Python/Class 6 thruster issue? (Devs please have a look)

Johnny Spaceboots · Jan 22, 2015

Derath said:
I did bother to play the previous elite games, now take those games, remove half the ships leaving the python as the best fighter, then tell me it wasn't the best fighter as that is what you are currently doing, you are claiming that a ship that doesn't exist, is the best.

the condescension presented from the post I quoted was immense it needed a beatdown it might as well have been said that beam lasers are the best weapon, you assumed it but you were wrong. Its military lasers.

In my experience, the Python was no match for an ASP or a Cobra. It wasn't a fighter.

Dejay · Jan 22, 2015

Mike Evans said:
They'll be in the same update probably. The changes to the python is something like -17% to speeds, turn rates and accelerations, -33% to base shield strength roughly. This puts the flight model in a better place for a large fighting based ship and also leaves room for the other fighting ships to come so they can be more manoeuvrable than it. The python still has one of the best hard point placements when it can get its guns to bare on a target and it won't become a sitting duck either.

RIP Python. Vipers are going to own them now.

[video=youtube;WRQ52Q6UUaY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRQ52Q6UUaY&x-yt-ts=1421828030&x-yt-cl=84411374[/video]

Derath · Jan 22, 2015

Johnny Spaceboots said:
In my experience, the Python was no match for an ASP or a Cobra. It wasn't a fighter.

So in your experience a "python being a god-ship" was no match for an Asp or Cobra. I'm glad we cleared that up and I can indeed let it go, I mean the godship that gets handled by the two other multi role ships its almost like its a trade ship?!? We better tune down its combat abilities it can't even match up to the earlier multi-roles. The asp must be a fighter, and the cobra, and as the python is a godship they must both be godships.

Ok i'm tired of this I feel like i've got my point across think about what was said Its not a crime to be wrong, I wasn't disagreeing with the python nerf on a basic level I didn't like the tone used by another poster and thought i'd get a jibe in about how rude it was to say something isn't a fighter when it clearly is (currently).

Johnny Spaceboots · Jan 22, 2015

Derath said:
So in your experience a "python being a god-ship" was no match for an Asp or Cobra. I'm glad we cleared that up and I can indeed let it go, I mean the godship that gets handled by the two other multi role ships its almost like its a trade ship?!? We better tune down its combat abilities it can't even match up to the earlier multi-roles. The asp must be a fighter, and the cobra, and as the python is a godship they must both be godships.

Ok i'm tired of this I feel like i've got my point across think about what was said Its not a crime to be wrong, I wasn't disagreeing with the python nerf on a basic level I didn't like the tone used by another poster and thought i'd get a jibe in about how rude it was to say something isn't a fighter when it clearly is (currently).

I was talking about previous Elites, which ED should be in line with. The Python before these nerfs is/was absolutely a god-ship and was utterly ridiculous. It's an armed trader, not a battle-cruiser.

Shintai · Jan 22, 2015

I dont think anyone was against that the python needs adjustment since its supposed to be an armed merchant and not a fighter. But its rather the way its done. As its left now the python will have to be buffed again. Remember its a very expensive ship.

I would have done any balancing in at least 2 waves. Say 10% speed and 15% shield and see how it goes. Do another 10 and 15% again if needed. Secondly people forget how limited the python is in range, fuel and repair cost. While the range is hard to change due to the mechanics. I would say a 50% cost reduction in fuel usage and repair cost would be in its place.

I assume the Imperial Clipper will also get a speed reduction. Since its way too fast as it is today. Its also too cheap for the matter. +10mio cost would also be in place.

Flyinpiranha · Jan 22, 2015

Shintai said:
I dont think anyone was against that the python needs adjustment since its supposed to be an armed merchant and not a fighter. But its rather the way its done. As its left now the python will have to be buffed again. Remember its a very expensive ship.

I would have done any balancing in at least 2 waves. Say 10% speed and 15% shield and see how it goes. Do another 10 and 15% again if needed. Secondly people forget how limited the python is in range, fuel and repair cost. While the range is hard to change due to the mechanics. I would say a 50% cost reduction in fuel usage and repair cost would be in its place.

I assume the Imperial Clipper will also get a speed reduction. Since its way too fast as it is today.

Don't give them any ideas about the Clipper. I'm already avoiding the Python because it's a joke at the cost of running for what you'll gain now over the Clipper for a "trading vessel".

Derath · Jan 22, 2015

I think if it was in line with previous elites, It would have all the ships, the python would never had had exceptional stats and nobody would be complaining because they'd actually have a ship to desire or move towards that wasn't achievable in the first 2 hours. As it is currently they have removed a combat toy and replaced it with a trader toy, when the traders already had lots of toys in their share of the sandpit now I'm not saying its completely not going to happen - but I'd expect it to be at least 6 months until a genuine combat ship of an equivalent size turns up if not more.

