Engineers Quick question about new engineering

MAUXUS

MAUXUS
I'm not sure if it's just me being confused but in the past whenever I had already reached G5 with an engineer, I could just go back anytime and apply the same G5 mod to a different ship/different module. Is this no longer the case? I just visited LAKSAK to apply G5 Thermal Resistant mod to a brand new shield generator and I have to start from G1, go through G2, G3 and G4 before I can do G5, even though I was here yesterday with the same ship but a different shield generator (bi-weave) and went through the conversion process for this module. The biweave was legacy, so I understand perhaps that I need to convert, downgrade 1 class and work my way up but why do I have to start all over now, when the only thing that changed is the module I'm trying to upgrade? Is this normal?

P.S. I'm trying to apply Thermal Resistant G5 mod to a set of brand new, non-legacy, previously unmodified 7A shields and I'm supposed to already have access to G5 Thermal Resist but I'm prompted to start from G1.
 
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MAUXUS

MAUXUS
Thanks for confirming straha20.

To FD: I'm taking my conda back to Irandan and will put back my old, already engineered bi-weave shields. I think I'll take a break from engineering for a while, if every time I need to engineer a module I have to start from G1 and work my way up. That's even more mats that we have to collect than the old system (mats for G1 + mats for G2 + mats for G3 + mats for G4 + mats for G5, for every new module?!?). Hel1 no. Especially considering that some mats are very hard to find, without even considering bugs that can happen every now and often, which make finding mats impossible (i.e High Grade USS).
 

MAUXUS

MAUXUS
Krash said:
The new system is 10x easier than the old even with this progression requirement.

To fd: carry on.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I fail to see how is the new system easier. To me all I see is that with the old system, once I had unlocked G5 for Thermal Resist Shields at an engineer, I could come back at any time and, provided I had the mats for G5, I could upgrade another shield generator module without having to go through G1 to G4 again. Now I am forced to start from G1, even if I have previously unlocked G5 to upgrade a different shield generator module. That means I have to grind for, and be in possession of the mats for G1, 2,3 and 4, not just G5 like it used to be, for every single module I want to mod? What am I missing? How is it easier? There's definitely more grinding involved, that's for sure. And more having to rely on RNG gods to smile at you (yeah, good luck with that), as well as Bug gods not to interfere with your search for mats.
 
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Krash

Krash
straha20 said:
5. Every roll guaranteed improvement over the last.
Click to expand...

I hesitate to even call these "rolls" anymore. Its more like "generations". The OP's feedback makes me wonder if he has really used the new system at all. We can now have "God Mod" with a fraction of the materials it took under the old system.
New system:
G1: 1 mat (1 gen)
G2: 2 mats (1 gen)
G3: 3 mats (2 gens)
G4: 3 mats (4 gens)
G5: 3 mats (1 gen) 4 more gens to get closer to God Mod. I usually stop at 1 gen unless its a special ship with a special need for this mod.

The old system was an exercise in frustration in which i was never willing to spend more than 5-10 rng rolls on the off chance i "might" get the God Mod (and i never did).
 

Bob Lighthouse

Banned
Bob Lighthouse
To be fair I had the same misgivings before I'd actually used the new system.
I'm on record here saying as much, and my generous serving of crow is mighty delicious!
The new system is a vast improvement.
 

MAUXUS

MAUXUS
I've used the new system on my conda to convert the legacy G5 Thermal Resist Shields on my bi-weave shields. It was reverted by one class and I then upgraded it back to G5, using collected required mats (god mod=no more upgrades available?).
I went back there later on with the same conda but a different shield generator (non bi-weave) because I wanted to mod it to Reinforced instead, to test if it works better against the 'goids (more total MJ: 3800 instead of 2400 with biweave G5 thermal). But didn't have the mats. So I opted for Thermal Resist instead. It should still bring total MJ up higher to 3000 (vs 2400) because it's a non-biweave.
Was expecting to go directly to G5 but the new system requires you to start from G1. I had the mats for G1 and G2, and when I got to G3 I realized I was missing selenium. Checked G4 and saw I was missing mercury as well, if I am not mistaken.
That meant i had to get the conda back to an orbiting station with shipyard available, call the Asp, wait 30 minutes for delivery, take the asp to planets where I could farm selenium and mercury, which only RNG god knows how long that will take. All this for a second choice.
I gave up on first choice due to the HGE USS bug which makes it hard to find imperial shielding. I tried for 2 hours in the morning and 3 in the afternoon and only saw two HGEs (proto heat radiators and pharma isolators).
I'm just frustrated. I never felt this frustrated with a game and I've been a gamer since the 90s.
Unfortunately, I don't know anything about developing video games, so the only thing I can communicate to FD is the way I feel, as an ED gamer.
I will look into the material trader, maybe that will ease up my pain.
Thanks for the replies.
 
