Question on shield strength vs Mass

[Heater]

What effect does the Optimal / Max Mass have on the over shield strength have?
Example:
A cutter with the following config: 8A shield generator with a full laden mass of 2,421.6 tons,
The 8A shield generator has an Optimal mass of 1800T, and Max mass of 4500 T

http://coriolis.io/outfit/imperial_...f.Iw18ZZA=.EwBjYZhYEY-iikRlKMQBZMiA?bn=cutter

Then the Same config with a 6A shield generator:
Optimal mass of 540T, and Max mass of 1350T

http://coriolis.io/outfit/imperial_...f.Iw18ZZA=.EwBjYZhYEY-iikRlKMQBZMiA?bn=cutter

I know the 8A are stronger etc….
But what is the effect of the Mass of the overall strength?

 

[777Driver]

Shield strength is only calculated on base mass. Cargo/Modules etc have no effect

 

[Andovar]

So i'm playing around on coriolis.io and have a similar question.
What happens if i add enough cargo to my ship where i exceed the max mass rating on the shields? Do they go offline?

 

[MarkAusten]

So i'm playing around on coriolis.io and have a similar question.
What happens if i add enough cargo to my ship where i exceed the max mass rating on the shields? Do they go offline?

No. The actual strength of your shields is set by the actual mass of your ship and the optimal mass of the shields. If the actual mass of the ship is larger than the optimal mass of the shields then the actual strength of the shields is reduced from the base strength. Likewise, if your actual mass is less that the optimal mass of the shields then the shields will be stronger.

If you want the maths for this, see here.

 

[Andovar]

No. The actual strength of your shields is set by the actual mass of your ship and the optimal mass of the shields. If the actual mass of the ship is larger than the optimal mass of the shields then the actual strength of the shields is reduced from the base strength. Likewise, if your actual mass is less that the optimal mass of the shields then the shields will be stronger.

Thanks for the info.
So then the max-mass criteria just determines whether you can equip them at all? Meaning if your base hull mass exceeds the max-mass value on the shields, they're a no go, right? laden/unladen values don't effect shield levels?

 

[Ziljan]

Not mentioned yet, so I'll chime in:

If the maximum mass is exceeded by adding cargo mass, then your shields will actually deactivate. Figured this out on my T-7 the hard way about a year ago.

 

[TuxedoSteve]

Thanks for the info.
So then the max-mass criteria just determines whether you can equip them at all? Meaning if your base hull mass exceeds the max-mass value on the shields, they're a no go, right? laden/unladen values don't effect shield levels?

Yes, if a ship's base hull mass is higher than the max mass of the shields you will not be able to equip them at all, with cargo, fuel, and equipped modules having absolutely no effect on the strength of a particular shield.

 

[CMDR Kantos Kan]

No. The actual strength of your shields is set by the actual mass of your ship and the optimal mass of the shields. If the actual mass of the ship is larger than the optimal mass of the shields then the actual strength of the shields is reduced from the base strength. Likewise, if your actual mass is less that the optimal mass of the shields then the shields will be stronger.

If you want the maths for this, see here.

"actual mass of your ship"? Is this the base mass or the laden mass (with modules, cargo, etc.)? @777Driver seems to imply that the shield strength is calculated on the base mass of the ship (or on the hull I guess?), not on the actual mass. I played a bit on coriolis.io and edshipyard.com and adding cargo racks doesn't seem to change any shield strength value, unless I'm missing something. I'm confused...

 

[Andovar]

Not mentioned yet, so I'll chime in:

If the maximum mass is exceeded by adding cargo mass, then your shields will actually deactivate. Figured this out on my T-7 the hard way about a year ago.

Yes, if a ship's base hull mass is higher than the max mass of the shields you will not be able to equip them at all, with cargo, fuel, and equipped modules having absolutely no effect on the strength of a particular shield.

Ok, so this is where i'm getting a bit confused. My expectation was what Ziljan mentioned. Loading up on cargo to exceed max mass rating would disable the shields.

I guess we have 2 things going on here:
1) shield strength is based on the ratio of ship base mass to shield optimal mass rating
2) shield functionality ceases if ship laden mass exceeds shield mass max rating

Am I correct here?

 

[MarkAusten]

Thanks for the info.
So then the max-mass criteria just determines whether you can equip them at all? Meaning if your base hull mass exceeds the max-mass value on the shields, they're a no go, right? laden/unladen values don't effect shield levels?

When you try to equip your ship with a shield generator that is too small for the actual mass of the ship you will see a message that says something to the effect that hull mass exceeds maximum value and you won't be able to select that generator. I think the same thing will happen if you try to equip your ship with something that would put the mass ship over of the max value on the shield. The same warning I think. It's been a long time since I've done it, but I think that is correct.

In effect, the outfitting screen will not let you either over-burden the shield generator fitted or fit a generator that is too small.

