Racing pedals, Shifter and dual Joystick. Opinions, Feedback? (I just started ED)

[Krzywousty]

Hey all, I want to get some feedback to see if there's anything I'm missing or if it really comes down to personal preference. I've tried to find similar threads with a set up like mine, but I haven't been able to, so I'm looking for your opinions, hate, insults for being an anarchist, etc. whatever you feel like sharing.

I just started playing ED and it's my first "fly sim". I come from Sim Racing, so I have a lot of racing oriented gear. For me, immersion is first, so mouse + keyboard where not an option even if it has better accuracy, and I play in VR. After some research, I bought two T16000 and attached them to my racing rig as I felt it worked better for what I wanted to do.

My goal was to avoid having to take my hands away from the joysticks during combat, but that it was Ok in more "calm" situations. I mostly do bounty hunting, so my binds are bias towards that type of game-play. I ended up with the following:

Right Joystick:
y axis: Pitch
x axis: Yaw
Trigger: Primary Fire
z axis: Nothing as I wanted my main trigger hand without a twist action.
Hat: Up-target front / Down- target next ship / Right- target next hostile/ Left- target previous hostile
Left Button: Power to Systems
Right Button: Power to Weapons
Middle Button: Power to Engines

Left Joystick:
Trigger: Secondary Fire
y axis: Up/Down Thrust
x axis: Left/Right Thrust
z axis: Roll
Hat: Up-target next sub-system / Down-target prev sub-system / Right-next fire group / Left- previous fire group
Left Button: Use Shield Cell
Right Button: Use Chaff Launcher (I'm actually not using this yet, but the bind is there)
Middle Button: Engine Boost (I'm actually not using this yet, but the bind is there)

Racing Pedals + Shifter:
Gas: Forward Thrust
Break: Hold + Gas Reverse Thrust
Clutch: with the clutch pressed, I can re-bind all the buttons to different functions (It works like a clutch
1st Gear: Deploy Landing Gear
2nd Gear: Deploy Hardpoints *I have them to come out with the trigger as well, so I only need it to store them back in
3rd Gear: Turn Lights On
4th Gear: Toggle Frame Shift Drive
5th Gear: Cockpit Mode Change
6th Gear: Free

*The clutch is important because by pressing it I can bind all the Joystick buttons again to other functions without having to take my hands off the joysticks.

I stop here as it I think the idea is already pretty clear, but I'll leave a few notes below. I'm looking for feedback on something I may be missing or benefit I would get from a different set up, an example could be "you should use your left joystick for throttle as you will be able to turn faster".

Notes:

• I play with flight assist off and have done so from the beginning. I do all the docking and Frame Shift Drive myself as it helps me get used to the controls.
• The wheel is right in front of me and it's great for driving the SRV, I can drive with one hand and use the turret with a joystick.
• I have a racing button box on the way that will give me even more buttons, and my racing wheel in front is full of buttons that are free right now. I want to test on/off switches to re-bind the same buttons to other functions (like I'm doing with the clutch).
• There's something to be said about pulling a metal shifter to engage the FSD, specially on a sequential shifter configuration.
• I'm not using any of the Joystick base buttons, I wish they didn't exist and the base had a narrower profile.

Finally, I wish I could split the forward backwards thrust axis in half so the break pedal works as an analog backwards gas pedal. If anyone knows how to do this, please share!

*Happy to share a picture and a list of the gear I'm using if anyone is interested.

 

[Krzywousty]

I understand that is the gear you currently own, but the in-game bindings for that stuff is going to make you mad trying to set it up.

The controller bindings in Elite are written for specific controllers. I have a Saitek (Logitech) X-55 HOTAS, which is a "Stick" and a "Throttle". The in-game bindings for this are already set up for convienent use and work for most users. Everything on the stick is for flight dynamics and weapons/power management and everything programmed to the throttle is for speed, thrust, landing gear, cargo scoop and menu navigations.

Being new to the game as you are, the one thing you lack is in-game experience with one set of controllers to know what you need to program to your gear.

It is possible to set the in-game bindings to your hardware, but the controllers available do not include steering gear, cluch gear or shifting gear. You may get some use out of the two joysticks, but I doubt the bindings will support anything but the axises on the racing pedals or the shifter being seen as more than a few buttons.

The problem is that Elite wants to identify a controller as one it is programmed to use, and racing pedals and shifters are not in there.

I have been playing for six years, and even with the standard recognized equipment I have and knowing what all the switches and buttons do, it still drives me bonkers when I try to troubleshoot why a switch is not doing what it should do or what I want it to.

