the viability of a Python with an A4 shield for multirole. You have to stick to trading or sacrifice some cargo space, with the new version.

Is -33% a large relative decrease? Yes. Will this make the Python unsuitable for combat? I am not convinced yet.

Of course, the new purely combat role ships will change the game again.

 

[Derath]

The Python was never a fighter class vessel, you may have assumed it was but you were wrong.

The Vulture will be the large fighter class ship according to Mike. Its pretty obvious that we have a tiny selection of specialist fighters at the moment so i can see why you would get confused as this is the closest thing we have to a fighter that is large ..Unless you also include the Anaconda which also is not a fighter class

Is the python the best fighter currently yes or no?

Just gonna write the answer because everyone knows its yes, as the answers yes it is a fighter, superior trade vessels exist, superior fighters don't. You may have assumed that lore written about games has any factual basis but you'd be wrong, they could write that the viper was a trade vessel used mainly for exploration guess what.. still the best cheap fighter.

Text and wishful thinking doesn't make something good or bad at something else, the reality does.

 

[Johnny Spaceboots]

Is the python the best fighter currently yes or no?

Just gonna write the answer because everyone knows its yes, as the answers yes it is a fighter, superior trade vessels exist, superior fighters don't. You may have assumed that lore written about games has any factual basis but you'd be wrong, they could write that the viper was a trade vessel used mainly for exploration guess what.. still the best cheap fighter.

If you had actually bothered to play any of the previous Elite games, you would know that the Python was never the best fighter. It was a well armed trade craft, that's all. The devs have confirmed that the python being a god-ship was not intentional. Let it go.

 

[Derath]

If you had actually bothered to play any of the previous Elite games, you would know that the Python was never the best fighter. It was a well armed trade craft, that's all. The devs have confirmed that the python being a god-ship was not intentional. Let it go.

I did bother to play the previous elite games, now take those games, remove half the ships leaving the python as the best fighter, then tell me it wasn't the best fighter as that is what you are currently doing, you are claiming that a ship that doesn't exist, is the best.

the condescension presented from the post I quoted was immense it needed a beatdown it might as well have been said that beam lasers are the best weapon, you assumed it but you were wrong. Its military lasers.

 

[Andy Bond]

I have had a Python since Xmas - mostly spent my time bounty hunting and earned around 12Mcr from 1200+ kills including loads of Anacondas (elite missions as well)- its only got C class Shields and C Thrusters (which are worse than most of the others based on the above research) as 56Mcr for A Class Power and another 16Mcr for A class Thrusters is about an extra 7000 more kills objective. I found a combat ship I really enjoy - I was fed up with trading and don't want to go back to a Cobra or Viper to play. I don't care for the cargo space as much as the Combat capability - I now bounty hunt which earns peanuts by comparison to trading - so take 50-100 cargo space off the Python and leave me with an very expensive but capable combat ship. I use the best lower class A Power plant, but can't use C3 beams sustainably, so only have 4 * C2 and one large Class 3 Frag canon for Anacondas/other large ships.

The idea that I buy a ship in game that is changed after purchase is not good - what do I get for the grind to gain the nerf - at least 33% of ship value for the shield nerf and 17% extra for the turning/speed nerf, so somewhere around 18M plus 24M (42Mcr total) based on ship trade in as its likely to earn loads less bounty hunting in future and will be "less" fun to fly - Oh that is the point, its a game - so lets make it "less" fun for someone like me who backed since Alfa and played a lot - Cheers.