Python Fighters ???

[Devari]

Ship balance should only be for ships of similar sizes. An A rated Python vs An A rated corvette or cutter should lose. piloting skill not included.

Corvette, sure, the Python should lose and it usually does. There's just not enough firepower or shield strength for a Python to take down a Corvette in the current meta and the Corvette is a relatively short-range combat specialist ship. The Python is a heavily armed multirole but shouldn't be able to take down a Corvette on its own. The issue here is that on top of that already massive imbalance, we're giving the Corvette fighters as well. Python gets to just sit in the corner.

Against a Cutter, the Python will have even more trouble getting past the shields and SCBs but the Python should be able to outmaneuver the Cutter fairly easily, so closer to a stalemate, but it's not taking the Cutter down either.

Python on an anaconda however favors the Python simply because the anacondas maneuverability. I suspect with fighters that's going to change.

Against Anacondas, the balance doesn't really doesn't need to change. The Anaconda is better at doing almost everything else the Python does, i.e., more jump range and more cargo capacity, plus against large ships the Anaconda is considerably better in terms of firepower and shield strength. The Anaconda's only real weakness is maneuverability and it should stay that way, otherwise the Python will become more of a stepping stone to the Anaconda. I expect to get my Anaconda this week so maybe my view will change after flying it but I think limiting fighters to the large ships will make them too powerful relative to the mid-large ship choices (Python, Clipper and Dropship variants). Keep in mind that you will be interdicted by Anacondas carrying fighters as well so that will be another game balance factor to consider.

 

[Zambrick]

It's apparently FD's idea of "game balance". Which means that fighters will never be properly balanced in the game, because if they are powerful to help a T9 survive they will be OP when added to a Corvette or Anaconda, and vice-versa.

There is no rational reason why a Python or Clipper couldn't fit a fighter bay. They have more than enough internal space to do so. The lack of a fighter bay door on the ship model is irrelevant, they simply added this to the T9 by making minor changes to the ship model so if they wanted the Python to launch fighters, it would launch fighters. It's just an arbitrary and poorly thought out decision by FD.

How about we put fighter bays inside of a sidewinder or a Vulture? Are you daft? Its not balance its ship design. There would be a 3 feet of extra bay that would need to protrude through the bottom of a python or through the cockpit on the top. Every single one of the ships in this game has a full interior design. This isnt call of duty or battlefield. They just dont make crap up to screw people over. The ships were designed with the express purpose for us the pilots to be able to fully walk around in them.

So please before you have diarrhea of the mouth again, just think a little bit first.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

A Python shouldn't be able to compete with a corvette anaconda or a cutter unless in packs.

Thats also very wrong seeing how an FDL flown by a halfway decent pilot can destroy 2 of those ships with utter ease.

 

[Devari]

How about we put fighter bays inside of a sidewinder or a Vulture?

They aren't physically big enough.

Are you daft?

Did you even read my post? I'm guessing no.

Its not balance its ship design. There would be a 3 feet of extra bay that would need to protrude through the bottom of a python or through the cockpit on the top.

First, you have no idea how big the fighter bay internal are because they never show you the bay size other than the door. Second, if that were the case then how exactly do fighter bays fit in the Keelback and Gunship? They both have much less internal volume than a Python or Clipper.

Every single one of the ships in this game has a full interior design.

No, they don't. As I mentioned above, you can check this with RenderDoc. Cockpit areas are designed, the rest is empty space. I can literally look into the rendered 3D models, aside from the cockpits it is empty space. You would have known this if you read my posts.

This isnt call of duty or battlefield. They just dont make crap up to screw people over.

Yes, they do. All the time.

So please before you have diarrhea of the mouth again, just think a little bit first.

Please take some immodium for your own verbal diarrhea, and maybe read my posts before replying next time.

 

[DragoonKnight]

Really FD...

You put fighters in a KEELBACK and you do not put fighters in a PYTHON...

May I say from the bottom of my heart that is STUPID... :S:S:S:S:S

Or maybe they just feel that the Python has enough going for it and do not want it to be even stronger.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

And I would just like to remind all the Python fanboys screaming their lungs out for a fighter bay.... The last time the Python was kicking     and taking names, it got hit by FD's Nerf BAT. It got hit so hard that it needed grade 5 engineer mods to recover.