I mean i'd love it to be in line with the previous Elites, but its not is it? It might be in two years but two years isn't right now.

GJ51 · Jan 22, 2015

ED is starting to look like the tax code. As soon as you figure out an advantage, they take it away...
Oh well, would have been nice to have tried one before it's early demise.
Another reason why I don't share everything I learn here in the forums - it just becomes a target for the devs to adjust.

Shanaeri · Jan 22, 2015

How would *you* Change Python

Please keep this thread constructive, and go to other threads to discuss the pros and cons of changing the Python. What I think will help FD is to list some ideas as to how to change the ship without causing a fire sale of pythons

.
Let's start off with the stated aim for Python and that is to be a heavily armed 'gun boat'.

So bearing that in mind, what would you do to make Python better fit that description. Remember keep them constructive, and give a reason for suggesting the change. Remember this is a brainstorm so there are no bad ideas

The below is the current thoughts from FD as to the changes.
33% reduction in overall shield effectiveness.

These are the actual changes proposed to the Python https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=102717&page=5&p=1593196&viewfull=1#post1593196

		From	To	% reduction
Base Shield Health		390	360	7.69

0 Pips to engines
Maximum Speed		160	140	12.50
Max Boosted Speed		280	220	21.43

Max Forward Acceleration		32	30	6.25
Max Retro Acceleration		19	18	5.26
Max Transverse Acceleration		19	16	15.79

MaxPitchRate		30	22	26.67
MaxRollRate		100	90	10.00

4 Pips to engines
Maximum Speed		250	200	20.00
Max Boosted Speed		330	280	15.15
Max Pitch Rate	38	27	28.95

Shanaeri · Jan 22, 2015

I'll kick things off.
Change 1. Make Shield cells class 3 only. This limits their use by larger ships and goes some way to making the python more vulnerable.
Change 2. Reduce the cargo capacity. It's a gunboat not a heavily armed trader.
Change 3. Nerf lower grade upgrades, but keep A grade the same. This would in effect increase the cost of having a grade A python, but would still allow progression within the current ship base.
Change 4. Change the lower class 3 pylon to a class 2 one. A slight reduction in firepower would make it less powerful in combat but not so much as to neuter it.

Flyinpiranha · Jan 22, 2015

I wouldn't. Sometimes, a person is going to have better stuff.

remosito · Jan 22, 2015

Mike Evans said:
Stat dump for those that care Just remember my percentages before were rough estimates. You might find solace or despair below:

Base Shield Health 390 - 260

0 Pips to engines
Maximum Speed 160 - 140
Max Boosted Speed 280 - 220

Max Forward Acceleration 32 - 30
Max Retro Acceleration 19 - 18
Max Transverse Acceleration 19 - 16

MaxPitchRate 30 - 22
MaxRollRate 100 - 90

4 Pips to engines
Maximum Speed 250 - 200
Max Boosted Speed 330 - 280
Max Pitch Rate 38 - 27

Thanks for the numbers!

That IS looking good! Looks like I can consider a Python again. I dislike using overpowered Iwin buttons. These new stats look way more well rounded. Looks like the Asp finally got her big brother!

Tony2438 · Jan 22, 2015

I would not change it .

GJ51 · Jan 22, 2015

I'd own one...

EDIT: I now have one. If you nerf it - I'll be going back to the ASP. What's the point? If I work at it for weeks so I can buy better gear only to have it nerfed back to not as good as what I had, why bother. The Python already is inferior to the ASP with respect to range. If it keeps getting messed with, their won't be much point in staying interested in progressing. Upgrades already cost through the roof.

Issmir · Jan 22, 2015

Paisley pattern upholstery.

Extrasmooth · Jan 22, 2015

I'd make it look like a stick that flies around hitting people.

Gavski · Jan 22, 2015

Issmir said:
Paisley pattern upholstery.

Issmir, I'm going to have to report you to the authorities: you're sick and obviously need hunting-down and killing.

anikaiful · Jan 22, 2015

How'd I change Python? Make it look more like its namesake.

Issmir · Jan 22, 2015

Gavski said:
Issmir, I'm going to have to report you to the authorities: you're sick and obviously need hunting-down and killing.

I'm trading around Eotiensis if anyone wants to put me out of everyone else's misery...

Ozrix · Jan 22, 2015

I was really enjoying the ship as it is, too bad seeing her hit with the nerf bat at the request of certain individuals. I'm curious to see how she'll handle after the patch. The numbers look pretty darn discouraging though.