Newcomer / Intro Question about mining with friends

[Dreepa]

So we have one guy with us that really like to just haul stuff around. And the other guy really likes to mine.
Now we are looking coop mining, so one guy is working the asteroids and the other guy wants to pick up the stuff and haul it to station.

Is there any way to do this? Because we don't see a way to give the miner 50% of the cut.

Thanks

 

[CaptKarel]

The trucker could probably pay the miner his cut in a commodity that is buyable and that could be sold easily like gold or silver.

Meet in space away but a few Ls from a station. The trucker drop the stuff and the miner picks it up and sell it at a station of his choice, drop about 20 t at a time.

 

[Tyres O'Flaherty]

If you are going to do the drop then pick up thing then, as a precaution, do it in solo mode or a private group. Also, wouldn't the miner be dropping for the trucker to pick up? I'm sure that's what you meant...

 

[Para Handy]

Do we not still have the payout to wing members? I know they mucked things up with the Oddity changing things to "teams" but surely the wing-mate trade dividend or whatever it is called is still around?

 

[CaptKarel]

If you are going to do the drop then pick up thing then, as a precaution, do it in solo mode or a private group. Also, wouldn't the miner be dropping for the trucker to pick up? I'm sure that's what you meant...

Sorry did not make it clear, did not want to over explain it.

The trucker pick up the refined minerals at the mine site from the miner or using a refinery pick up the fragments then take it to the market. With the profit from selling, the trucker buys gold equal to the value of the miner’s cut and then drop it for miner at some prearranged site. Both will need collector limpets. At least one ship will need a refinery. The trucker can also bring limpets so the miner can keep popping in and out of the ring for days or until he runs out of ammo for sub-surface or core mining.

Don’t take the profit sharing commodity back into the ring, pirates may follow you in and ruin your operation, unless you are very carefull. You could meet and swap minerals for gold at some spot outside the ring and then sell at the market, each party gets paid. The miner will have to trust the trucker to get a decent price and share the cut correctly, some good book keeping and maybe a screenshot of the selling transaction may be used to keep all honest.

I personally believe the following: trust but verify.

If well organized, a T9 or two can collect refined minerals from several mining Pythons until full and then go sell. Look at it this way, the Pythons are the diggers and sluice boxes and the T9 is the rock truck. If a group gets going you can set up one hell of an efficient mining operation and strip mine a ring in a few days and make a lot of credits. A third ship could be added to transport the minerals out of the ring, but this could complicate things and could also cause pirates join the party.

Dividends for wing-mates is only a small part and is usually only a percentage shared by all members of the wing. It does not fully equate to a proper cut if profits are shared equally.

 

[Para Handy]

....

Dividends for wing-mates is only a small part and is usually only a percentage shared by all members of the wing. It does not fully equate to a proper cut if profits are shared equally.

I seem to remember that mining in wings gave an equal split to the wing members, compared to the trade dividend which was 5%. However I cannot find any reference to that anywhere beyond my faint recollection.

It might be worth checking though as that would save a lot of faffing about.

 

[nemolomen]

Also, IIRC, trade dividends (5% of the sale) require all parties to be present in the same instance when and where the trade happens (IE: when and where the mined minerals/metals are sold)

I've never done this with mined minerals/metals, only with traded commodities. My wing/team mate and I worked a trade route together in Odyssey sharing trade dividends, and earned Elite in Trading within a day or two of each other. This was back in June of 2021 so things "may" be different now but I suspect they still work this way.

 

[d8veh]

Mining in wings is quite good fun. The way it works is that you each get the full number of fragments from a rock. I can't remember if you all have to fire a prospector limpet, but I think not - just one has to land a prospector on the rock, but all should have prospectors in order to speed up finding the high yield rocks. You get a 20% bonus in credits when you sell your stuff if you're in a wing.