FD, for all their good intentions, has not yet learned how to nerf things gently. When they bring out the Nerf bat, they get the Hulk to swing it. Is that what you want to happen again? Do you want the Python to be the best at everything once again, have a million forum complaints, and have it nerfed so hard by 2.3 that it will have trouble taking off from an outpost?

 

[Matt Harpring]

I read your posts!

You want your favorite ship, python, to do absolutely everything without any drawbacks. You want it to just barely lose to a corvette in combat, crush the anaconda and cutter, and still land on a medium pad.

If you got your wish, what would be the point of flying any other ship?

If these are things we can argue for, I want an armor buff on the imperial Courier. I too find that it has trouble taking down a corvette and it's a heavily armed maneuverable fighter, it shouldn't have any trouble taking down bigger, more expensive, and more heavily armed ships.

 

[Devari]

FD, for all their good intentions, has not yet learned how to nerf things gently. When they bring out the Nerf bat, they get the Hulk to swing it.

Did they "misplace" this particular nerf bat? Because the bat they have been swinging at the thermal shock weapons and OP heat meta has barely made a dent. Perhaps they broke their original bat by hitting the Python too hard with it, and now they're left with a small stick or something.

 

[Devari]

I read your posts!

You want your favorite ship, python, to do absolutely everything without any drawbacks. You want it to just barely lose to a corvette in combat, crush the anaconda and cutter, and still land on a medium pad.

That's a bit of hyperbole there. I agreed with the Corvette destroying it, I didn't say "just barely", it's quite a decisive win for the Corvette at the moment, even without fighters chewing on the Python's ankles. Same with the Cutter, you aren't getting through those shields with the Python's weapons either. Against an Anaconda, that ship can do everything the Python can (except medium pads) better and faster, it should have some weakness or it will turn the Python in the multirole equivalent of the Type 7. No one flies the Type 7, because it is so badly outclassed by the Type 9. Now the Type 9 is badly outclassed by everything else, but that's a different issue entirely.

If you got your wish, what would be the point of flying any other ship?

Anaconda carries far more cargo than the Python (around double depending on the loadout), it can jump much farther than the Python, it has far more utility slots and can be a better multirole ship. The Anaconda can also serve as an exploration ship very effectively while the Python can't really do properly given that it struggles to get above 30 ly jump range in most builds. If the Python is a swiss army knife, the Anaconda is an even larger swiss army knife with more tools. The issue is that the Python swiss army knife is more practical and can fit in your pocket more easily while the Anaconda is bulky and takes up more space.

If these are things we can argue for, I want an armor buff on the imperial Courier. I too find that it has trouble taking down a corvette and it's a heavily armed maneuverable fighter, it shouldn't have any trouble taking down bigger, more expensive, and more heavily armed ships.

Courier and Vulture are different issues entirely, they are small size ships and there is no real expectation for them to take down the medium-large sized ships without very good piloting. The smaller ships can also easily disengage when necessary due to their speed advantage so they can always dictate the terms of the engagement.

I don't disagree that the Python is a powerful and well-balanced ship, it's probably the best choice in the game overall at the moment for a multirole build with the exception of exploration. Giving it access to fighters however wouldn't change this, it would actually require quite a significant amount of it's cargo capacity for what would not be a massive advantage in combat, but it would stop it from being pushed further down the combat ladder relative to the large ships.

 

[Red Anders]

Literally the only thing that the Python, already comfortably the best all-rounder in the entire game, cannot do and we have a salt thread about it.

 

[Ryuto]

If we really wanted a smaller, more Python-like ship that could carry fighters wouldn't bringing back the Boa from Elite/Frontier fill that gap?

 

[CMDR Tom D]

Dude what the hell? Why is this such a pressing topic? I've seen this brought up over and over again.

Its already a vastly OP ship. No. lets not do that.

I swear all the salt and rage coming from people on this forum are from spoilt brats demanding they get more and MOAR!