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Bob Lighthouse

Banned
Bob Lighthouse
Once you have enough mats to go to G5, pin the blueprint and apply the appropriate experimental effect when you go to the engineer base.
That way in the future, even if it's only on a G1 mod, you won't have to go back.
You can finish the mod and engineer fresh modules at remote workshops.
You just cannot convert legacy mods or apply special effects remotely.

You'll also need to account for more rolls at G3-5.
It might take up to 10 or 11 at G5 to max it out, but 6 will get you most of the way there.

Don't forget the mats for your experimental effects!
They're listed on INARA.

You can farm some high level raw mats at the crashed Anaconda in Orrere, and trade those down or laterally for what you need.

https://canonn.science/codex/orrere-crashed-ship/
 

Krash

Krash
Bob Lighthouse said:
Once you have enough mats to go to G5, pin the blueprint and apply the appropriate experimental effect when you go to the engineer base.
That way in the future, even if it's only on a G1 mod, you won't have to go back.
You can finish the mod and engineer fresh modules at remote workshops.
You just cannot convert legacy mods or apply special effects remotely.

You'll also need to account for more rolls at G3-5.
It might take up to 10 or 11 at G5 to max it out, but 6 will get you most of the way there.

Don't forget the mats for your experimental effects!
They're listed on INARA.

You can farm some high level raw mats at the crashed Anaconda in Orrere, and trade those down or laterally for what you need.

https://canonn.science/codex/orrere-crashed-ship/
Click to expand...
^^^this^^^ finding arsenic used to be a major pain in the *** for me. Now I find the L5 raw material at a crash site and trade down for arsenic, which is like 27 arsenic for 1 L5 mat. This approach works for all the mats, whereas the trick is finding the L5 of that category.
 

Bob Lighthouse

Banned
Bob Lighthouse
These images* are very handy:

gVR178H.jpg

pE9B8O2.jpg

glORREr.jpg


If you want Arsenic, one should look for a planet mainly with Polonium and Mercury, for example.


* from this thread: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/405498-Material-Trader-Helper


This is very nice too:
https://inara.cz/galaxy-nearest/25/367/
 
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MAUXUS

MAUXUS
Great information here thank you guys. I bit the bullet today and forced myself to try engineers again.

Main Objective

Fight Thargoids in Irandan

Secondary Objectives

1) Replace G5 Thermal Resist Bi-Weave Shield Generator on Anaconda with regular Shield Generator (non-bi-weave) and mod this new shield generator to G5 Reinforced.
2) Replace mods on 3 out of 7 Shield Booster with Resistance Augmented (the other 4 will stay Legacy Heavy Duty).

Start time: 11:10am PDT (Left Irandan with Asp)
End time: 10:00pm PDT (Came back to Irandan with Asp and inititated transfer of Anaconda back to Irandan: add additional 48 minutes for transfer so, new End Time: 10:48pm PDT)
Actual game time: ~5 hours (this is the actual game time after removing breaks)

Although it's easier to engineer modules after the addition of Material Trader and Remote Workshop (love the remote workshop!), I still think it takes way too long. I think that engineering should only take a fraction of your game play. In my case I only wanted to engineer the Shields and 3 Shield Booster and it took all of my game time for the day. With a brand new, un-engineered ship I can see how this would take multiple sessions. I'll have to postpone fighting Thargoids to tomorrow.
IMHO, engineers took my excitement for today about fighting Thargoids and turned it into a disappointing gaming day, since I didn't get to do what I set out for at the beginning of the day. Things could be improved if:

1) Material Traders were positioned at all Engineers bases, instead of just different systems around the galaxy away from engineers bases. After all, if I were a Material Trader, I would want to set my shop where most people interested in trading materials are (eng. bases).
2) Another improvement would be to allow all Material Traders to trade all materials (encoded, raw material and manufactured) so that we don't have to hop back and forth between systems like mad rabbits.
3) Also for L5 mats it doesn't really make sense to give up on another (or multiple) L5 mat(s) in material trader. That's just too many important mats to have to give up on, which you will eventually need for the next upgrades anyway. So I ended up searching for the L5 mats the old way and only used the "material trader way" to complement it (like the last 2 or 3 additional ones I needed for each mat). But at least now we have more choices when the RNG Gods don't want to work properly, or if there is a bug that prevents the right USS to spawn.
4) USS are still time consuming and frustrating.
5) I don't see why, if you have already unlocked G5 Heavy Duty Shield Boosters once for example, you have to start from G1 again if you want upgrade a different Shield Booster module.