I think that this is correct. No doubt someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[TuxedoSteve]

"actual mass of your ship"? Is this the base mass or the laden mass (with modules, cargo, etc.)? @777Driver seems to imply that the shield strength is calculated on the base mass of the ship (or on the hull I guess?), not on the actual mass. I played a bit on coriolis.io and edshipyard.com and adding cargo racks doesn't seem to change any shield strength value, unless I'm missing something. I'm confused...

The mass calculation for shield strength is calculated using the ship's hull mass only. So for example, when outfitting a ship on coriolis.io, under the mass section there is 3 stats, Hull, Unladen, and Laden. The hull stat never changes on the same ship type, only between ships (An Anaconda has a 400 tonne hull, a Cobra Mk.III has a 180 tonne hull, etc.). That hull stat is what is used to calculate shield strength. Therefore adding any mass with modules, or cargo will not change shield strength and will not be able to exceed the maximum mass of a shield generator. Unladen is the Hull + Modules, and Laden is Hull + Modules + Fuel + Cargo

 

[MarkAusten]

Ok, so this is where i'm getting a bit confused. My expectation was what Ziljan mentioned. Loading up on cargo to exceed max mass rating would disable the shields.

I guess we have 2 things going on here:
1) shield strength is based on the ratio of ship base mass to shield optimal mass rating
2) shield functionality ceases if ship laden mass exceeds shield mass max rating

Am I correct here?

I don't think No. 2 is the case any more. When you fit cargo racks now the calculations on the max mass shield values are driven as though the cargo racks are full. If you had a shield with a max value of 500t and your ship's mass was 490t then the outfitting screen would not allow to fit a 16t cargo rack or greater since that would over-burden the shield generator.

I know that you cannot fit a shield generator that is too small for a fully laden ship.

But as I said, I stand to be corrected if necessary.

 

[TuxedoSteve]

I beg to differ. Read this article here. If the actual hull mass is greater than the optimal mass rating of the shield then the actual strength of the shield is reduced. And vice-versa.

The article says exactly as I do. In the presented calculation it uses the Ship Hull mass, which is the assigned, fixed mass given to each ship that cannot be changed. If the hull is too heavy for a specific generator then the shield strength will be reduced, or you will no be able to equip it at all if the hull mass is higher than the max mass of the generator. But without changing ships the shield strength of a certain generator will not change depending on the modules and cargo equipped, as that has no relevance to the Ship Hull Mass.

 

[MarkAusten]

"actual mass of your ship"? Is this the base mass or the laden mass (with modules, cargo, etc.)? @777Driver seems to imply that the shield strength is calculated on the base mass of the ship (or on the hull I guess?), not on the actual mass. I played a bit on coriolis.io and edshipyard.com and adding cargo racks doesn't seem to change any shield strength value, unless I'm missing something. I'm confused...

Mike Evans, of FDev, gave the following example in a post :

A C2 shield generator has 28t 55t 138t mass curve and modifier limits of 1.5 to 0.5. So being at 28t would give you a modifier of 1.5 to base strength. Being at 138t would give you a 0.5 modifier to base strength. Being somewhere in between would be a linear interpolation of those values and 1.

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The article says exactly as I do. In the presented calculation it uses the Ship Hull mass, which is the assigned, fixed mass given to each ship that cannot be changed. If the hull is too heavy for a specific generator then the shield strength will be reduced, or you will no be able to equip it at all if the hull mass is higher than the max mass of the generator. But without changing ships the shield strength of a certain generator will not change depending on the modules and cargo equipped, as that has no relevance to the Ship Hull Mass.

Yes, it does, you are correct. I must be tired.

 

[Andovar]

I don't think No. 2 is the case any more. When you fit cargo racks now the calculations on the max mass shield values are driven as though the cargo racks are full. If you had a shield with a max value of 500t and your ship's mass was 490t then the outfitting screen would not allow to fit a 16t cargo rack or greater since that would over-burden the shield generator.

I know that you cannot fit a shield generator that is too small for a fully laden ship.

But as I said, I stand to be corrected if necessary.

Seems coriolis.io does let you equip racks and modules well beyond the max mass rating of the shield.
https://coriolis.io/outfit/asp/2pgtgFgljdgsof5--1717------0504400202002h.Iw18WQ==.Aw18WQ==

I guess the only way to know for sure is to go home tonight, put a class 3 shield on my Asp, and load up on biowaste, and see what happens.

 

[MarkAusten]

Seems coriolis.io does let you equip racks and modules well beyond the max mass rating of the shield.
https://coriolis.io/outfit/asp/2pgtgFgljdgsof5--1717------0504400202002h.Iw18WQ==.Aw18WQ==

I guess the only way to know for sure is to go home tonight, put a class 3 shield on my Asp, and load up on biowaste, and see what happens.

Coriolis and Shipyard are not Elite. Go to Elite, buy a ship, put in a small generator and then try to overload it by buying a shed load of cargo racks that would, if full, be more that the max value of the generator. I'd be interested to know if the outfitting screen with let you do that anymore.