Your equipment is built for racing and it does that fine. If you want to play Elite and become a good combat pilot or be able to drive a ship properly, you need flight gear, not racing equipment. It's going to be a nightmare trying to use racing gear in this game as controllers.

Thanks for the quick feedback! It's very true that I'm new and hence why I'm asking for feedback.

In all honesty, I haven't had any problems to bind my gear at all. Shifters are essentially buttons at the end of specific travel and friction, so once the button is pressed, they behave like any regular button and my experience is that they are completely supported (also, you don't need to press the clutch to "change" gears). So from a "does it work not" perspective, they work as good as any button on a HOTAS. But I can see how a true pilot or Flight Sim player would scream Herecy! and burn me in the pyre. (also, teh gas pedal axis works like a charm).

My view was that there's no "standard" to how space ships controls should look like, so my question was aimed towards experienced flyers on whether they see something missing in my controls that would not allow me to do something important with them. Or that there's an actual measurable benefit of a different set up, like "you can turn faster if you do this" but that I cannot with my existing set up.

And just to be very honest here, I'm not advocating for these controls, they work for me. I do not expect them to feel comfortable or "look right" to anyone else.

 

[DNA-Decay]

You'll get used to anything.
Just give it a tweak now and then.
I've got somew weird bindings, but they're good for me.

 

[WR3ND]

You might be surprised what I can do with a contemporary game pad controller. I have it set up similar to model hobby aircraft radio gear (left stick yaw and throttle, right stick roll and pitch). Now if I could just get the motion control working for head-look with a button press, that'd be cool, but I manage with the d-pad.

Yeah, I'm one of those lounging couch monkey types playing my main PC on the big screen and surround hi-fi. Been doing that for about 20 years now. Same speakers, but the TV is a fair bit nicer.

Anyway, taking the time to learn the controls and setting them up the way you like is my best recommendation on the matter, regardless of gear.

Cheers.

 

[[VR] Orodruin]

Most people would put roll on the right stick x-axis and yaw on the right stick z-axis. This is a rather natural setup as it puts all of the rotational degrees of freedom on the same joystick with a natural mapping. I have the T16000m HOTAS and having a twist action on the stick with the fire controls really does not bother me. I would suggest backing up your current bindings and giving it a go. Most people flying HOSAS would bind all of the thrusters on the left stick axes, but if your racing pedals work for you then go with that.

My main issue with the T16000m is the low number of buttons on the actual stick and having 12 buttons you need to remove your hands from the stick to use.

 

[Marbat]

I got the T-Rudder and couldn't be happier if you plan on changing from racing pedals.

 

[zaikoji]

You'll get used to anything.
Just give it a tweak now and then.
I've got somew weird bindings, but they're good for me.

That desk? Console? Is sweeeet

 

[Krzywousty]

Thanks for all the awesome replies, gives me confidence that I'm not the only one trying out weird set ups. I don't want to change it much as I want it to be viable for both sim racing and ED. I'm not married to these button bindings, so I will try out changing the roll binding and everything proposed...

One thing I won't change though are the pedals, love them and I feel racing has already given me the feet sensibility for throttle and I feel very comfortable using my feet for that.

Here's a couple of pictures of how it all looks:

 

[Krzywousty]

You'll get used to anything.
Just give it a tweak now and then.
I've got somew weird bindings, but they're good for me.

that looks awesome!

 

[Krzywousty]

You might be surprised what I can do with a contemporary game pad controller. I have it set up similar to model hobby aircraft radio gear (left stick yaw and throttle, right stick roll and pitch). Now if I could just get the motion control working for head-look with a button press, that'd be cool, but I manage with the d-pad.

Yeah, I'm one of those lounging couch monkey types playing my main PC on the big screen and surround hi-fi. Been doing that for about 20 years now. Same speakers, but the TV is a fair bit nicer.

Anyway, taking the time to learn the controls and setting them up the way you like is my best recommendation on the matter, regardless of gear.

Cheers.

That makes so much sense, you are already using two sticks with model hobby aircraft radio gear, there's really no need to change... and I believe you, people do amazing things with just a game pad. The wife would kill me if I don't use headphones, so no surround hi-fi for me.

"Now if I could just get the motion control working for head-look with a button press, that'd be cool, but I manage with the d-pad." I'm not exactly sure this would work for you, but I'm using the clutch essentially as an "activate" something. ED allows for dual button press combos, so there are some buttons that do something different when I have the clutch pressed... maybe you can do the same so that head-lock works only when you are pressing a button? (I've never used it, so what I'm saying may not make any sense...) just trying to share what has worked for me.