 

[Matt Harpring]

That's a bit of hyperbole there. I agreed with the Corvette destroying it, I didn't say "just barely", it's quite a decisive win for the Corvette at the moment, even without fighters chewing on the Python's ankles. Same with the Cutter, you aren't getting through those shields with the Python's weapons either. Against an Anaconda, that ship can do everything the Python can (except medium pads) better and faster, it should have some weakness or it will turn the Python in the multirole equivalent of the Type 7. No one flies the Type 7, because it is so badly outclassed by the Type 9. Now the Type 9 is badly outclassed by everything else, but that's a different issue entirely.



Anaconda carries far more cargo than the Python (around double depending on the loadout), it can jump much farther than the Python, it has far more utility slots and can be a better multirole ship. The Anaconda can also serve as an exploration ship very effectively while the Python can't really do properly given that it struggles to get above 30 ly jump range in most builds. If the Python is a swiss army knife, the Anaconda is an even larger swiss army knife with more tools. The issue is that the Python swiss army knife is more practical and can fit in your pocket more easily while the Anaconda is bulky and takes up more space.



Courier and Vulture are different issues entirely, they are small size ships and there is no real expectation for them to take down the medium-large sized ships without very good piloting. The smaller ships can also easily disengage when necessary due to their speed advantage so they can always dictate the terms of the engagement.

I don't disagree that the Python is a powerful and well-balanced ship, it's probably the best choice in the game overall at the moment for a multirole build with the exception of exploration. Giving it access to fighters however wouldn't change this, it would actually require quite a significant amount of it's cargo capacity for what would not be a massive advantage in combat, but it would stop it from being pushed further down the combat ladder relative to the large ships.

I was super hyperbolic, obnoxiously so. My sincerest thanks for taking it graciously, this is like my first ever internet disagreement, I was expecting a lot worse. I think I repped you but I'm new at this and I can't say for sure. Full disclosure, never flown a Python or been interested in it, probably will never make the credits to do so. I am a Courier pilot but I'd never seriously advocate for those changes I asked for sarcastically.

I think where we disagree is in the Python relationship to the big 3. My understanding of your point of view is that you seem to see it as like a side-grade. It trades some of the bigger internals/weapon mounts for maneuverability/medium landing pad. In my opinion, it's supposed to be lower on the combat ladder than the big ships. It's actually a bonus that it can hang in with an Anaconda/Cutter, not a primary goal.

We're probably going to have to agree to disagree here, I'm sure I'm not communicating my actual thoughts very well and you're not going to be able to convince me that the best all around ship in the game needs a buff it wasn't initially intended to have.

Although if you want to get me back for all that sarcasm, I too have a ridiculous request for my Courier. You can throw all the cold water you want on it, I earned it.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/293115-Engineered-fuel-tanks

Thanks BTW this was fun!

 

[rrobes]

The "Monty" Python is already in the works, it is designed to mock and ridicule all other ships to death and will not need any fighters. CMDR Hilter is the test pilot.

Any questions are to be referred to the Ministry of Silly Walks.[haha]

 

[TartanDragon]

CMDR Hilter is the test pilot.

Nah, he was in a FdL last time I saw him.

 

[Sunsol]

I'm saying the bigger the ship. The better it should be. Piloting skill should be the only factor in a smaller ship winning against a larger one. This has nothing to do with balance. The balance was already there. This has to do with succession.
This isn't dog fighting. We have fighters for that. Otherwise what is the actual point of upgrading? Beaides Balance was thrown out the space window with engineers.

 

[Devari]

I was super hyperbolic, obnoxiously so. My sincerest thanks for taking it graciously, this is like my first ever internet disagreement, I was expecting a lot worse.

I try to save my snippy responses for the posts where I need to deal with the obstinate fanboy/white knight responses. Given that your post was at least on-topic and I understood where you were coming from I figured I'd save my scorn for other posters who needed it more.

I think where we disagree is in the Python relationship to the big 3. My understanding of your point of view is that you seem to see it as like a side-grade. It trades some of the bigger internals/weapon mounts for maneuverability/medium landing pad. In my opinion, it's supposed to be lower on the combat ladder than the big ships. It's actually a bonus that it can hang in with an Anaconda/Cutter, not a primary goal.

I don't think the Python absolutely needs fighters and I think it will still do fine in combat without them, although it will certainly be more of a challenge needing to split it's attention between a large ship and its fighters. It's more of an issue that I see fighters as a potentially interesting part of the game that it can't access and the reasons for this don't seem to be entirely consistent among the different ship types. I'm saving for an Anaconda because I like having as many options available to me as possible in the same ship and I want to use fighters for planetary exploration/scouting as well as combat so I'll need to move up to an Anaconda to do this, which is unfortunate for all the Python owners. I suppose that's the cost of still being able to access medium pads, which the Anaconda can't do.

