Question for HOTAS Users - Any Issues with Repetitive Stress or Fatigue

I too have FM, which as the OP is well aware, sucks.

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In the end, FM is such a personal condition, that one size never fits all. I hope you can find a comfortable solution o7

Yes, it is. As I mentioned in an earlier post, my cousin has it worse than I do. She had a major flare up last Friday and spent the whole weekend on her couch. Oddly, when she isn't crippled by FM, she has about 10 times the energy I do and gets more done in a day than I could in a week. A lot of people have it worse than I do, so I'm thankful my FM isn't that bad.

As for your stick recommendation, my friend has the same stick as you and I gave it a quick try before getting the X-52. I just didn't like the feel of it.

I will give the HOTAS another try over the weekend. If I still find it fatiguing, I will probably exchange it for an Xbox One Elite controller that one of the other posters suggested. I've had great success with the 360 controller over the past two years. This Elite controller adds several more buttons, which is what I really need. I still won't have the precision/finesse of a HOTAS, but I think I can live with that.
 
I was not even aware the Xbox One Elite Controller existed. It adds just enough buttons to take of the few things I couldn't get mapped on the 360 controller. I'll have to give this some thought. Thanks.

My pleasure! :)

Those extra paddles on the underside allow you to fly combat without having to change hand positions or move your thumbs from either stick the entire time. Its provides a very solid, high quality version of a traditional 360 or XB1 controller experience. Add the optional chatpad I mentioned, and you have a fully backlit mini "qwerty" keyboard right below your control surfaces.

Just imagine a high end version of the XB1 controller, complete with ALL METAL joystick gimbals, fully adjustable trigger curves, stick control curves, choice of TWO D-Pad inserts, and three solid metal joysticks of varying heights and pad contours (3 for each stick) plus far too many other quality of life improvements to mention here. :)

Considering how much gaming I do on a daily basis, the $130.00ish I spent on this thing was hands down the smartest gaming related hardware investment I have ever made. The fact that even after 2 years of heavy use, it still feels the same as the day I bought it, should speak volumes for anyone who is currently on their 3rd, 4th or even 5th standard controller in the same space of time. :)

I give it 6 stars out of 5 without hesitation.
 
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You might get some pain using the flight stick during intense fights - since it can be a strain, especially with fibromyalgia. The biggest question is whether or not you can use an interchangeable rig that can put your stick/throttle on arm-rests to give you better ergonomic and comfort. The thing I find stresses my arm the most is the flight stick with the twist rotation, and also because my desk/chair isn't a great combination right now, and because it's not attached to anything (like the desk or chair) so I have to use it in such a way that it doesn't lift off the table mid-fight. This causing me issues would translate to probably having the same - if not worse - effect for you. Is there anyone that you can borrow a similar stick from and perhaps try it in different configurations and positions?

Those are good suggestions. That's why I was thinking of getting this tray from Amazon for better positioning. That's not an investment I would mind making to prevent long term fatigue - say something that would set in after an hour or two of play. But with it becoming noticeably bad in just 10 minutes of normal flight, and really bad in a firefight, I don't think a slight position change is going to help.

Also, sadly, there is no way I could mount the throttle/stick to the arms of my chair. I'm betting if the tray wouldn't help, the arm mounts wouldn't either since they both should be at the same level.

Thanks for your suggestions, though.
 
Thrustmaster Warthog. Lots of flight time over the last… over two years now...

Heavy base helps keep things stable. Stick is a bit stiff so gives the arm muscles a real work out. With all the flying I go I don't have to lift at the gym anymore.

Seriously. Took a little getting used to. But not uncomfortable

Now a few intensive hours gaming with a mouse. That can hurt if I don't take regular breaks.
 
Those are good suggestions. That's why I was thinking of getting this tray from Amazon for better positioning. That's not an investment I would mind making to prevent long term fatigue - say something that would set in after an hour or two of play. But with it becoming noticeably bad in just 10 minutes of normal flight, and really bad in a firefight, I don't think a slight position change is going to help.

Also, sadly, there is no way I could mount the throttle/stick to the arms of my chair. I'm betting if the tray wouldn't help, the arm mounts wouldn't either since they both should be at the same level.

Thanks for your suggestions, though.

You can spend far less to test the assumption:

Ikea Poang chair + a 25mm shelf + a saw + 2 C-clamps + 4x 100mm m6 thread bolts (with wingnuts) + a drill with a 6mm bit.

That should cost about $150.
 
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The answer to your question is exceptionally simple:

Any activity you perform over and over again has the chance to induce RSI. It makes no difference if you're using a HOTAS, a DS4, a mouse, a musical instrument, etc.
 
Now I know this might look idiotic, feel free to laugh (can't beat my wife's reaction)...