 

[WR3ND]

That makes so much sense, you are already using two sticks with model hobby aircraft radio gear, there's really no need to change... and I believe you, people do amazing things with just a game pad. The wife would kill me if I don't use headphones, so no surround hi-fi for me.

"Now if I could just get the motion control working for head-look with a button press, that'd be cool, but I manage with the d-pad." I'm not exactly sure this would work for you, but I'm using the clutch essentially as an "activate" something. ED allows for dual button press combos, so there are some buttons that do something different when I have the clutch pressed... maybe you can do the same so that head-lock works only when you are pressing a button? (I've never used it, so what I'm saying may not make any sense...) just trying to share what has worked for me.

That's how I have it set up now for the d-pad actually. Normally I use the d-pad for horizontal and vertical strafing thrust. Makes landings a bit easier, and I like to think it helps in combat.

It's just a weird controller thing. The controller has motion sensitivity, but I'm not sure how to use it, or if I even can in Windows or the game. The controller is a cross-platform Bluetooth controller. No worries though; not meaning to derail your thread. I was just musing about it.

Cheers.

 

[Shiro Akai]

TBH it all comes to personal preferences (and budget). Some people play K+M, other use gamepad. There are people with cheap sticks (used to have that in my setup - Logitech 3D Pro), there are ones who have top end gear (full Warthog stick and throttle or Virpills). I'm in the lower middle ground with Logitech X-52 Pro and I must say it works almost perfectly for my needs.

Ofc there are also people with dual stick setup and people like you who use gear they own - in your case it's racing setup. If you managed to bind all the buttons and switches to your liking it's just a matter of practice and developing muscle memory. In general there is a bias toward stick and throttle (totally justified since it's flying sim and there's nothing more immersive than piloting with a stick and throttle) and your hardware utilizing racing pedals and shifter is... unorthodox.

But you know what they say: if it's stupid but it works, it ain's stupid. Again - if it works for you, do the job and you have no problems with it, why bother. I just can try and convince you to get a HOTAS. I started with 3D Pro, played for two years with it and then upgraded to X-52 Pro. Aimed for X-56 Rhino but back then it had massive quality and reliability issues so decided to go after older and cheaper one. Still mighty fine piece of gear. Had to re-learn how to fly but now - I can't imagine playing ED without it.

 

[Krzywousty]

TBH it all comes to personal preferences (and budget). Some people play K+M, other use gamepad. There are people with cheap sticks (used to have that in my setup - Logitech 3D Pro), there are ones who have top end gear (full Warthog stick and throttle or Virpills). I'm in the lower middle ground with Logitech X-52 Pro and I must say it works almost perfectly for my needs.

Ofc there are also people with dual stick setup and people like you who use gear they own - in your case it's racing setup. If you managed to bind all the buttons and switches to your liking it's just a matter of practice and developing muscle memory. In general there is a bias toward stick and throttle (totally justified since it's flying sim and there's nothing more immersive than piloting with a stick and throttle) and your hardware utilizing racing pedals and shifter is... unorthodox.

But you know what they say: if it's stupid but it works, it ain's stupid. Again - if it works for you, do the job and you have no problems with it, why bother. I just can try and convince you to get a HOTAS. I started with 3D Pro, played for two years with it and then upgraded to X-52 Pro. Aimed for X-56 Rhino but back then it had massive quality and reliability issues so decided to go after older and cheaper one. Still mighty fine piece of gear. Had to re-learn how to fly but now - I can't imagine playing ED without it.

Thanks! The only reason I didn't buy a HOTAS is that like you said, I knew I had the muscle memory on my feet for using them for throttle. This may sound weird, my setup is what felt most natural to me... but I do agree I come from a different place than most fly sim players. This may not work at all for an atmospheric flight simulator, but I'm sure I'm not going to do that, hence why I went with the dual joysticks that (at least in my head) match the gas and break pedal.
I'm actually looking forward to Star Wars Squadron in VR, and that may be the only other game I play of the "flight simulator" kind.

 

[Shiro Akai]

Heh, one case where your racing setup will make lots of sense and your racing experiance will pay off is...

SRV.

Keep your steering wheel close as it may come handy. Maybe after some you'll share more about playing with that kind of setup. I'm just curious how such weird contraption behaves. Until then,

My cheers to you, Mr Bolesław the 3rd
<wink wink>

 

[Krzywousty]

Heh, one case where your racing setup will make lots of sense and your racing experiance will pay off is...