Say you have three in a wing. One has landed a prospector on the rock to show that it's worth mining. Normally you'd get x fragments from the rock, but when in a wing, each person that fires lasers at the rock will cause x fragments to come out, so you get three times as many fragments to refine. It's up to the group who collects the fragments. You can share them or one person can collect them all. Whoever collects them needs a refiner to refine them into the units that you can sell, so if you go without a refiner, you can't get anything, though it is possible to transfer stuff from one ship to another as long as you're in a wing. That means dropping it and somebody else scoops it up or uses collector limpets to collect.

In summary, to do wing mining, all ships need prospectors and mining lasers. Any ship that wants to take the fragments needs collector limpets, a refinery and loads of cargo space. It is therefore possible for two or three ships to laser the rocks and one to collect and refine the fragments. Ideally the ship collecting should be nearest the rock and the other two slightly behind and aiming their lasers directly in front of the collecting ship. That makes collecting a lot more efficient.

That works out about the same efficiency in terms of earnings for three ships as doing it individually, except that only one ship gets all the money. If you do it individually, but in a wing, you get 20% more money than doing it on your own, plus a slight improvement because each pilot can shout out when they find a good rock to the benefit of others, who would otherwise have to spend time finding it.

 

[d8veh]

I forgot to mention that you can have a lot of fun making it a free-for-all regarding who gets the fragments, where everybody is pushing and shoving to get to the front to catch the fragments first. Your limpets don't care who lasered the fragments, they just go for any free one, so you can steal another player's fragments.

That brings me to another fun thing to do, which is stealth stealing fragments from other miners, where you make a very low heat DBX and use stealth tactics to get close to a miner and deploy your limpets. You can be very close without the other player knowing that you're there. Most miners don't even have weapons, but if they do, they can't chase you down because they won't be able to see where you are at normal firing range. Don't think you're going to get rich doing this. You might get enough fragments for a couple of tons if you can find a miner that doesn't know what they're doing, which is most of them luckily; however, trying to get in an instance with any random miner in open is not so easy. It's just a fun thing to try.

 

[Chris Simon]

I forgot to mention that you can have a lot of fun making it a free-for-all regarding who gets the fragments, where everybody is pushing and shoving to get to the front to catch the fragments first. Your limpets don't care who lasered the fragments, they just go for any free one, so you can steal another player's fragments.

That brings me to another fun thing to do, which is stealth stealing fragments from other miners, where you make a very low heat DBX and use stealth tactics to get close to a miner and deploy your limpets. You can be very close without the other player knowing that you're there. Most miners don't even have weapons, but if they do, they can't chase you down because they won't be able to see where you are at normal firing range. Don't think you're going to get rich doing this. You might get enough fragments for a couple of tons if you can find a miner that doesn't know what they're doing, which is most of them luckily; however, trying to get in an instance with any random miner in open is not so easy. It's just a fun thing to try.

Next time a newbie miner is complaining about low yields, at least we know who's to blame.

 

[Dreepa]

The goods to buy in order to exchange money as a work-around seem to low in value. It would require several runs, and then also a base that accepts the commodity at a good price.
I don't see that being practical, but a time intense annoyance.

Sad face.
Mining / hauling seperation in team play was such a big thing in EVE Online. Peculiar decision by Frontier to not support it properly.

 

[d8veh]

The goods to buy in order to exchange money as a work-around seem to low in value. It would require several runs, and then also a base that accepts the commodity at a good price.
I don't see that being practical, but a time intense annoyance.

Sad face.
Mining / hauling seperation in team play was such a big thing in EVE Online. Peculiar decision by Frontier to not support it properly.

What's the problem? The hauling guy can make 100 mil an hour just collecting the fragments while the other two mine. Is that not enough for you? I thoght that's what you wanted.

 

[Dreepa]

What's the problem? The hauling guy can make 100 mil an hour just collecting the fragments while the other two mine. Is that not enough for you? I thoght that's what you wanted.

The issue was about sharing profit when the hauling guy sells at the market.