Primary Objective: Incomplete
Secondary Objectives: Complete
 
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Mike Reacher

Mike Reacher
Krash said:
I hesitate to even call these "rolls" anymore. Its more like "generations". The OP's feedback makes me wonder if he has really used the new system at all. We can now have "God Mod" with a fraction of the materials it took under the old system.
New system:
G1: 1 mat (1 gen)
G2: 2 mats (1 gen)
G3: 3 mats (2 gens)
G4: 3 mats (4 gens)
G5: 3 mats (1 gen) 4 more gens to get closer to God Mod. I usually stop at 1 gen unless its a special ship with a special need for this mod.

The old system was an exercise in frustration in which i was never willing to spend more than 5-10 rng rolls on the off chance i "might" get the God Mod (and i never did).
Click to expand...

I had a good Grade 5 Mil grade shield on my python.
Decided to go the new system with it.
I had Enough mats to work on a new ship. So i thought.
I had 25 Tungsten. (As well as the other stuff) And used it all!
Selene Jean started me out on grade one, and the grades used more and more rolls to get the ticks (which I suppose is the max)
And to slowly work up to max grade 5 I was rolling again and again to move up one point.
Grade 5 took 5 rolls to max out and it is 98% Hull strength improvement. Hull Boost I mean.

MY OLD grade 5 was 123% hull boost. Why does this new system give you less when all and sundry seem to say it gets better.
Also, got an updated upgrade at for a grade 5 multi-cannon. It started at grade 4 not grade one. (Different to the shield)
And it's improvement was 23% greater than standard.
What the heck. The old pre-updated gun was improved to 123%. 23% improvement.
See what I'm saying here? Shield is less than the old and the gun has no improvement.
 
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MAUXUS

MAUXUS
On second thought:

I took my newly engineered Shield Generator to a fight with a 'goid. I just couldn't bare to have to wait until tomorrow. Well, initial results are not promising. G5 Thermal Resist on Bi-weave (my original shields) seem to be performing better than the new G5 Reinforced regular shields (the mod I spent the all day for). Just preliminary results though, will confirm later on. Main reason is that although the Reinforced take a little longer to go down, they do eventually anyway and they stay off for most of the rest of the fight (even after a reboot). That means more Hull/Module damage with shields down. This is with Fast Recharge experimental effect on shields and Thermo Block experimental effect on the 3 Resist Augmented shield boosters (the other 4 boosters are G5 heavy duty, no experimental effects).

G5 Thermal Shields I go back to base after a fight with a 'goid with 48% hull (or as high as 77% on a good day)
G5 Reinforced Shields went back to base with 28% hull

The next step would be to try a Bi-Weave with G5 Resist Augmented. But it takes too long with the engineers currently to experiment with different configurations, so I don't know. We'll see...
 
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Bob Lighthouse

Banned
Bob Lighthouse
Mike Reacher said:
I had a good Grade 5 Mil grade shield on my python.
Decided to go the new system with it.
I had Enough mats to work on a new ship. So i thought.
I had 25 Tungsten. (As well as the other stuff) And used it all!
Selene Jean started me out on grade one, and the grades used more and more rolls to get the ticks (which I suppose is the max)
And to slowly work up to max grade 5 I was rolling again and again to move up one point.
Grade 5 took 5 rolls to max out and it is 98% Hull strength improvement. Hull Boost I mean.

MY OLD grade 5 was 123% hull boost. Why does this new system give you less when all and sundry seem to say it gets better.
Also, got an updated upgrade at for a grade 5 multi-cannon. It started at grade 4 not grade one. (Different to the shield)
And it's improvement was 23% greater than standard.
What the heck. The old pre-updated gun was improved to 123%. 23% improvement.
See what I'm saying here? Shield is less than the old and the gun has no improvement.
Click to expand...


I'm pretty sure G5 HD armor with the deep plating special is 149%

Did you add the special effect?

That said, that's the whole reason they implemented grandfathering; it's *assumed* that some legacy modules will be better than the new engineering system.

If you're unsure, don't convert and make a new module instead.
Easy peasy.

You can also ask people here beforehand, or check EDSY.
They've already updated their engineering info.
 
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