SRV.

Keep your steering wheel close as it may come handy. Maybe after some you'll share more about playing with that kind of setup. I'm just curious how such weird contraption behaves. Until then,

My cheers to you, Mr Bolesław the 3rd
<wink wink>

Oh yeah! I tried it already, it really works great. I can drive with one hand and the pedals while controlling the turret with the other hand on one of the joysticks. I know it sounds weird, but it is working quite well for me.

I just always wonder if there's anything I'm missing since I don't have any flight sim experience. I'm definitely not the best to judge the setup and say, "yeah... this works awesome"... I'm having no trouble at bounty hunting, I clearly still lack some skills, but seems to me that is not because I'm missing something in the controls... which is where I was going with my questions to the community.

gotta love that in the polish way, the name has 10 letters and there's only 2 vocals

 

[Hairychest]

Controls are personal and muscle memory and familiarity have already been mentioned as key points. You don't particularly want to change that muscle memory as you may find it screws with your racing performance.

If it works for you (and it appears to be) then go with it.

I'm a flight simmer so X52 Pro HOTAS and throttle is natural to me and doesn't screw my simming muscle memory...

 

[Shiro Akai]

I just always wonder if there's anything I'm missing since I don't have any flight sim experience.

Prior experience is not needed. In fact, in some cases, it may even be bad since you will rely on things that aren't in ED. Flying is like racing but you have one more direction to cover with your controls. Well, also handy are strafe movements (up/down and left/right, some will add also forward/backward but that's mostly throttle if set correctly). 6 degrees of freedom (6DOF) gives you more options and you must start thinking in 3D. Since you have no flying experience it may be easier for you to get things right as you just learn them on the go.

I played space sims in my youth and getting into ED was frustrating sometimes as I remembered how other ships behaved and how sluggish in comparison ED ships are. And many will tell you that your actual performance is based on hardware you use - especially when you upgrade from cheap stick to anything better. When i moved from 3D Pro to HOTAS I spent liek a week or two just learning how to start and land - that different it was.

So just take your gear, do missions, develop new muscle memory, tweak the buttons and enjoy.

 

[Krzywousty]

Controls are personal and muscle memory and familiarity have already been mentioned as key points. You don't particularly want to change that muscle memory as you may find it screws with your racing performance.

If it works for you (and it appears to be) then go with it.

I'm a flight simmer so X52 Pro HOTAS and throttle is natural to me and doesn't screw my simming muscle memory...

Yup, thanks! That was my line of thought. Seems I'm not missing out on anything critical, maybe just over-complicating my life, but I can live with that

 

[Krzywousty]

Prior experience is not needed. In fact, in some cases, it may even be bad since you will rely on things that aren't in ED. Flying is like racing but you have one more direction to cover with your controls. Well, also handy are strafe movements (up/down and left/right, some will add also forward/backward but that's mostly throttle if set correctly). 6 degrees of freedom (6DOF) gives you more options and you must start thinking in 3D. Since you have no flying experience it may be easier for you to get things right as you just learn them on the go.

I played space sims in my youth and getting into ED was frustrating sometimes as I remembered how other ships behaved and how sluggish in comparison ED ships are. And many will tell you that your actual performance is based on hardware you use - especially when you upgrade from cheap stick to anything better. When i moved from 3D Pro to HOTAS I spent liek a week or two just learning how to start and land - that different it was.

So just take your gear, do missions, develop new muscle memory, tweak the buttons and enjoy.

Very true about the gear. Any photographer will tell you that gear does not make a photographer... it helps, but nothing replaces skill.

It is fun for immersion though, and as I don't have all the time in the world for this anymore, when I do have time, I like to enjoy good gear. So, if I stick with this, the T16000 will definitely be replaced by something better. While I'm happy with the joysticks, I really don't like how wide the bases are and I don't use any of those buttons.

 

[iSteel]

I personally use the T.16000 stick and the FCS throttle. Pinky finger on the throttle is "shift" button so all other buttons can have secondary activities. I do not need to take off my hands from controllers. I have had Logitech gas/break pedal to control yaw, but as I always needed to take it away and back I have left it out and use the stick z-axis for yaw.

I think with throttle you would have more controls on your fingertips rather than what you now have with secondary stick.

There is by the way very good tool to map your controllers, at least for most of the normally used ones for ED.
Forum post here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threa...ence-card-of-your-controller-bindings.464400/

And as an example my own reference card from some time back: https://edrefcard.info/binds/myiwsw