 

[Demonlord79]

So we have one guy with us that really like to just haul stuff around. And the other guy really likes to mine.
Now we are looking coop mining, so one guy is working the asteroids and the other guy wants to pick up the stuff and haul it to station.

Is there any way to do this? Because we don't see a way to give the miner 50% of the cut.

You can always dump half cargo evenly, but just make sure ship dumping doesn't have active limpets or just close cargo bay.
Can also get dividends from each other as well...

 

[aRJay]

The goods to buy in order to exchange money as a work-around seem to low in value. It would require several runs, and then also a base that accepts the commodity at a good price.
I don't see that being practical, but a time intense annoyance.

Sad face.
Mining / hauling seperation in team play was such a big thing in EVE Online. Peculiar decision by Frontier to not support it properly.

I think comparing different games with different histories from different companies is not the way to an enjoyable playing experience, it might be important for critics but not while playing.

I don't think there is a mechanic in this game that will let you do what you want, you might get close if one of you has a carrier then you could buy and sell to each other via that, otherwise it is just dropping and collecting cargo with the role swapping round to even things out.

 

[Dreepa]

I think comparing different games with different histories from different companies is not the way to an enjoyable playing experience, it might be important for critics but not while playing.

I don't think there is a mechanic in this game that will let you do what you want, you might get close if one of you has a carrier then you could buy and sell to each other via that, otherwise it is just dropping and collecting cargo with the role swapping round to even things out.

True.
Though it got to be said that me and my friends had mostly frustrating experiences trying to do stuff together.
Be it the topic of this thread, or realizing you cannot have a wing while a gunner is in your ship, or not being able to outfit your ship with someone else present, not seeing the same signals and instances in the system even when in group play, etc. etc.

I guess it is what it is. So forgive me if I got a bit annoyed, because that is exactly how I felt. Annoyed by spending evenings with friends trying to do stuff in the game that it doesn't support. So in the end, when you say "it is not important while playing" it hits the nail on the head. We didn't get to play. That was exactly the issue.

That being said, thanks for helping out and giving some possible workarounds.

 

[Para Handy]

.... not seeing the same signals and instances in the system even when in group play, etc. etc.
....

That is what wing beacons are for (so you can be in the same "instance").

 

[Dreepa]

That is what wing beacons are for (so you can be in the same "instance").

Yeah, but since 2 ppl wanted to do multicrew, we thought, if wing is not possible, just come by the system in our group play. I thought that's what group play is for. To be in the universe with your friends and do stuff. Not sure what group play's purpose is, but ok.

So we thought 1 ship goes multi crew and then the other just jumps to us and we fly around a bit, check signals (since missions are only possible in a wing) just to find out that the other guy sees different signals.

Well anyway, just telling the story of our experience here. And today I am just not going to play, maybe I get some more motivation after some time has passed.

 

[Para Handy]

Yeah, but since 2 ppl wanted to do multicrew, we thought, if wing is not possible, just come by the system in our group play. I thought that's what group play is for. To be in the universe with your friends and do stuff. Not sure what group play's purpose is, but ok.

So we thought 1 ship goes multi crew and then the other just jumps to us and we fly around a bit, check signals (since missions are only possible in a wing) just to find out that the other guy sees different signals.

Well anyway, just telling the story of our experience here. And today I am just not going to play, maybe I get some more motivation after some time has passed.

I can see that that could discourage you. Trouble is, bringing expectations into a game can produce that sort of disappointment. Learning the game (warts and all) then allows you to adapt your expectations to hopefully find some sort of engaging activities.

Good luck

 

[Dreepa]

I can see that that could discourage you. Trouble is, bringing expectations into a game can produce that sort of disappointment. Learning the game (warts and all) then allows you to adapt your expectations to hopefully find some sort of engaging activities.

Good luck

To be fair, those expectations are set up by Elite being a multiplayer game. When there is a market standard for something with a certain tag, expectations towards that standard are inevitable.