We're probably going to have to agree to disagree here, I'm sure I'm not communicating my actual thoughts very well and you're not going to be able to convince me that the best all around ship in the game needs a buff it wasn't initially intended to have.

Actually, the idea that Python was never designed for fighters, while this was originally supposed to be a feature for the Anaconda, is a reasonable argument that perhaps the Anaconda was "underpowered" all of this time. I suppose in that sense you could argue that the intention was the Python can handle an Anaconda one on one, but that the fighters were supposed to tip the balance in the Anaconda's favor. Then again Type 9 was never designed for fighters, but now has access to them, so I suppose I find the lack of consistency a little annoying (i.e, the Type 9 gets access to fighters while the Python doesn't even though neither was part of their original designs).

Although if you want to get me back for all that sarcasm, I too have a ridiculous request for my Courier. You can throw all the cold water you want on it, I earned it.

You can't mod the tanks themselves, but you CAN put additional fuel tanks into your Courier. They take up cargo space like any other module. Usually it's not worthwhile as the mass will decrease your jump range and the space is better used by a larger fuel scoop, but sometimes it can help if you have to do long trips and you're only getting 2-3 jumps with a full tank and it allows you to get another jump before scooping.

 

[Matt Harpring]

My Internet philosophy is to never post something I wouldn't be able to say to someone's face in person. I don't think I could have been that sarcastic to a stranger right out of the gate. I honestly see this discourse as a miracle. Thanks again!

Its a little bit of a shock to me that the T9 wasn't originally meant to carry fighters. I recall hearing about a redesign semi-recently and it confused me. I've only been following the game since June of last year (first day xbox preview program). Perhaps the redesign was a foregone conclusion before I got here, but to my memory there was always talk of the T9 carrying fighters. I'm not arguing here, more like demonstrating my lack of knowledge.

I get your concerns over the python becoming the T7. I wouldn't want to see that either. Just looking at it in coriolis though, it's too useful to ever get relegated. It's got a lot more going for it than the T7, by orders of magnitude even. I mean this coming from a guy who struggles against vultures without plenty of cops around, but the fact that you can fight anyone at all in single combat with an expectation of winning these days is huge (maybe I'm garbage?). Here's hoping G5 DDs will save the day for me.

Thanks for responding about my boring fuel tank thing by the way! I'm sure I'll bring it up again somewhere else, I'm hoping in the future it becomes an engineer upgrade so I can have the capability to explore on a whim and save the internal space for an SCB or FSD interdictor. I just also think there's a lot of balance issues it could open up and vaguely feel guilty even asking for it, since it's my selfish desire to do everything in my chosen ship. I feel like there's a lot of "right ship for the right job" going on in this game and wanting my ship to do everything (as bad as i want that) goes against that spirit.

EDIT:

That whole 3rd paragraph can be succinctly abbreviated to: the python goes where the anacondon't and for that reason it will always be relevant.

 

[CMDR Dumbfries]

If the python is indeed big enough it should have a fighter bay. All this hand wringing about it's versatility is silly.

 

[Sunsol]

If the python is indeed big enough it should have a fighter bay. All this hand wringing about it's versatility is silly.

It doesn't have one so don't expect it to ever get one.

 

[CMDR Corlas]

Is "Why can't <poster's favorite ship that clearly doesn't need a fighter bay> carry fighters!?!" going to be the new constantly-spammed whine thread? Because that's going to get REALLY annoying.

 

[DragoonKnight]

Did they "misplace" this particular nerf bat? Because the bat they have been swinging at the thermal shock weapons and OP heat meta has barely made a dent. Perhaps they broke their original bat by hitting the Python too hard with it, and now they're left with a small stick or something.

I'll remind you that they already nerfed thermal shock once, but it was not enough. The process of learning to swing the Nerf Bat with just the right amount of force is not an easy one, but FD is working hard to try and get the thermal weapons in line.

My point remains, do you really want to risk the Nerf Bat being swung at the Python again?