Yeah, I know that feeling. My darling wifey's reaction to finding me wearing an EdTracker velcro'd atop my Hyper-X headset whilst barking commands repeatedly into an unresponsive (and now retired) VoiceAttack was probably heard in the next county. Good job she missed the fishnets and high-heels, hidden by the desk..... ...too much?.... I'll get me coat...

p.s. nice idea +1
 
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The Venn diagram of people who actually play games with a HOTAS and have either repetitive stress issues/chronic fatigue is probably so small that I feel dumb even asking, but here goes...

I have fibromyalgia. Fortunately, my chronic pain is nowhere near as bad as most sufferers of it, for which I'm thankful. Mine is more fatigue (which comes and goes) than anything. And occasionally, if I play keyboard/mouse games too much, I have to abstain from game playing for a week or two before that pain will go away.

I currently use a Xbox 360 controller with my PC to play Elite Dangerous, which I started playing back in 12/2015. I've been thinking of buying a HOTAS (particularly the Saitek X52) for some time now, but I'm concerned that I might get fatigued quickly using those controls. I remember finding a Thrustmaster flight stick to be tiring; however, that was 20 years ago and it was only tiring when I tried to use it for normal joystick games and not a flight sim, like Falcon 3.0.

Anyway, I was hoping someone in a similar situation could give me some feedback. I'd hate to plunk down the $$$ for a HOTAS and then find out I can't use it because it wears me out/causes pain.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

I don't think it will cause a single problem. Off topic but have you been checked for Chiari Malformation? I was diagnosed with fibro for a few years but it was later found to be Chiari after an unrelated MRI and a surgical operation pretty much fixed it.
 
Yes, when I had a twist grip. Much better now that I have rudder pedals. The Warthog stick is pretty damn heavy, though, if one were to go that way, so it may be quite hard on some wrists even without twist.

Z...
 
I have carpal tunnel problems severe enough to preclude me using a mouse at work - I alleviate this by using a finger operated trackball (the thumb operated types make it worse, not better) and careful positioning of it so that my hand and wrist are always relaxed when operating my pointing device...

It depends on the HOTAS and its placement.

Firstly, your HOTAS must fit your hand. Before you even think about plugging one into your computer, test both components for "fit". With each controller in turn, start by resting your hand on it with the controller in neutral position. No deflection on the stick, throttle at midpoint. Move your hand around a little without deflecting the control. You're looking for a natural and relaxed hold on the controller that has you "holding" it but not "gripping" it. If you need tension in your fingers or thumb to keep your hand there, that's not the position you're looking for. You want your hand and digits to be touching the controller and as relaxed as possible, exerting little or no pressure on it. If you can find such a position, make a note of it, because it will factor into how you might mount the controllers at your gaming rig. If you can't find any such position for your hands, try other HOTAS models until you find one that you can get as close as possible to this ideal with. Fortunately, you're still likely to have more than one choice at this stage.

Next, with your hands in that relaxed and neutral position on the controller, operate every control on the device and see if any of them present awkwardness or strain. For controls mounted on the stick or throttle you really want them all to be easy and natural actions. For controls on the device bases you want to be able to operate them and return your hand to that neutral position without awkwardness. With the throttle, repeat this test at the two extremes of throttle travel. With the stick, repeat this test at the extremes of each axis (including twist, if present) and with deflections on a combination of axes but ignoring any controls mounted on the stick base - you'll always be returning to neutral/center after taking your hand off the stick to operate those so you don't need to worry about them at extreme deflections.

Finally, "swirl" the controls - moving the stick and throttle through their full range of motion in all axes - VERY SLOWLY. If its not a strain to do this, then you're not going to tense up from long periods of fine control. Indications of problems are if you can't do this particularly slowly while keeping your hand relaxed. You are most likely to encounter issues with a stick twist than other axes on this test but if that's not particularly severe it's not a deal-breaker. On any of the other axes it is a more significant issue.

If you get this far, you'll have one or two candidates for your new HOTAS. When you get over the "OMGSQUEEESHINY!!!!!!!" from unboxing your choice, make sure you mount it such that when your hands are in that relaxed/neutral position on the controllers and you're sitting in your usual position for playing, your arms and shoulders are relaxed. If you don't, all that testing for fit won't help you, the tension will either flow down into your hands or up into your neck and upper back and after a long game session you'll be feeling it. Sit in your usual gaming position with the unconnected HOTAS in your lap and just relax. Put your arms in a neutral relaxed position. Now pick up the controllers, letting their bases dangle, and put your arms back in that relaxed posture. Wherever the bases of the controllers are dangling, that's where you want to mount them. Engineering of chair and desk, I leave as an exercise for the reader ;)
 
Thrustmaster Warthog. Lots of flight time over the last… over two years now...

Heavy base helps keep things stable. Stick is a bit stiff so gives the arm muscles a real work out. With all the flying I go I don't have to lift at the gym anymore.

Seriously. Took a little getting used to. But not uncomfortable

The stick extension takes care of that fyi as well as precision for minor control adjustments since a large motion on the extended stick results in a smaller movement in the sensors.

imho for Warthog owners it is well worth using an extension and looking into the "gimball sticktion fix".
 
Thrustmaster Warthog. Lots of flight time over the last… over two years now...

Heavy base helps keep things stable. Stick is a bit stiff so gives the arm muscles a real work out. With all the flying I go I don't have to lift at the gym anymore.

Seriously. Took a little getting used to. But not uncomfortable

Now a few intensive hours gaming with a mouse. That can hurt if I don't take regular breaks.

Unfortunately for what the OP suffers this is not a very good idea. In fact, it is a very bad idea.
 
Saitek X52 pro hotas, logitech G13 gameboard, oculus rift. No issues at all, ever, but I've been sat in an office chair all day every day, all my life (no I'm not obese, amazing!), so I guess I'm used to it, your mileage may vary.
 
Also, sadly, there is no way I could mount the throttle/stick to the arms of my chair. I'm betting if the tray wouldn't help, the arm mounts wouldn't either since they both should be at the same level.

This isn't actually the case - I use VESA AV pole mounts to place the bases of my CH hotas in front of and below the level of the armrests, pretty much level with my knees. The grips are therefore exactly in the resting positions of my hands on the arm rests, and my shoulders are in a neutral position. Placed on the desk, I had to lift my shoulders to hold the hotas grips, and started getting shoulder pain. It's gone away now it's in an ergonomic position.

BTW, for SRV piloting, I use the somewhat unorthodox combination of pedals: steering, pedal toe brake: thrust, CH throttle ministick: pitch/roll thrusters, main joystick: turret. Perhaps this would reduce your hand workload in most situations too?
 
I also have Fibro and use a CH hotas setup and use the area near where the thumb would be as a yaw method.

I get pains across the top/back of my throttle hand and when i had an X55 the twist yaw made my other hand hurt as well.

The issue with Fibro is everyone seems to get it in varying degrees of either fatigue/pains in back/shoulders or many other symptoms ranging from -

the feeling of having spilt something warm down your leg when you havent
hyper sensitive skin where a slight brush along it sends you jumping in the air but a heavier touch doesnt
shivers all down my back and legs
dizzyness and perception problems
jelly legs
etc

So what may work for one may not work for another, its a difficult one.
My hotas isnt in the best of positions which doesnt help, but since the government cut my monies i presently cant afford to change this.

If your getting along well with the pad then i would stick with it and add a small keypad or something along those lines to help with button presses etc, my memory is an issue, not sure about yours but if so then maybe something like this can help -

Game_Commander_CP_-_Elite_Dangerous_Edition_large.JPG
Game_Commander_GD001-DT-ED_large.jpg
 
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Fine here mate, although long periods of twist for yaw can hurt my aging wrists. Aside from that better than a mouse and far better than a joypad for me. Well worth the cash Id say.
ohh and srv. with a hotas, awesome

I play for hours with no u due strain.
Hotas is good as speed can be set and left.
I have the thustmaster TF. Has many buttons.
Best feature for me is it can sit on my lap while i lounge on sofa.
Twist control is a bit stiff and some buttons on throttle can be hard to reach.
But on whole it's very relaxing to use..
SRV controls I use waggle of stick rather than twist bit.
Oh and it's pretty big.
 
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I got RSI if that is what you call a pain in the thumb these days using my T flight hotas. I was pushing hard for elite in combat and had thrust on the hat which I assume was the reason. Recently I upgraded to a T1600 and with the extra hats on the throttle now only use the joystick hat for pips which has improved things no end
 
If your getting along well with the pad then i would stick with it and add a small keypad or something along those lines to help with button presses etc, my memory is an issue, not sure about yours but if so then maybe something like this can help -

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...lite_Dangerous_Edition_large.JPG?v=1498227881 https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0..._Commander_GD001-DT-ED_large.jpg?v=1498227881

Please, please stop posting stuff I want to buy!
 
I have hand pain and quite poor motor skills,with my fingers as a result I play very few games on the PS4 Pro, because controlling using the thumb sticks is a lottery and R1/R2/L1/L2 are just a recipe for pain. I have just ditched ED PS4 for that reason. On the PC I have an X52, this is brilliant, there are many points in game where I can take my hands off the controller and flex them. In fact ED is the perfect game for a middle aged man with bad hands and when opportunity allows I can play for hours at a time. I also toyed with Voice Attack for speech control, but found it didn't work so well because I play in the main lounge and don't want a headset on.
 
I don't think it will cause a single problem. Off topic but have you been checked for Chiari Malformation? I was diagnosed with fibro for a few years but it was later found to be Chiari after an unrelated MRI and a surgical operation pretty much fixed it.

Thanks for the tip and I'm glad to hear that your problem was corrected. I just did a quick web search on Chiari Malformation and the symptoms don't seem to fit. I have few, but not enough that I think this is the issue.
 
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